one last question on home made tig cooler

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I am using a 258GPH submersible pump. It seems to flow fine and has been rocommended to me by a few people. But on the return line where the water dumps back into my reservoir, It only trickles out... Is this because I need a stronger pump, or is it because the holes in the torch are so small the water dosnt have much room to flow through?Lincoln Square Wave 175 TIGLincoln 110v flux core welder (my 1st)Clarke 180EN MIG
Reply:Sounds like that pump's flow spec is at a very low pressure.  How much flow do you have?  Does the trickle of water get very hot when you're welding?  If the water isn't too hot, then you probably have enough flow to work.  You might get some thick scrap, turn the machine up, and put the pedal down for  a while (watch the duty cycle on the machine).  See how hot the return water gets.You run the chance of burning the pump out.  Sounds like it's not designed to run constricted like that.Dynasty200DX w/coolmate1MM210MM VintageESAB miniarc161ltsLincoln AC225Victor O/A, Smith AW1ACutmaster 81IR 2475N7.5FPRage3Jancy USA1019" SBAEAD-200LE
Reply:I have a pump that is similar to yours (mine is a becket mid sized pond pump). my return flows out steady but not like it would on a off the shelf cooler. For my 200 amp machine it has been fine at full boar. The leads get nice and warm but not hot and the cooling water has never gotten above 'warm' although I only set it up since it's gotten cold out.
Reply:there wont be a high pressure stream, but should be a steady flowkinda like a faucet --not a drip or fast drip but a slow flow  use it and check the temp.your going from a say 3/8 tube down to a 3/16 ,to a say 1/8 tube  so yes it is restricted mine feeds in from the big hose(lead from welder) and returns from the smaller hose( torchidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tig #2 used for sticklincoln sp100hh125dual arbor grinder polisher30 yrs of hand tools52 pitch blocks 6p-26prake gauge -pitch gaugeG&D prop repair 918-207-6938Hulbert,okla 74441
Reply:Originally Posted by sen2twoI am using a 258GPH submersible pump. It seems to flow fine and has been rocommended to me by a few people. But on the return line where the water dumps back into my reservoir, It only trickles out... Is this because I need a stronger pump, or is it because the holes in the torch are so small the water dosnt have much room to flow through?
Reply:Prop-Doc,If you're feeding water into the larger hose (also the power) and returning water to the cooler via the smaller water line, you've got your lines reversed.  Coolant should flow from the cooler via the smaller water line to the torch where the most cooling is needed, then return to the cooler via the larger line and in the process cools the electrical conductor.The way you currently have the hoses setup, your coolant is being preheated by the electrical conductor before it has a chance to cool the torch.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:its been this way for going on 20 yrs. i like the cooled water going to torch(large hose  then heated water going out(small hose) never burnt a torch up yet?? wouldn't it be better to cool the lead ,rather than run heated water through it?again no probs in 20 yrsidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tig #2 used for sticklincoln sp100hh125dual arbor grinder polisher30 yrs of hand tools52 pitch blocks 6p-26prake gauge -pitch gaugeG&D prop repair 918-207-6938Hulbert,okla 74441
Reply:I agree with Sundown, but for a different reason. In marine applications, ie a live baitwell I've always been told that the return line should be the larger hose for better flow. I don't know why the application to a cooler would be different. Flame away.
Reply:That's not "my way of doing things".That's the way Miller, WeldTec, Bernard, and every cooler manufacturer I know shows the coolant flow.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Every dedicated cooler I've seen (mig and tig) have a small input hose to the torch and return via the power cable. The input hoses on my two heavy #18 torches look to be .125"-156" ID at best and the power cable ID is prolly .312".Maybe to avoid a possible vapor lock?(edit) It may also be the way the cooling runs in the head, you can't reverse the power and coolant fittings/tubes on the head.MattLast edited by Matt_Maguire; 12-29-2010 at 02:04 PM.
Reply:Going back to the original post, might it be a good idea to put in a bypass of some sort so as not to possibly ruin the pump if the restriction in the torch lines is too much?  I am building a cooler with a water transfer pump that is rated at around 300 GPH and I was wondering if this might be a good idea.
Reply:If running this type of pump with a restriction might possibly burn out the pump motor would it be advisable or possible to wire it so that the pump only runs while you are welding?  Or does the water need to run all of the time to cool the torch between welding periods?
Reply:Here (hopefully) is a pic from the CK Worldwide Tig Torch hook-up manual.  Note that it says 1 quart per minute flow rate.Link to document:  http://www.ckworldwide.com/technical.htm(Near the bottom of the page)Jerry (extreme rookie) in Anchorage Attached ImagesLast edited by Muskt; 01-17-2011 at 10:39 PM.
Reply:Thanks, that will be very helpful.
Reply:I don't think the power cord is bigger in terms of flow since it has the braided lead inside it. I run my flow backwards as well. I set it up that way in my DIY cooler because it was way easier than doing it the way that all the cooling manufactures recommend. I haven't had any problems running it that way on my 200 amp machine and I don't think I ever will. My torch head barley gets hot, something I thought might be an issue running in reverse.
Reply:There is a reason that a $240 Procon or other brand type pump is used on most TIG water coolers.it is a particular kind of pump not just any pump.Last edited by Donald Branscom; 01-18-2011 at 12:49 PM.AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:Originally Posted by txcarbuilderIf running this type of pump with a restriction might possibly burn out the pump motor would it be advisable or possible to wire it so that the pump only runs while you are welding?  Or does the water need to run all of the time to cool the torch between welding periods?
Reply:258 gph = 4.3 gpm4 gpm through say 1/8" hoses in places like in the torch = 100 feet per second (fps) = screaming, like a pressure washer.of course your pump is incapable of that pressure, so you are getting some quite small amount of actual flow through.for refference, reccomended max velovity for hydraulic pressure lines = 7-15 feet per seca garden hose is around 5 fps.to get to 10 fps on your water loop you would need 3/8" lines everywhere.thus the restriction is extreem and limiting your flow.since you used a "pond pump" I'm going to assume impeller pump like I have in my ponds.  they dont burn up with restriction.  they just fail to flow enough.  they are not positive displacement, meaning one revolution of the motor does not have to move a specific amount of fluid.   your pump is effective a "fan" facing a wall with a mouse hole.   not particularly efficient use of your electricity, but oh well.Last edited by dsergison; 01-18-2011 at 03:34 PM.