Unique contamination - TIG welding aluminum.

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First off, before anyone asks - I've used about every kind of cleaner and cleaning process you can think of that's available to the general public. Even some things that's generally not "approved" like, Acetone, Lacquer thinner, etc..(to ensure there's no oil etc), soap and water and even some specialized aluminum cleaner that was purchased at the welding supply (the name escapes me right now)...The material in question is standard 6000 series 14-16ga tubing. The rods, are standard 1/16" ER4043 rods. They've been scrubbed with anything from scotch brite, stainless wire brushes... to cleaned in soap and water. Same for the material bieng welded. The welder has been a synchrowave 185, and a synchrowave 200 - they both do/did the same thing used in two different houses (my shop is the garage), with different rods, new rods, old rods, different materials, thicknesses... you name it, I've tried to rule out everything.Tungsten - I've only tried red and green tungstens. FWIW, they've always worked in the past and given good results.At first, I thought the obvious - it was me not cleaning the parts/rods enough and I invested in the cleaners, new rods, etc..The problem - no matter how well the parts were cleaned, the rods were cleaned, no matter how hot or how cold the weld was done - it always looks like it has sand coming out of the weld towards you. There's never any black contamination and the weld usually is dull in appearance. The weld would feel rough (sandy?) to the touch most of the time and the pattern would be inconsistent. Every once in a while a weld would have an arc wondering look to it - even though through the helmet, it appeared to weld fine with an occasional "flash". (When this happens, I've checked/moved grounds, made sure it was cleaned etc.)....after speaking with an electronic engineer friend of mine, he said there could be "noise" in the incoming power that the transformer type machines don't "like" - which, at this point, seems to be the only plausible answer. He mentioned that an inverter type machine may be the fix.Ideas?(sorry, I dont have any good pics - I just moved and all of my stuff is still in the process of bieng unpacked.ggrrrr.. I hate moving!)
Reply:Aha! I did find a picture. This picture shows a pretty good example of what I speak of. Notice the white stains that look like smoke - this was a part washed in soap and water AND whiped with lacquer thinner. They are both NEW pieces of material and directly grounded.Looking closely, you can see the sandy texture. It's been a while since I did this particular part, but I'm pretty sure it was 1/8 green tungsten and 1/8" 4043 rod. Welded with a synchrowave 200. (Used to have a synchrowave 185 that did the exact same thing) Attached Images
Reply:sandy condition check the argon flow and its sorta a condition of the silica content i believe in the 4043 rod. if u have scrap layin around and some 5356 u might try it just to see what it looks like . might try a different lot of 4043 or manufacturer
Reply:Originally Posted by Turbostang....after speaking with an electronic engineer friend of mine, he said there could be "noise" in the incoming power that the transformer type machines don't "like" - which, at this point, seems to be the only plausible answer. He mentioned that an inverter type machine may be the fix.Ideas?(sorry, I dont have any good pics - I just moved and all of my stuff is still in the process of bieng unpacked.ggrrrr.. I hate moving!)
Reply:Another thing you may try is reducing the setting on your balance control (little more DC+)I see little to no "etch zone" (cleaning) adjacent to the weld bead.4043 is sensitive to "a grainy appearance" if run too hot.  Not moving fast enough will also cause you to "overheat" the filler.  As suggested, unless the part is going to be subjected to high heat (+160deg), I'd try using 5356.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Makes sense,  thanks SundownIII
Reply:I also have a feeling the graininess appearance of the solidified puddle comes from the silicon content in the 4043 filler rod.  I've noticed it also when I weld with 4043.  I think the silicion solidifies at a higher temp than the rest of the aluminum "soup", so the solidified structures can get pushed past the surface during puddle solidification, which causes this grainy appearance pattern on the surface of the solidified puddle.  I am not 100% certain of all of that, it is just my current mental model.If you ever weld with a hypereutectic aluminum alloy (very high >10% silicon content, usually pressure-cast) you might notice some odd welding behavior in the puddle.  I think these grainy structures were underneath the puddle surface in areas of the puddle that weren't adequately heated to completely melt everything.  I knew something funky was going on when I went to try a dip my filler rod into a shiny wet looking surface, but the rod couldn't be dipped below the surface of the puddle.  Either the puddle was wide and super thin for some reason, or there was a solid structures inside the puddle.  Adding more heat allowed normal.  I've only noticed this behavior with high silicon content aluminum.  I'll bet the extra silicon content makes those "grainy structures" more extensive.As for the whitish powder, AKA "smut", it is common to see when MIG welding aluminum.  I understand it is caused by oxidation, so I agree to check your shielding gas/flowrate/cup/etc.  It seems to be formed by the aluminum "boiling" into a vapor (such as when you are TIG welding and accidentally dip a super-heated tungsten electrode into a molten aluminum puddle).  The metal vapor condenses into many tiny little droplets, which stabilize when they reach oxygen, and fall onto the surface where they appear as a black,brown,or tan, or white looking powder (color depending on the size of the particles.)
Reply:It looks like it's off-gassing zinc.
Reply:I appreciate the suggestions guys.The only wierd thing about the whole situation - I went to my transmission builders shop to do some welding for him. He has the exact same welder as I do - I even used the same rods. (they came from the same vendor, but maybe not the same batch.)No problems, the welds look beautiful and no grainy appearance.For the records, I've cranked the gas up, down, sideways - changed bottles etc..The only thing I have not tried was the different 5356 rods mentioned above. These parts do get subjected to 200* plus radiant heat over and over, and they are under 30+ psi pressure.
Reply:i would go with the 5356but that is just mei aint perfectidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tig #2 used for sticklincoln sp100hh125dual arbor grinder polisher30 yrs of hand tools52 pitch blocks 6p-26prake gauge -pitch gaugeG&D prop repair 918-207-6938Hulbert,okla 74441
Reply:question are you using a power brush ie grinder to clean the weld area before welding ? it looks like scotch brite in that picture , but ive found using a grinder with a stainless brush will break out everytime as the wire bristles create more oxide ten times as fast as they take it off , u will notice bright looking spots in the broken weld bead , its the oxide film not getting cleaned off well enough , it might be something to look into , it kinda looks the same as your beads look with the grainy pattern but i still have a suspicion its the 4043I forgot how to change this.
Reply:No Lawson, you're right - I always use scotch brite. I don't ever use power tools here, because I can't keep myself to using them solely for aluminum use.
Reply:Well turbo,Right there's a big part of your problem.Scotchbrite is not aggressive enough to break up the surface oxides.  What you're doing is mainly "polishing" them.Doesn't require a power wheel.  Small SS brush with fine bristles works fine.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:sundown, as much as I'd like to think it was that easy, it's not. As I mentioned earlier (maybe not specifically) I've tried everything - like, brushes, sanders, chemicals, etc..So far, scotchbrite seems to work the best (for me).
Reply:What is the abrasive in the scotch brite, possibly there is some residual that is embedded in the aluminum surface?  Hand brushing with SS has no issue with leaving a residue, and it is not too agressive as is power wire brushing which can cause surface oxidation.
Reply:The abrasive in scotchbrite IS the scotchbrite itself, it's (as far as I know) just a hard plastic. It more or less wears away as you use it. Keep in mind, this is even wiping it down with acetone after the fact.
Reply:for what its worth:scotchbrite is made using, Cubitron Abrasive: a ceramic aluminum oxidei will still use the old SS brushidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tig #2 used for sticklincoln sp100hh125dual arbor grinder polisher30 yrs of hand tools52 pitch blocks 6p-26prake gauge -pitch gaugeG&D prop repair 918-207-6938Hulbert,okla 74441
Reply:Originally Posted by prop-doctorfor what its worth:scotchbrite is made using, Cubitron Abrasive: a ceramic aluminum oxidei will still use the old SS brush
Reply:If you tried another piece of material and another piece of filler rod, that eliminates that end. If you take your material and your rod over to friends place and weld it there, everything should give you a direction to look further.
Reply:Originally Posted by mcostelloIf you tried another piece of material and another piece of filler rod, that eliminates that end. If you take your material and your rod over to friends place and weld it there, everything should give you a direction to look further.
Reply:I think the "noise" your EE bud is thinking of would be stuff caused by large solenoids firing and dumping. Very unlikely unless your in a plant or have one next door with large hydraulic driven equipment (like 5" plus HBMs or large presses). This mostly just makes control circuits whacky. Transformers will behave badly with line drops or bad caps, but you know usually if your power supply is switching and dropping cycles. I doubt it's the input power. It is possible to "saturate" a square wave transformer machine by taking it too far out of balance with too many amps which will make it "stick" and miss mulltiple + or - cycles on a row but that should cause some black soot.Since you used another similar machine with better results, I would rule out arc length and heat settings. Have you got, or could you borrow another torch? Also check fittings/hose around the gas solonoid.Last I use a stiffer SS single row wire platers'  brush I get from Osborn these days. It's good for breaking up decarb on hot direct hardening steel, and very light pressure will clean softer materials. It's also great for T's and fillet's. Pic below (you just drag it, lasts forever).Good LuckMatt Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by Matt_MaguireI think the "noise" your EE bud is thinking of would be stuff caused by large solenoids firing and dumping. Very unlikely unless your in a plant or have one next door with large hydraulic driven equipment (like 5" plus HBMs or large presses). This mostly just makes control circuits whacky. Transformers will behave badly with line drops or bad caps, but you know usually if your power supply is switching and dropping cycles. I doubt it's the input power. It is possible to "saturate" a square wave transformer machine by taking it too far out of balance with too many amps which will make it "stick" and miss mulltiple + or - cycles on a row but that should cause some black soot.Since you used another similar machine with better results, I would rule out arc length and heat settings. Have you got, or could you borrow another torch? Also check fittings/hose around the gas solonoid.Last I use a stiffer SS single row wire platers'  brush I get from Osborn these days. It's good for breaking up decarb on hot direct hardening steel, and very light pressure will clean softer materials. It's also great for T's and fillet's. Pic below (you just drag it, lasts forever).Good LuckMatt
Reply:Guys, (Not the OP)Think we're getting set up here.Several good recommendations have been met with nope, tried that, not my problem, etc. etc.  Everything seems to be focused on "My Syncrowave won't produce the bead".Now, lets do a little homework.OP joined the forum on 1/2/11.  First post was a series of questions about a "Green Machine"?  Now we find that the OP has a NEW tig welder on the way.Anybody want to take bets that the next post will read something like, "I just got my new Neverlast tig welder and the beads are great.  Much better than my Syncrowave."It's BS like this that leave me with a really bad taste in my mouth about the "tactics" used by our "imported machine" sponsors.I'm an old guy who didn't "fall off the turnip truck yesterday".  I've welded with a "fair amount" of 4043 filler over the years on both transformer and inverter machines (I own both) and I'm here to tell you, you're more likely to get a "grainy bead" with an inverter than you are with a transformer.  90% of the time, it comes down to TECHNIQUE, not the machine.Hey, Turbo, what's the Serial Number of that Syncrowave that you're having so much trouble with.  How about a picture (which you seem to be good at) of the data plate and a photo of your torch setup would also be nice.  Are you using a water cooled setup?I may be totally "off base" here, but this thread is starting to develop a "fishy" odor.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIGuys, (Not the OP)Think we're getting set up here.Several good recommendations have been met with nope, tried that, not my problem, etc. etc.  Everything seems to be focused on "My Syncrowave won't produce the bead".Now, lets do a little homework.OP joined the forum on 1/2/11.  First post was a series of questions about a "Green Machine"?  Now we find that the OP has a NEW tig welder on the way.Anybody want to take bets that the next post will read something like, "I just got my new Neverlast tig welder and the beads are great.  Much better than my Syncrowave."It's BS like this that leave me with a really bad taste in my mouth about the "tactics" used by our "imported machine" sponsors.I'm an old guy who didn't "fall off the turnip truck yesterday".  I've welded with a "fair amount" of 4043 filler over the years on both transformer and inverter machines (I own both) and I'm here to tell you, you're more likely to get a "grainy bead" with an inverter than you are with a transformer.  90% of the time, it comes down to TECHNIQUE, not the machine.Hey, Turbo, what's the Serial Number of that Syncrowave that you're having so much trouble with.  How about a picture (which you seem to be good at) of the data plate and a photo of your torch setup would also be nice.  Are you using a water cooled setup?I may be totally "off base" here, but this thread is starting to develop a "fishy" odor.
Reply:Hey Turbo, don't take to much to heart about what Sundown says. Its still early and the meds haven't fully kicked in yet. Some days the Dementia is worse then others. Believe it or not, I think this is one of his good days. Millermatic 251Spectrum 300 PlasmaEverlast PowerTig 250EXEverlast PowerCool W300Harris / Victor OACraftsman 13 Speed Drill PressProTools Air/Hydraulic Bender48" BrakeCompressor, Notchers, Grinders, etc.Rugar,I always enjoy hearing from another Neverlast stooge.  However, I don't think that latest post will even get you a handful of consumables from them.You're better served staying on the Neverlast Forum.  At least there, the newbie's will at least "think" you know what you're talking about.  Here we know better.Turbo,Yea, every serious "aluminum" welder, fabricator I know is using a Sync 200 with an air cooled torch and a "baby" bottle of argon.  Combine that with those "professional" flowmeters and you've got just what it takes.We'll just sit back and see how this "shakes out".Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIRugar,I always enjoy hearing from another Neverlast stooge.  However, I don't think that latest post will even get you a handful of consumables from them.You're better served staying on the Neverlast Forum.  At least there, the newbie's will at least "think" you know what you're talking about.  Here we know better.Turbo,Yea, every serious "aluminum" welder, fabricator I know is using a Sync 200 with an air cooled torch and a "baby" bottle of argon.  Combine that with those "professional" flowmeters and you've got just what it takes.We'll just sit back and see how this "shakes out".
Reply:This will not end well.
Reply:Yepper,"My Syncrowave doesn't produce a good bead.""I just ordered a new Neverlast multifunction machine."All in a period of four days.If it looks like pooh, feels like pooh, smells like pooh, it probably is pooh.Rugar will know cause he's full of it.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIYepper,"My Syncrowave doesn't produce a good bead.""I just ordered a new Neverlast multifunction machine."All in a period of four days.If it looks like pooh, feels like pooh, smells like pooh, it probably is pooh.Rugar will know cause he's full of it.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIWell turbo,Right there's a big part of your problem.Scotchbrite is not aggressive enough to break up the surface oxides.  What you're doing is mainly "polishing" them.Doesn't require a power wheel.  Small SS brush with fine bristles works fine.
Reply:Originally Posted by BrettZap made a similar comment lately also.I am positive both you and Zap have more experiance than me, but Tig welding is part of my living  ands has been for over 10 years though it is not my first trade.Maybe not by hand rubbing (which the photo does look like ) but I can tell you the correct grade scotchbrite on a linisher or  pipe sander  will most definitely deal with surface oxides.The brown scotchbrite (Over here in Aus ) is particularly aggressive . Maybe we have access to more types of scotchbrite , but I would be surprised if that was the case.I do have the luxury of a 3phase linisher , you can virtually grind ally with it.Regards and due respect.Brett
Reply:i'll swap you my thermal arc 185 inverter with pulse and all the goodies for that syncrowave 200.. i will guarantee the ta185 works just fine, i'll even throw in a ck gassaver gas lens.. if your not to far from ky i'll even drive to you...tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:Originally Posted by bruceri'll swap you my thermal arc 185 inverter with pulse and all the goodies for that syncrowave 200.. i will guarantee the ta185 works just fine, i'll even throw in a ck gassaver gas lens.. if your not to far from ky i'll even drive to you...
Reply:Brett.The problem with "scotchbright" is that when used for "abrading" aluminum, it clogs up rapidly.  When this happens, all you're doing is "smearing" the oxides around on the surface.I have the 2" rotec discs (in purple-coarse grit) that mount on an angle grinder.  Work great on steel/SS, but hit them one time on aluminum, and the pad is "clogged" in seconds.Not saying scotchbright is bad.  I use the green pads for wiping down my filler material (if it's a real particular job), followed by an acetone wipedown with a clean rag.Still found that a SS brush does the best job of "breaking the surface oxide".I use plasic trays for my different material tools.  Aluminum, SS, Mild Steel.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:[QUOTE=SundownIII;457440]Brett.The problem with "scotchbright" is that when used for "abrading" aluminum, it clogs up rapidly.  When this happens, all you're doing is "smearing" the oxides around on the surface.QUOTE]Try the brown , I dont find that it clogs You'll love it!  Regards BrettI never do it by hand always machine aided, (yep i,m lazy , but why bark when you own a dog?) I may add that my welds are always powdercoated eventually so appaerance isnt important in fact linishing increases surface area and you get a better coatong. , except SS I wouldnt use it on SS  unless Im pwdercoating the SS  a green type of belt, its not scotchbrite the name escapes me ATM , I find with SS I dont need to clean other than a wipe down. and I may only use mild steel once or twice a year.Your right though cross contamination is a thing to be vigilant of.Last edited by Brett; 01-08-2011 at 06:24 PM.A good guess is better than a bad measurement
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIThe problem with "scotchbright" is that when used for "abrading" aluminum, it clogs up rapidly.  When this happens, all you're doing is "smearing" the oxides around on the surface.
Reply:Originally Posted by TurbostangFirst off, before anyone asks - I've used about every kind of cleaner and cleaning process you can think of that's available to the general public. Even some things that's generally not "approved" like, Acetone, Lacquer thinner, etc..(to ensure there's no oil etc), soap and water and even some specialized aluminum cleaner that was purchased at the welding supply (the name escapes me right now)...The material in question is standard 6000 series 14-16ga tubing. The rods, are standard 1/16" ER4043 rods. They've been scrubbed with anything from scotch brite, stainless wire brushes... to cleaned in soap and water. Same for the material bieng welded. The welder has been a synchrowave 185, and a synchrowave 200 - they both do/did the same thing used in two different houses (my shop is the garage), with different rods, new rods, old rods, different materials, thicknesses... you name it, I've tried to rule out everything.Tungsten - I've only tried red and green tungstens. FWIW, they've always worked in the past and given good results.At first, I thought the obvious - it was me not cleaning the parts/rods enough and I invested in the cleaners, new rods, etc..The problem - no matter how well the parts were cleaned, the rods were cleaned, no matter how hot or how cold the weld was done - it always looks like it has sand coming out of the weld towards you. There's never any black contamination and the weld usually is dull in appearance. The weld would feel rough (sandy?) to the touch most of the time and the pattern would be inconsistent. Every once in a while a weld would have an arc wondering look to it - even though through the helmet, it appeared to weld fine with an occasional "flash". (When this happens, I've checked/moved grounds, made sure it was cleaned etc.)....after speaking with an electronic engineer friend of mine, he said there could be "noise" in the incoming power that the transformer type machines don't "like" - which, at this point, seems to be the only plausible answer. He mentioned that an inverter type machine may be the fix.Ideas?)
Reply:Originally Posted by StevefromOhioCould it  be Chinese aluminum? I have heard some strange things on 4130 tubing cracking that came from China.  Maybe the aluminum was made in China and was contaminated with something like dog food or children's toys?
Reply:this is probably one if the most anti helpful threads i have even commented on , i am going to quit watching it as its either bickering or ignorance what happened to simple solutions to a problem . the reason the 4130 cracked from china - it work hardened in transit all aluminum does work harden in transit to a point .I forgot how to change this.
Reply:looks to me like the anodizing isnt being completely removed..not saying they were anodized parst even but thats what the sandy appearance of welding over anodizing looks like
Reply:Originally Posted by BrettDog Food?Childrens Toys?I dont think I have heard on this forum a more Stupid or  ignorant remark.Brett Thompson
Reply:Originally Posted by LawsonWeldingLLCthe reason the 4130 cracked from china - it work hardened in transit all aluminum does work harden in transit to a point .
Reply:Originally Posted by StevefromOhioCould it  be Chinese aluminum? I have heard some strange things on 4130 tubing cracking that came from China.  Maybe the aluminum was made in China and was contaminated with something like dog food or children's toys?
Reply:I can't speak for the quality of aluminum coming from China (haven't used any), but I can flat out tell you some of the Stainless Steel coming from China is pure crap.You'll be welding a seam and everything is going well, all of a sudden you'll hit a spot and it looks like the metal just "erupted".  Very frustrating.BTW:  Do any of you "Chinese Supporters" want a good deal on some chinese drywall?  I hear there are a few warehouses full of it in the Norfolk, VA area.I'm currently working on a bronze casting (rudder support) that came from China on an imported trawler.  I've worked with bronze castings from Buck-Algonquin in the past, and it's nothing like the crap in this chinese bronze.  Dirtiest stuff I've ever put an arc to.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by BrettDog Food?Childrens Toys?I dont think I have heard on this forum a more Stupid or  ignorant remark.Brett Thompson
Reply:Lawson, I couldn't agree more. Originally Posted by SundownIIII can't speak for the quality of aluminum coming from China (haven't used any), but I can flat out tell you some of the Stainless Steel coming from China is pure crap.You'll be welding a seam and everything is going well, all of a sudden you'll hit a spot and it looks like the metal just "erupted".  Very frustrating.BTW:  Do any of you "Chinese Supporters" want a good deal on some chinese drywall?  I hear there are a few warehouses full of it in the Norfolk, VA area.I'm currently working on a bronze casting (rudder support) that came from China on an imported trawler.  I've worked with bronze castings from Buck-Algonquin in the past, and it's nothing like the crap in this chinese bronze.  Dirtiest stuff I've ever put an arc to.
Reply:Turbo,Really don't know why I even bother addressing you.  You obviously lack the "mental capacity" to deal with the "real world facts".You lack the knowledge and experience to differentiate between a "low initial cost" and a "value".You'd have to be "living in a cave" not to have seen the quantity of Chinese junk that's been dumped on our shores in the last several years.  Everything from contaminated baby food, contaminated pet food, lead based paint on children's toys, defective sheetrock which causes electrical failures, etc, etc.Having done extensive international travel, I am well aware of the impact of a "global economy".  I also understand the difference in a "part" that's designed by a US company, speced by a US company, and put thru Quality Control evaluation, by a US company.  When these parts are used in US produced goods, you have the strength of an "american company" standing behind them.To compare a foreign designed and built welder, that's backed by an importer operating out of a "distribution warehouse", to a quality machine backed by an established US based company is rather shortsighted.As far as the type vehicle I drive.  I have a GMC Envoy and a 5 Series BMW.  I've driven GM vehicles since 1956.  I have been to the BMW factory (outside of Munich) several times (lived in Stuttgart, GE for 3 years), and can testify to their "quality control".I have also spent a "fair amount" of time in the Far East.  I've been to Japan, Thailand, Taiwan, mainland China, etc, etc.  If you think there's a standard for "quality control" in China, then you're very wrong.  China has established itself as the "environmental cesspool" for the industrialized world.  We, as Americans, are as guilty as anyone.  This growth in China has been fueled by our greed and "we want it now and we want it cheap" attitude.I'll be the first to admit that I'm a "little prejudiced".  I still carry shrapnel manufactured by the Chinese and provided to our adversaries during a long ago conflict.  I've watched, first hand the Chinese ships sail in and out of Haiphong harbor delivering weapons designed to kill US servicemen.  I've watched the billions of dollars the Chinese are spending to develop a "Carrier Killer Missile".If you think the "Chinese" are our "friends" then I don't know what to tell you, other than you should be teaching your kids Chinese and how to eat with chopsticks.  If they're such great "trading partners" with the US, why haven't they stepped to the plate and "put a muzzle" on their communist puppet North Korea?You keep sending your money to China.  I'll keep sending mine to "Big Blue".Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIITurbo,Really don't know why I even bother addressing you.  You obviously lack the "mental capacity" to deal with the "real world facts".You lack the knowledge and experience to differentiate between a "low initial cost" and a "value".You'd have to be "living in a cave" not to have seen the quantity of Chinese junk that's been dumped on our shores in the last several years.  Everything from contaminated baby food, contaminated pet food, lead based paint on children's toys, defective sheetrock which causes electrical failures, etc, etc.Having done extensive international travel, I am well aware of the impact of a "global economy".  I also understand the difference in a "part" that's designed by a US company, speced by a US company, and put thru Quality Control evaluation, by a US company.  When these parts are used in US produced goods, you have the strength of an "american company" standing behind them.To compare a foreign designed and built welder, that's backed by an importer operating out of a "distribution warehouse", to a quality machine backed by an established US based company is rather shortsighted.As far as the type vehicle I drive.  I have a GMC Envoy and a 5 Series BMW.  I've driven GM vehicles since 1956.  I have been to the BMW factory (outside of Munich) several times (lived in Stuttgart, GE for 3 years), and can testify to their "quality control".I have also spent a "fair amount" of time in the Far East.  I've been to Japan, Thailand, Taiwan, mainland China, etc, etc.  If you think there's a standard for "quality control" in China, then you're very wrong.  China has established itself as the "environmental cesspool" for the industrialized world.  We, as Americans, are as guilty as anyone.  This growth in China has been fueled by our greed and "we want it now and we want it cheap" attitude.I'll be the first to admit that I'm a "little prejudiced".  I still carry shrapnel manufactured by the Chinese and provided to our adversaries during a long ago conflict.  I've watched, first hand the Chinese ships sail in and out of Haiphong harbor delivering weapons designed to kill US servicemen.  I've watched the billions of dollars the Chinese are spending to develop a "Carrier Killer Missile".If you think the "Chinese" are our "friends" then I don't know what to tell you, other than you should be teaching your kids Chinese and how to eat with chopsticks.  If they're such great "trading partners" with the US, why haven't they stepped to the plate and "put a muzzle" on their communist puppet North Korea?You keep sending your money to China.  I'll keep sending mine to "Big Blue".
Reply:Originally Posted by StevefromOhioRelax.It was meant as a joke.Did you ever hear about the toys made in China contaminated with lead?Or the dog food from China that was killing dogs and cats with poisonous metals?I think some folks just are too serious to really enjoy life. Have fun and smile once in a while. You may find it enjoyable!