Vertical up welding?

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Ok a buddy of mine that welds said I should work on my out of position welding " vertical up" I have been messing around with it since monday. What's the trick to it ?Will   Supports Autism Awareness                            My ToysBobCat 225 PLusMillermatic 130Miller Spectrum 300 CutmateEverlast Power Tig 185 Micro April is Autism Month .
Reply:what process? and more details would helpful
Reply:smaw stick I have been practicing with 7018 1/8 rod at 100-140 amp fine adjustment 30%.Will   Supports Autism Awareness                            My ToysBobCat 225 PLusMillermatic 130Miller Spectrum 300 CutmateEverlast Power Tig 185 Micro April is Autism Month .
Reply:There are some good videos on youtube,weldingtipsandtricks.com also has excellent videos... the trick is to skip across the center and then hold your corners and pause for about 3 seconds or so,( count if you need to) learn to read the puddle and the difference between the puddle and the slag or flux, keep a tight arc, and a 90 degree or a little more electrode angle... or running a straight up stringer which is skipping up ahead off the puddle and let it form a shelf ,and repeat, of course this is all easier said than done......Lincoln pro mig 180Lincoln Square Wave Tig 300/wp 20/home built water cooler Victor, Purox, Harris, O/A welding/cutting setupsVintage Craftsman drill pressVintage Craftsman/Atlas 12"x 36'' lathe7''x 12'' w/c band saw Everlast 140 st
Reply:Vertical up 7018  3/32 rod, 86 amps.  Fresh Lincoln MRIts a small weave moving pretty fast.  Too fast and you get undercutting.  To keep the edges filled, you have to pause longer on the side.  In the case above I think it was electrode angle.  It should be pointed straight into the root.  Its like painting, put it on so thick its about to run.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by SteelwillOk a buddy of mine that welds said I should work on my out of position welding " vertical up" I have been messing around with it since monday. What's the trick to it ?
Reply:Originally Posted by geezerYou may want to start by trying a 45 degree incline, then move to vertical. That was the approached the JC used where I attended. Lots of practice.  Previous posts summed up the technique.
Reply:Originally Posted by SteelwillI was thinking the same thing. Master it and then move it up.
Reply:Here's one in the flat position.and one I did in the vertical position.Will   Supports Autism Awareness                            My ToysBobCat 225 PLusMillermatic 130Miller Spectrum 300 CutmateEverlast Power Tig 185 Micro April is Autism Month .
Reply:moving to fast id say. try making a tiny zig zag. move about a 1/16" each way side to side and about the same amount up on each zigzag. be sure to hold the edges and move quickly over the center because the center of the weld willl fill itselfmiller bobcat 250 ntsouth bend metal latheClausing verticle millrikon 17" bandsaweverlast 250exharris oxyfuel set upspeedglass AD helmet with adflo power respirator.
Reply:Biggest issue I see with guys learning vertical is they haven't yet learned to "see" the puddle. They watch the arc most of the time. Once they actually see the puddle things progress rather quickly. Most get thru flat ond horizontal doing timing patterns. that seldom works with vertical and they sudenly can't understand why they can't make this work.Stick is harder than mig because you have to differenciate between the puddle and the slag as well as read the puddle. Try and run a few beads flat and pay very close attention to what is going on around the arc. Don't watch the arc itself. Try and see if you can tell the slag from the puddle and what exactly is happening as you go along. Once you "see" this it will be an "Ah ha!" moment and everything will suddenly make sense..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWBiggest issue I see with guys learning vertical is they haven't yet learned to "see" the puddle. They watch the arc most of the time. Once they actually see the puddle things progress rather quickly. Most get thru flat ond horizontal doing timing patterns. that seldom works with vertical and they sudenly can't understand why they can't make this work.Stick is harder than mig because you have to differenciate between the puddle and the slag as well as read the puddle. Try and run a few beads flat and pay very close attention to what is going on around the arc. Don't watch the arc itself. Try and see if you can tell the slag from the puddle and what exactly is happening as you go along. Once you "see" this it will be an "Ah ha!" moment and everything will suddenly make sense.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWBiggest issue I see with guys learning vertical is they haven't yet learned to "see" the puddle. They watch the arc most of the time. Once they actually see the puddle things progress rather quickly. Most get thru flat ond horizontal doing timing patterns. that seldom works with vertical and they sudenly can't understand why they can't make this work.Stick is harder than mig because you have to differenciate between the puddle and the slag as well as read the puddle. Try and run a few beads flat and pay very close attention to what is going on around the arc. Don't watch the arc itself. Try and see if you can tell the slag from the puddle and what exactly is happening as you go along. Once you "see" this it will be an "Ah ha!" moment and everything will suddenly make sense.
Reply:This is by far one of the best instructional video's of vertical uphill.  http://www.youtube.com/user/weldingt...54/pGczSAb57PsEnjoy!
Reply:Originally Posted by Tubal-CainThis is by far one of the best instructional video's of vertical uphill.  http://www.youtube.com/user/weldingt...54/pGczSAb57PsEnjoy!
Reply:Originally Posted by SteelwillI was thinking the same thing. Master it and then move it up.
Reply:Originally Posted by geezerYup, that assumes you have a good handle on flat fillet welds.  DSW summed things up. Once your peripheral vision kicks in you are well on your way.  Just FYI, I use to hold the weld on each side of the vertical run counting 1 one-thousand one each side.  Helped me to get a handle on the technique......I did NOT concentrate on the middle.  Above all, have fun practicing.  Easy to get frustrated but it will all come together in time.  Try and find someone to help you.  Or better yet, take a course if you can swing it. Best thing I ever did and I was on my early 50's at the time.
Reply:Here is one I ran today. 1/8" 7018 @ roughly 130 ampsI need to work on a consistant bead. I beginning to understand it a little better.Will   Supports Autism Awareness                            My ToysBobCat 225 PLusMillermatic 130Miller Spectrum 300 CutmateEverlast Power Tig 185 Micro April is Autism Month .
Reply:Originally Posted by SteelwillI waited late in life to learn how to weld also, funny thing I use to work my summers in high school through the school system painting the schools and such. My boss Mr. barnes was the welding instructor at the High school, he tried to teach me then how to weld then because he said I cought on to things pretty quick.
Reply:Originally Posted by SteelwillHere is one I ran today. 1/8" 7018 @ roughly 130 ampsI need to work on a consistant bead. I beginning to understand it a little better.
Reply:When starting vertical welding this pattern works well.(Sorry for the crappy MSPaint drawing) Pause at the corners (say "pause" slowly) then move quickly (almost a whip) to the next corner. Don't pause in the middle. Try 3 rod widths for the weld. As you begin to "see" what's going on, you will be able to modify you're pattern and tell exactly how much of a weave to do and at what speed to move. Attached ImagesMillermatic 200Hobart Handler 120Victor O/A & Ramco BandsawLincoln 225 ACSnapOn AD HoodMiller XMT304/22AHypertherm Powermax 1650 G3Lincoln Idealarc DC600 w/Extreme 12 VSMiller Digital Elite "Joker"
Reply:Here is what I mean by filling the plate. The grey line is the first bead on the left side which should be run in the flat position. After that put the plate in the vert position and continue running beads right next to the first one all the way across the plate. Fill up both sides. Again, no weave is needed but if thats what you want to do then go for it. I don't care for weaves, more of a stringer man myself. Thats how I learned and it was easiest for me.Last edited by joe6; 11-12-2011 at 09:57 AM.
Reply:In school, I was told not to use the upsidedown U weave pattern (like Miller suggests) but to use this instead to build the shelf for the next "drive by":The root pass for a vertical fillet weld runs like arrows, pointing up and deep into the corner. This pass gives a nearly flat surface for the next pass, exactly like you face in a groove weld. The weave for a groove weld involves a vertical "step", which creates a "pause" to fill before whipping back to the other side. The tightness of the weave depends on step size, but too tight and you end up with a lot of lava drooling out.It took me a few months to master control, but I guess it works.Last edited by wirehead; 11-12-2011 at 10:40 AM.XMT304 (school)SP125+ (home)HF 4x6 BandsawGood judgement comes from experience and much of that comes from bad judgement.
Reply:Some of these beads are just disgusting...1)Watch the puddle2)SHORT arc length3)I recommend using a smaller diameter rod, they are easier to control.4)Side-to-side motion generally progressing upwards.Dont worry about the middle, if you're going the right speed, it will take care of itself.Start at one side.Move to the other (horizontally and up about a rod diameter)Watch for the puddle to "flow in" against the metal.Move to back to the other side, horizontally.Repeat. Im far from perfect at this, it just takes practice. Good luck [Account Abandoned 8/8/16 Please Do Not Attempt Contact Or Expect A Reply]. See you on YouTube! -ChuckE2009
Reply:Thanks for the pointers, I will work on it some more on monday when I get back to work. I've been storing my welder at work.Will   Supports Autism Awareness                            My ToysBobCat 225 PLusMillermatic 130Miller Spectrum 300 CutmateEverlast Power Tig 185 Micro April is Autism Month .Lanse, How thick is the material being welded? From the looks of it you could have made the weave a little smaller. Also from the looks of it you didn't tie in to the bottom weld.
Reply:Originally Posted by Jay OLanse, How thick is the material being welded? From the looks of it you could have made the weave a little smaller. Also from the looks of it you didn't tie in to the bottom weld.
Reply:Do what you want Will. You haven't laid one decent bead on a bare piece of plate in the vert position yet people are giving you instructions on fillets and grooves. I say, why not just run open root? I tried to help. You'll figure it out. Good luck
Reply:Originally Posted by joe6Do what you want Will. You haven't laid one decent bead on a bare piece of plate in the vert position yet people are giving you instructions on fillets and grooves. I say, why not just run open root? I tried to help. You'll figure it out. Good luck
Reply:Hey Joe6 I post some pictues after I run a few lines on monday.Will   Supports Autism Awareness                            My ToysBobCat 225 PLusMillermatic 130Miller Spectrum 300 CutmateEverlast Power Tig 185 Micro April is Autism Month .
Reply:Open root is the same thing that is on the video you posted except without the backing plate and a 1/8th inch gap or 3/32nd. The root is open. Here are a few pictures of what I mean when I say run one bead then one right next to it untill the plate is full. Honestly, you shouldn't even be thinking about running fillets or grooves untill you can consistantly run near perfect beads one after the other. These pics are not mine, I don't know if they are even 7018 or in the vertical position. They are simply to show you how to practice running a bead untill you can fill up an entire plate with good flat beads that all look the same.Sometimes it takes a little while to get it right!
Reply:^^^ that's awesomeXMT304 (school)SP125+ (home)HF 4x6 BandsawGood judgement comes from experience and much of that comes from bad judgement.
Reply:Again, this is not my video or me welding. This is just to show you what an open root weld looks like. I should rephrase that, a crappy open root weld. Please do not weld like the guy in this video!![ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgEpxT2sfp4[/ame]
Reply:Originally Posted by wirehead^^^ that's awesome
Reply:i envy that brick ;-)AC-180 Lincolnwelder circa '50's
Reply:Originally Posted by joe6Open root is the same thing that is on the video you posted except without the backing plate and a 1/8th inch gap or 3/32nd. The root is open. Here are a few pictures of what I mean when I say run one bead then one right next to it untill the plate is full. Honestly, you shouldn't even be thinking about running fillets or grooves untill you can consistantly run near perfect beads one after the other. These pics are not mine, I don't know if they are even 7018 or in the vertical position. They are simply to show you how to practice running a bead untill you can fill up an entire plate with good flat beads that all look the same.Sometimes it takes a little while to get it right!
Reply:Originally Posted by SteelwillThat is alot of rods. burned
Reply:listen to the song cattle call while u are welding  pause during each beat in the song once you try it you will under stand  my wording a little betterLincoln Pro Core 125Lincolin sp 100Miller Big 40Lincoln Idealarc SP250miller matic 212http://www.facebook.com/hdwelding?sk=wallwww.hdweldingbeds.com