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I haven't welded in around 25 years, but I've dragged my 1970's Union Carbide buzzbox (that I bought right after HS) around with me for the last 35 years or so without using. I've dusted it off, cleaned out the spider webs, and am planning on using it to build a push sled for my son (college athlete) for leg training.The main problem is that I don't know what rod to use to weld 2x2x3/16 A500 or A501 tube (clean/new). I was going to try 1/16" 6013, but my machine only goes down to 40A. I used 1/16" many moons ago to weld a new sheetmetal floor in my CJ5 with this welder, and I remember the rod heating up too much. Blew a lot of holes in the floor, too, as I recall.So 3/32" is probably better, but reading everything I can, there seems to be a lot of disagreement over 6011 vs 6013 vs 7014, at least from what I can tell. 7018 would end up in the trash since I'm not going to buy or make a rod oven. I just want to make decent looking welds with minimal practice. Structural demands are light, so even popcorn welds will be functional for most of the joints. Since I've already spent more than I wanted just to get started (or restarted), I'd rather not buy a bunch of different rods and experiment. I also don't have much steel to play with. Not yet, at least. By the time I'm done, I could probably just buy a new push sled, painted and with a nifty label on it, but where's the fun in that? So what rod would you think is likely to give me the best result with my limited equipment, skills, and practice material?Oh, and here's a pic of my little welder. I've never seen another like it, so I thought I'd post it strictly for prurient interest.
Reply:Originally Posted by tkanzlerwhat rod to use to weld 2x2x3/16.
Reply:Thanks, Rick. I have a Tractor Supply nearby, which carries 1 lb tubes of Hobart rods. For about $6 each, I can try a couple of sizes.Two for two, by the way. Thanks.
Reply:Originally Posted by tkanzlerTwo for two, by the way.
Reply:My Lincoln Electric chart shows 3/32" 6013 running on AC at 75 to 105 amps. For 3/16" tube, you would probably be nearer the higher end of that range. I would forget about the 1/16th inch electrodes for something that thick. You'd be burning through those too quickly and the weld would be too small without sufficient penetration.
Reply:Thanks, IB. I'll try it.Where did you get the chart, by the way? I've seen charts showing recommended current ranges for various types and sizes of rod, but nothing to match it up with sheet and plate thickness.
Reply:Forget about using 6013. ReallyWhen bridging gaps (like you'll have on butt joints) 7018 does a better job.When you fill a gap with one pass using 6013 it will heat the dickens out of the metal with very little penetration. It'll actually blow through faster than 7018 when working thin edges on tubing. It responds poorly to the rod manipulation necessary to fill a wide gap, piling metal instead of giving nice smooth hot fills (if that makes sense to you)I use an inverted "U" sorta like a reverse horshoe to fill gaps. The rod never leaves the face of the puddle, and the puddle is pushed back as I progress. It isn't quite whipping, and not quite weaving. It's a technique unique to us at Uranus Inc. Try that with 6013 and all you have is a highly convex bead with little penetration on the toes.7018 is available in an AC version, and it's not much more than regular 7018 price wise. It strikes nicely, and runs well. Perfect for your machine.Well, that's my humble opinion anyways "Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I think Farmersamm has some good advice. 6013 would be a good rod on something thin if you had DC and were welding electrode negative.For AC I have found 7018 or 7014 make the prettiest welds. You don't have to worry about a rod oven with 7018 unless you are welding low carbon steel and then you would need to dry any moisture out to get rid of the hydrogen. The 7018 works well with AC and the 7018 AC rod works even better. I like the 7018 rod by Lincoln sold at Lowes. They also make a good 7014.
Reply:I thought low hydrogen 7018 had to be kept in a rod oven. That's what I'm trying to avoid. And yes, there will be a sort of flare groove on two opposite sides of every joint, with fillets at the other two. Just the nature of tube. Actually a bit of an air gap, as you suggest, on the flared sides.I also thought 6013 was very forgiving of hacks (like me). Now I'm really confused.
Reply:Low hydrogen rod like 7018 does have issues with moisture. For code work it needs to be stored correctly, but your project doesn't require welds of that level. After that it's really a question of how much moisture they have absorbed. On hot humid days or damp drizzly ones you may find the rods weld erratic. Also if they have been exposed to high moisture they may have issues later. I've used leftover 7018 rods taht have been just kept in a rod tube and they welded fine after quite a long length of storage, and I've had new rods that 2 days later welded like cr@p because it was damp out. Usually I save the extra 7018 for guys to play with, or for those odd misc projects that don't need high strength (mower deck, quick tie down loop etc). Anything that needs to be done with stick thats critical gets a brand new box of 7018 and I just write off the extras as misc project rod.I don't use stick much, but I like to keep 7014 on hand. It doesn't have the storage issues 7018 does, and it's almost as good for most repairs. It's also an easy to use all position rod. Usually this is for things like fixing the plows in a storm, when I have no other choice but stick, and I can't just run down to the store at 2 am..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I agree with Sam and DSW. 7018AC rod will put some fine beads down. Even if the rods get some moisture on them, they can be dried out on some foil in the oven. No harm, no foul. They even smell better afterward, kinda like chicken. City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Lookit, I know you're confused. I spent half my life confused I favor the 7018 rod. Came to it late, but immediately saw the light.I use a very different technique that very often raises eyebrows, and sometimes degenerates into an arguement. But it does work.If you look back at the crap that I make, and use (that's the important thing, the buck stops here), you'll see very different types of hand motions when I make a stick weld.I've been introduced to the straight drag method used with 7018, and like it on heavy material where you have the luxury to simply drag the rod. But on thinner material it can be a disaster. Too much heat concentrated in a small area. You have to move the heat around when working with thinner stuff with a fill-freeze rod.Let's start with thin material. 11ga square tubingPic One........my method of making a butt joint weld in one pass using 7018, it is the odd method mentioned beforehand.Pic Two....... a grindout of one of these types of welds. No visible inclusions, but not saying there might not be microscopic inclusions. These welds work very well for me. They're subjected to daily stress and seem to do well................................................... .....now for some thicker stuffPic Three..........A gap filling weld on some 3/16 tubing. The bastard whip/weave technique again.Pic Four........... A nice straight-no-weave drag weld on some tubing joined to channel. In this case I have the luxury of using the straight drag, the base metal is thick enough to withstand the concentrated heat without burnthrough.Pic Five..........Another straight drag weld on some 3/8 plate joined to 3/16 tubing. Again I have the luxury of heavy base metal which will withstand a lot of heat.7018 is a real performer through a wide range of materials. It just takes a little different approach with the different thickness's..........................................Take what I say with a grain of salt. I'm not formally trained, and only go by what I've observed and done. I tend to do things sorta outside the box. In a nutshell, I do what works for me.But I hope you will experience the lackluster perfomance of 6013, and see what I've observed, then make the switch to the 7018 Attached Images"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I'd second the no worries with 7018 and moisture with mild steel tubing and plate. You can run the stuff untill the rod starts to fuss and spit (then you just won't want too, without drying it).With the rutile coated rods like 6013 or 7014(iron added in flux) the re-strike is easier and I think they tend to teach using a short arc length instead of dragging for a better appearing bead. These rods can also pick up moisture and if it's enough they too will fuss and can weld poorly.Myself, I would probably retrain myself with 7014 for the re-strike ease (the entire coating is conductive, no tapping the rod) and get some 7018 also.Matt
Reply:Originally Posted by tkanzlerwhat rod to use to weld 2x2x3/16 A500 or A501 tube (clean/new). I was going to try 1/16" 6013, but my machine only goes down to 40A. I used 1/16" many moons ago to weld a new sheetmetal floor in my CJ5 with this welder, and I remember the rod heating up too much. Blew a lot of holes in the floor, too, as I recall.
Reply:Well I agree with Sam on this recommendation. The 6013 would not work well with the application the tkanzler was planning to use on that "2x2x3/16 A500 or A501 tube" . His bet bet since a supplier is close and he can get all the combo's of rod in smaller amounts would be to try out several scraps with the welder he has not used for "35 years or so". That will give him some experience with that welder & the various rods before attempting to weld that 2x2x3/16 A500 or A501 tube.tkanzler may also want to post up some pics of his test welds for opinion before he does the final welds.Co-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.& 2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma CutterSorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.
Reply:Rereading all the responses, they run from neutral (if that) on 6013 (1) to heavily favoring 7018 or 7014 (all the rest), so I guess I'll locate some of each. Tractor Supply has 1 lb tubes of both 14 and 18, so I can mess about with both and see what I get.No worries, Rick. Samm, there's no way I'm going to make welds that look like that. My hope is that they're grindable to where they're not a total embarrassment. I dread posting pics, per specter's suggestion, but since I've already embarrassed myself by asking the question, I guess I'm not too proud to post the result.I'm just trying to keep the cash outlay down, or I'd be buying some of each type of rod and playing with it. I've already had to lay out cash for a helmet, which went missing (1/2 price coupon for the cheapest auto-dark at HF), couldnt' find my chipping hammers, which I swear I still have somewhere (another $6), still need gloves (don't have any leather gloves at all), ran a 50A circuit (had all the parts and cable but the receptacle, though), a cheap angle grinder (another HF gamble), steel tube, and so on. My torch and regulators were given away, which is what I get for leaving them at my parents' house, 325 miles away, for 35 years I guess, but I'm not going to replace them. Yet. I could probably buy a finished piece with what I've got into it so far. But having been a woodworker (and turner) since I was a kid, I know how slippery that slope can be, where I'll spend more to make something than I could buy it for. Just gotta have that new tool/fixture/clamp/cutter/etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by tkanzlerI dread posting pics, per specter's suggestion, but since I've already embarrassed myself by asking the question, I guess I'm not too proud to post the result.
Reply:Samm,I'm practicing up for a project with 3/16 square tube just like a couple of your pictures. What size rod and how many amps were you running for those? AC or DC?I'm kind of a slow learner Attached ImagesLast edited by frieed; 09-15-2010 at 05:45 PM.Reason: added picMillerMatic 252, HTP 221 w/cooler, Hypertherm PM45, Lincoln IdealArc 250 AC/DC"I'd like to believe as many true things and as few false things as possible"
Reply:Originally Posted by tkanzlerI started at the bottom with 3/32" 7018AC at about 80-90A, but I couldn't maintain an arc. After the first two passes, I tried 3/32 7014 (at 80A), which was easier to use.
Reply:I have a 1970's Union Carbide buzzbox exactly like that. My Dad gave it to me when he got a new MIG welder.
Reply:weld it up with 7014 and keep practicing the 7018. I say if you can run one you can run both, but the 7014 is a bit easier to restart.I have welded a ton of stuff with old 7018 that were kept in tubes for non critical welds. you get use to welding characteristics and flux coverage that you will be able to do it with you eyes closed.Now if you really want a treat, find yourself some 7024. I love this rod. |
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发表于 2021-8-31 23:32:25