Advice/suggestions on tig welders for home

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I posted a thread a while back asking pretty much the same question, but I have been looking around more and more for a machine to use at my house. I am looking for an AC/DC machine that can do both GTAW and SMAW. The machines I have looked at are the miller Syncrowave 200 and 250, the Thermal Arc 200. I have also looked at the miller diversion series. I want this machine just to practice and do small projects around the house. I've seen some syncrowaves for around 2500 in good shape. The diversion and thermal arc machines are around that brand new. I'm just looking for some more suggestions on these and any other machines that would be good.
Reply:The Diversion is stupid easy to learn on. The 180 diversion can run on housecurrent also. If you think you need something beefier, look at the Syncrowave series, but you will need a whopper of an electrical service.You probably guessed I am an inverter guy.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:That definitely was something being taken into consideration. The only 220 outlet is our dryer. Do you have any idea on how much it costs to have a 220 outlet put in? The only disadvantages for the diversion is the lack of smaw. That's where the thermal arc comes into play but that also requires 230v.
Reply:In addition to the Syncrowave 200, you should keep an eye out for a used Syncrowave 180.The way I look at it, you will need a 220 outlet in your shop no matter what welder you get, and it will not cost that much more to put in 50 or 60 amps vs. 30 amps.  The labor is basically the same, no matter how many amps you install. The alternative is to use your dryer outlet and a long extension cord, which would work for an inverter welder.I am with you that you want stick for sure, for thicker steel.   Of course, used transformer welders for stick are often available for under $200, but you need 50 to 60 amps for them also.To me, it makes sense to put in a 50 or 60 amp 220 outlet, then you can run whatever welder or other equipment you like.If you want a good basic TIG, without spending a lot of money, it is hard to beat a used Miller Syncrowave 180 or 200.  I have owned both, both are good.   Both have High Frequency, AC and DC, so you can weld any metal, including aluminum.  Both include stick and TIG.  The original version of the Syncrowave 180 is arguably better for beginners, as it has minimal controls, three switches and one knob, simple to use.  The  later version of the 180 (180SD) added an AC balance knob and digital displays.   The 200 has lots of bells and whistles, including pulse, which I like for thin copper.   The 180 is a little smaller, but both are relatively big and heavy, around 200 pounds.  Figure on at least a 50 amp 220V circuit for either welder, which is what I use.  Some recommend a 60 amp 220V breaker. I bought the 200 for $1300, too good a deal to pass up, and then sold my Synchrowave 180 for $1150.   The 180 price that I got was probably higher than average, and the 200 price that I paid was lower than average, so I did very well, paid only $150 to upgrade.Anyway, for somewhere between $900 and $1500, you can buy a used Syncrowave 180 or 200, and have a welder that will probably serve all your needs for decades.   If you buy used, and you decide you need a bigger or fancier welder down the road, you can get almost all your money back when you sell it.  You will take a big depreciation hit if you buy a new welder and sell it later.  With these Syncrowaves you can TIG weld any thin metal up to about 3/16 inch, and you can stick weld any steel 1/8 inch or thicker.   I used the 180 as a stick welder for months before I got around to buying an argon bottle.  Some report that the 180 had a higher than average repair rate, but my original version 180 gave me no trouble.I am not a big fan of the Miller Diversion because it lacks stick.  Stick is what you need to weld thick steel.   The Dynasty is a great welder, but way too much money unless you have to have easy portability, or need 110V.   (Note that a 20 amp 120Volt outlet will only run a welder at very reduced power, so 110V operation is not that great an advantage).    If you need portability, you could consider a Thermal Arc 186 AC/DC, maybe half the price of a Dynasty.  The Miller EconoTIG looks good on paper, but a Miller factory guy said that it was not that great, that the Syncrowave 180 was a much better machine.  Lincoln makes the Square Wave 175, and Precision TIG 225, similar to the Syncrowaves, look for a used Lincoln as a possible alternative.  The Thermal Arc 185 or 186 AC/DC are possible alternatives, inverter welders at reasonable prices.  Many if not most inverter welders are DC only, so you can’t TIG aluminum.  (Examples:  Multimatic 200, XMT series, Maxstar series, the new Thermal Arc multi-process welders, Lincoln V350 and C300, etc.)   The Chinese machines from Longevity and Everlast have an attractive price, but resale value, reliability, and support are concerns.Note that many inverter welders, such as the Dynasty or Invertec series, do not come standard with a TIG torch, regulator, and foot pedal, so they are even more expensive than they look at first glance.  The Syncrowaves come with everything you need except a gas bottle.  The welder manufacturers are pushing their inverter machines, but it is hard to justify the much higher cost, especially when you can find a used Syncrowave for not much more than $1000.  They have sold a lot of Syncrowaves, so you should be able to find a used one if you look.Just for comparison, a new Syncrowave 200 retails for $2900, a new Dynasty 200DX with torch, regulator, foot pedal, etc., retails for $4680.   On the used market, the Dynasty 200 welders are hard to find, and priced around $3000.   The Syncrowaves are easier to find used, and priced right.The Syncrowave 250 is an industry classic, a great machine, but big and heavy, and more expensive.  It should probably have a 100 amp 220V circuit, especially if you want to get full power out of it.  The 250 is just more welder than most folks need, unless you need to TIG 1/4 inch thick aluminum.Sculptures in copper and other metalshttp://www.fergusonsculpture.comSyncrowave 200 Millermatic 211Readywelder spoolgunHypertherm 600 plasma cutterThermal Arc GMS300 Victor OA torchHomemade Blacksmith propane forge
Reply:I wish the diversion had smaw. I think I'm just going to have to suck it up though. I'm going to college right now and living with my parents so I can't see forking out even more money to get the 220v outlet. Tig is the main one I want to work on. How would a syncrowave work if I used the dryer outlet with an extension cord?
Reply:If I had a choice I would choose the syncrowave 200 or 250. The only problem is the outlet issue. Portability isn't that much of an issue so the bulk of then isn't much of a factor. Most of the syncrowave on craigslist that I have seen are in the 2500 to 3000 with some going even higher than that. I haven't seen any diversion out there.
Reply:A dryer outlet is 30 amps.  A range is 50.  The extension cord you'll need will have to be made by pretty heavy wire.  It will be the same wire needed to run a regular 220 outlet to your shop, so you're best off having the circuit run.  It won't cost that much more.  Ask the electrician to buy some extra wire to make you an extension cord for within your shop also.Your best bet is a 100 amp subpanel in your shop.  You won't ever be limited then.  You can shop around and pickup a Syncro 250 and never need another machine.  The bigger old tranny machines need from 60-100+ amps of service.  Sometimes they're cheaper because of this.If you're looking for an inverter cause you wanna run on 110v, you must realize that what you'll be able to do with it will be extremely limited.  The output will be less than if run on 220.  You won't be welding alot of 1/8" aluminum on 110.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:M_, regarding the question of putting power in your shop, Drf gives you sound advice.  100 amp sub-panel in the shop would do you well.  Call an licensed electrical contractor in your area to come out and give you some advice and prices to do the work, he is an professional and will help you with your decision and will do the work to NEC standards, cheap insurance in the long run.  These are just my thoughts and experience when it comes to electricity.  Regarding the choices of welders, I have a Thermal Arc Arcmaster 200 AC/DC and like it.  I do not weld for a living. The welder does everything I need to repair,build, etc. Best  Bob
Reply:What type of material and thickness will you be working with ? A option maybe the Miller Maxstar 150 STL stick and tig machine. We have some at work and they are amazing.  It depends on duty cycle too, but this machine maybe just the ticket.http://store.cyberweld.com/mitigwema1504.html  I am not  a fan of the diversion either. I got a used Miller 180 SD for $800.00. Nice machinewith all the goodies. You can find deals but takes time. If you find it you gotta go now ! The other guy is doing the same thing.
Reply:If you are stuck with the 30A dryer outlet, I'd suggest the Thermal Arc 186 AC/DC.  Max input current is  about 35A for stick and 32.5 for TIG."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Originally Posted by Drf255A dryer outlet is 30 amps.  A range is 50.  The extension cord you'll need will have to be made by pretty heavy wire.  It will be the same wire needed to run a regular 220 outlet to your shop, so you're best off having the circuit run.  It won't cost that much more.  Ask the electrician to buy some extra wire to make you an extension cord for within your shop also.Your best bet is a 100 amp subpanel in your shop.  You won't ever be limited then.  You can shop around and pickup a Syncro 250 and never need another machine.  The bigger old tranny machines need from 60-100+ amps of service.  Sometimes they're cheaper because of this.If you're looking for an inverter cause you wanna run on 110v, you must realize that what you'll be able to do with it will be extremely limited.  The output will be less than if run on 220.  You won't be welding alot of 1/8" aluminum on 110.
Reply:Originally Posted by OldendumIf you are stuck with the 30A dryer outlet, I'd suggest the Thermal Arc 186 AC/DC.  Max input current is  about 35A for stick and 32.5 for TIG.
Reply:Do you guys have any reviews on the TA 201ts?? From what I've seen from reviews this machine can get pretty good power off of 110v outlets. It has tig and stick but its not an AC/DC machine but I have to work with what I can get. This machine is a little over 1000 on cyberweld. If I could I would want the 186 but getting the outlet put in isn't going to happen. I'm 19 and live at my parents still so I think the 201 will work but what do you guys think?