high freq box any good ?

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an old timer friend of mine has the same model as this one sitting on a shelf at home.  said i could have it if i wanted it.  would it be useful with my idealarc 250 ac/dc ?what would i be able to do with it ? and what is it worth ? i don't want to take advantage of a friend.http://cgi.ebay.com/High-Frequency-A...item35ae882782"I'd Rather die on my feet , than live on my knee's"64' Lincoln Sa 200 Redface Code 5496 - Sold 72' Lincoln Idealarc 250 (Roundtop) MillerMatic Vintage
Reply:The description in the ad says what it's for; AC or DC TIG welding. I had one like it once and hooked  a foot switch to a HD contactor in order to turn the welder on and off at will, but still didn't have remote current control. You'd still need the TIG torch, a regulator and gas cylinder, and some practice to get good with it. Harder than using a dedicated TIG welder w/ built-in options.Hard for me to put a value on something like that; value seems to be what you could sell it for less the time and trouble to do so.HF probably could be used for low-amp stick welding, but that's a good way to kill yourself too. Much easier to get electrocuted with HF using stingers and the exposed electrode; the HF will allow current to flow through you when otherwise, it couldn't.
Reply:If you don't need AC high-frequency for aluminum, go scratch-start for which the Idealarc in your avatar is perfectly suitable. Our Idealarcs are square, but that's only better than your round-top when stacking them on top of each other. http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=38106We teach basic pipe welding and our students never use anything but the setup in that thread. Plenty of them go on to profitable careers not the least because they learned old-school first. We also tape over the pointer area so they are forced to set heat by using a piece of scrap, and that habit is very useful when switching to an unknown (and likely worn out!) "eight pack" when they test for a job. Harder than using a dedicated TIG welder w/ built-in options.
Reply:alright thank you very much . that is exactly what i was looking for"I'd Rather die on my feet , than live on my knee's"64' Lincoln Sa 200 Redface Code 5496 - Sold 72' Lincoln Idealarc 250 (Roundtop) MillerMatic Vintage
Reply:I've got one of the things, I used to use it with my stick welder.On a stick welder it will let you keep an arc going with low amps.It will also start the arc without touching the actual metal, like through rust and paint.If you get between the stinger and ground it just gives an annoying little tingle.I actually like the thing, even just for every day use.
Reply:yes, your Idealarc 250 ac/dc will scratch start tig as is (steel and stainless steel) with a tig torch that has a gas valve and a bottle of argon with regulator and flow meter. DC- is the polarity you use for tig ing steel.I use mine frequently for scratch start tig welding.The HF box is what you need if you want to tig weld aluminum. and you use AC for that.JasonLincoln Idealarc 250 stick/tigThermal Dynamics Cutmaster 52Miller Bobcat 250Torchmate CNC tableThermal Arc Hefty 2Ironworkers Local 720
Reply:If you want, I can send you the owners manual as a pdf., it's 11.5MbYou can figure out if it is something you can use.Just sent me a PM with your email address.
Reply:Originally Posted by BlueweldersI've got one of the things, I used to use it with my stick welder.On a stick welder it will let you keep an arc going with low amps.It will also start the arc without touching the actual metal, like through rust and paint. If you get between the stinger and ground it just gives an annoying little tingle I actually like the thing, even just for every day use.
Reply:Look, I don't want to be "that guy" who gets all picky about this kind of stuff, but could you provide some more solid information to back that theory up?High frequency voltage is used specifically because of an electromagnetic property known as the skin effect.  It is the same reason why lightning will not harm you in a car, and because of the skin effect, the high frequency component of the electrical current will not cause any more than a tingle.I'm not saying that a stick welding machine isn't dangerous.  The OCV on many machines is as high as 80V, and if you're well grounded, that's dangerous enough, but I don't see how HF makes it any worse.
Reply:Originally Posted by rlitmanLook, I don't want to be "that guy" who gets all picky about this kind of stuff, but could you provide some more solid information to back that theory up?High frequency voltage is used specifically because of an electromagnetic property known as the skin effect.  It is the same reason why lightning will not harm you in a car, and because of the skin effect, the high frequency component of the electrical current will not cause any more than a tingle.I'm not saying that a stick welding machine isn't dangerous.  The OCV on many machines is as high as 80V, and if you're well grounded, that's dangerous enough, but I don't see how HF makes it any worse.
Reply:There is no such thing as an electric shield.  To say that no electricity flows through the person because all the metal is at the same potential is naive.  Under that understanding, the current flow would follow Kirchoff's law, in which current is understood to flow through ALL available paths, distributed in inverse proportion to the resistance of each path.  Although the metal offers FAR less resistance than the passenger it still offers enough to allow a fatal current through the passenger.Instead, what is happening is called the skin effect.  This is when alternating current arranges itself within a conductor with the largest current density along the conductor's surface.  Back to welding and HF.There is nothing special about the frequency used in HF which allows it to ionize the gap between the electrode and workpiece.  Instead, it is the voltage.  Tens of thousands of volts are required to jump even a short gap (which isn't as impressive as it sounds, as a static shock can zap with 5000 or more volts).  So, why doesn't a TIG welder kill you if you accidentally get zapped (like say when your cable gets damaged)?  The skin effect.At the kilohertz frequencies of your HF, the extremely high voltage is safe, because it does not travel more than a thousandth of an inch into a conductor (such as a person).
Reply:I have the Hi- Freq unit by Lincoln on my Portable AEAD200LE and i remember reading something on Lincolns web site in the owners manual about using such a device with the Ideal Arc it has a internal stabilizer its a current resistor u have to unhook it to use a hi freq unit with the ideal arc and your also supposed to hook up a bypass condenser on a transformer type machine . Its something to look into anyway heres the link it talks about it .http://content.lincolnelectric.com//...r/im/IM238.pdf
Reply:Some info from someone whose done it (although not with that particular arc stabilizer):Not having a foot pedal is a killer, especially on aluminum.  I looked up some diagrams over on the hobart board and made myself an SCR-based phase-angle control setup that fits inside my lincoln tombstone.  All told, I think I have maybe $100 into adding a pedal to a stick machine including a chinese pedal from ebay.You don't have to, but may reduce the lifespan of the welding power source if you don't have some sort of HV suppression cap between the leads on the power source.  Stray corona inside a transformer core is a nasty, nasty thing.You will waste a lot of argon if you don't have some way to control gas flow at the torch.  That will probably be something I add to my tombstone at a later time, controlled by a switch inside the pedal.  A simple timer based around a cheap NE555 timer should add postflow capability.I think that the posters above are hashing over small details and unnecessary theory.  The problem with a HV infused welding power source is the possibility that the HV will ionize the air between electrode and human, possibly allowing a high OCV (probably around 80 or more) to run through ones muscle system and wreak much havoc on one's heart.  With my arc stabilizer running and no voltage through the welding side I can get 1/4" corona to jump to my skin and make it tingle, however I would be wary of doing this with the pedal floored.  Of course I've been hit with 480 Vac and it didn't kill me so YMMV.  You can get the same effect with wet gloves and I'd bet money a lot of pipeliners here have gotten shocked lying in a ditch with a pipe on a foggy or rainy day.
Reply:Originally Posted by rlitmanThere is no such thing as an electric shield.  To say that no electricity flows through the person because all the metal is at the same potential is naive.  Under that understanding, the current flow would follow Kirchoff's law, in which current is understood to flow through ALL available paths, distributed in inverse proportion to the resistance of each path.  Although the metal offers FAR less resistance than the passenger it still offers enough to allow a fatal current through the passenger.Instead, what is happening is called the skin effect.  This is when alternating current arranges itself within a conductor with the largest current density along the conductor's surface.  Back to welding and HF.There is nothing special about the frequency used in HF which allows it to ionize the gap between the electrode and workpiece.  Instead, it is the voltage.  Tens of thousands of volts are required to jump even a short gap (which isn't as impressive as it sounds, as a static shock can zap with 5000 or more volts).  So, why doesn't a TIG welder kill you if you accidentally get zapped (like say when your cable gets damaged)?  The skin effect.At the kilohertz frequencies of your HF, the extremely high voltage is safe, because it does not travel more than a thousandth of an inch into a conductor (such as a person).
Reply:I have personally used a high frequency add-on box attached to my Lincoln Tombstone welder.  It worked great and would easily jump a gap of about 3/8" once the argon is flowing.  No problems.  I used it on aluminum a few times and it is doable if you don't have a real TIG to work with.  Like others have said, it is more difficult without a foot pedal.Linde/Union Carbide HDA-300Hobart RC-250Lincoln AC-225Lincoln WeldPak 100 Hobart Stickmate LX Victor OxyAcetylene
Reply:I used one for about 10 years in conjunction with a Bobcat 225NT. It was on old Linde freekbox.It had a 26FV torch. I used it for mobile marine and it took a few years to get the hang of it.If you use it with wet gloves it will knock yer D!CK in the D!RT!!!!!!Rigging an on-off switch mounted on the torch would help a ton with the AC aluminum.Also makes re-strikes on 7018 lots easier on DC. YMMVI would recommend getting a Miller Dynasty 200DX instead tho. IMO there is no comparison.Miller Dynasty 700Miller 350P with Aluma-pro push-pullMiller 280 Dynasty with expansion card Dynasty 200 DXMigMax 215 Enuff power and hand tools to create one of anything..... but mass produce nothing!!!