Repairing tractor part

admin

What would be the best way (if it's even possible) to try and fix this part. It's the cylinder case for a Massey Ferguson GC 2310 TLB. It is busted right on top of the 3 point lift piston,where there will be a lot of hydraulic pressure. I can get a replacement for this,but would like to try to fix this if I can. Attached Images
Reply:Some questions that will get you better responses:Is the piece steel or cast iron? If cast iron, what type?  Issues are best welding/brazing method, filler, and flux selections.Since the crack is open, the piece is deformed.  Can the crack be closed using a clamp or vice?  Issues are fit-up during re-installation, need to drill crack ends to prevent crack propagation, and pre- and post-weld heating and cooling of work piece.What does the back side of the cracked section look like?  Is it solid or hollow?  How deep is crack?Issues are need to grind out crack and need to weld from other side.There may be other considerations/questions that other members can add.TeddCoHTP Microcut 400 & Invertig 160DC  Smith Dual Guard MD-510 OA Rig  Lincoln SP135+  Hobart Stickmate LX 235/160
Reply:Originally Posted by TeddcoSome questions that will get you better responses:Is the piece steel or cast iron? If cast iron, what type?  Issues are best welding/brazing method, filler, and flux selections.Since the crack is open, the piece is deformed.  Can the crack be closed using a clamp or vice?  Issues are fit-up during re-installation, need to drill crack ends to prevent crack propagation, and pre- and post-weld heating and cooling of work piece.What does the back side of the cracked section look like?  Is it solid or hollow?  How deep is crack?Issues are need to grind out crack and need to weld from other side.There may be other considerations/questions that other members can add.
Reply:Take a disc grinder to it..Dark red sparks that sort of "Fizzle" it's cast iron..Light red sparks is cast steel..Or slightly drill it with a 1/8" bit somewhere where there is some meat..If the "Chips" are more dust than anything then it's cast iron..See what you come up with and we will take it from there.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Having never welded Cast iron before, i would torch braze it. I'd drill out the ends of the cracks, and then "V" them out, and braze away. Stick welding would be another option, but with specialty rods, pre-heating, and burying in sand for the cool down.[Account Abandoned 8/8/16 Please Do Not Attempt Contact Or Expect A Reply]. See you on YouTube! -ChuckE2009
Reply:I hit it on the bench grinder and it was darker sparks.Drilled in it and you could rub the shavings between your fingers and they would turn to dust."Having never welded Cast iron before, i would torch braze it. I'd drill out the ends of the cracks, and then "V" them out, and braze away"         What kind of braze? Do you think that would hold up to all the  hydraulic pressure?
Reply:I would expect a part like that to be cast iron; not valuable enough to cast from steel, and CI should be good enough.Do you know what caused the break in the first place? It doesn't look like there's a water jacket there which might have frozen, does it? Is the area of the break rusty, oil soaked or otherwise contaminated?More pictures showing the bottom and where the cylinder is might give a better idea about what stresses would be expected on the repair. I'd suggest your asking Castweld to give you advice about which alloy to use, how to use it and how to preheat/postheat  the part. I'll start by asking what alloys and other equipment you have available, or whether you have a favorite, good welding supplier near you?
Reply:I don't really know what happened to cause the break.No water jacket,part of tractor hydraulics.There is a little rust,and it is very oily due to oil spraying out.I guess it was a bad casting.I tried to take pictures of the other side but thy didn't turn out too good.I can get access to just about any kind of equipment,and have a National Welders close by.It cracked all the way around where the cylinder walls meet the solid top.Imagine looking down into a drinking glass and seeing a crack around the entire inside of the base.
Reply:looks like the lift arm was overloaded maybe...  notice the cracks are running toward the holes with the red outline.  First thing is how to get all the hydraulic fluid out of the pores of the casting.  maybe submerge in  TCE or tuol  and then steam clean.   I have seem my uncle repair lots of cast partsby preheating with propane up to about 600 (so the whole part is 600)  and then braze crack areawith brass.  Problem is that the part is not broken in two.....  so the part is currently distorted.I am suprises that it would "bend" that much if it were cast iron.  I bet it is maleable cast otherwiseI think it would have broken  "clean off" with no streaching deformation.( to quote Inspector Callahan )Tim
Reply:I'd be concerened the cylinder for the lift piston is distorted. Either when it split, or when you try and repair it. Not sure if it will be possible to get the piston to seal if the bore is distorted. If it was just the end you might be Ok, but if it's damaged up the length you may be F'd..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Cast iron is not a mystery metal to be misunderstood or welded/brazed without a proper and proven weld/braze procedure which includes preheating to total heat soak saturation which is needed for PROPER procedural compliance, proper filler alloys, proper part preparation. Cast iron cannot stretch and withstand the contraction and hardening caused by cast welding with preheating below 1200 deg. F.  Cast iron requires preheat of at LEAST 900 deg. F. for brazing and 1200 deg. F. for fusion welding.Like all high carbon steels, cast iron has a critical temperature at which it can be hardened or annealed For most grades of cast iron, that temperature is 1500°F. Cast iron is heat treatable to a very high hardness, up to Rc 65. This hardening can make machining difficult, if not impossible. And remember that machining includes drilling and tapping. The harder cast iron gets, the less ductility and strength it has. If the iron is cooled rapidly by quenching, or even by the surrounding iron drawing the heat down quickly, hardening will occur. If the casting is maintained at 1500°F for at least 30 minutes and cooled to 1200°F over another 30 minutes, the iron will be annealed and the effects of the hardening avoided.If the weld cracks, or the iron next to the weld cracks, the part was too cold when it was welded. If the cast iron next to the weld gets hard, the part cooled too quickly.It really is as simple as that. And it will not be the casting's fault if it cracks or hardens, it will be the fault of the person controlling the temperature.It is probably obvious to you by now that in order to properly stress relieve and anneal cast iron, you must be working at very high temperaturesHere are some preheating and welding procedures to help you perform cast iron repairs that are predictable and reliable.BrazingThe casting must be preheated to at least 900ºF before you begin increasing the temperature in the area you want to braze. The bronze rod will melt at around 1725ºF. A good bonding temperature is 1800ºF. The casting should be positioned so that you are brazing on an incline of at least 30 degrees. Avoid "in position" or flat brazing as this causes pin holes, cold laps, and burnt edges. Brazing uphill allows you to fill the vee from bottom to top in one pass. Small, thin steps allow you to move quickly and keep the area ahead of the puddle tinned. Be sure to post heat to normalize the casting at 900ºF. Slow cool the part over 24 hours. Wrap it Kaowool, insulation, fire blanket, DRY sand, or even better vermiculite.Many people believe bronze to be an inferior metal to use on cast iron.* Actually, bronze matches cast iron closely in hardness and metal to metal wear resistance.* Gray cast iron has a maximum tensile strength of 40,000 PSI.* And ductile iron (or nodular) can reach 75,000 PSI tensile strength.* Common bare bronze is 70,000 PSi tensile strength.**Corners, ears, and endsIt is impossible to create stress on corners, ears and ends.* A good illustration of this is if you welded two pieces of welding rod together.* The ends have nothing to expand against, therefore there is no confinement.* After joining the two pieces together, the heated area can contract and shrink without creating stress.* If you*must*use a nickel rod on cast iron, use it only on corners, ears and ends.* Preheat the area with a torch to a dull red, arc weld it and immediately post heat with the same torch.* It is best to use two people, one to preheat and post heat and the other to weld.* Timing is critical.* You will also need to use less amps when the iron is preheated.* Your best bet is to learn how to braze and forget the welder.*Oxy-Fuel Fusion welding Fusion welding is used primarily on dense castings that can be machined after the welding is done.* (Cylinder heads are excellent subjects for fusion welding but engine blocks are not.)* A 1300ºF to 1500ºF preheat is required.* For a heating source, use natural gas or diesel fuel.* Do not use propane.* Use oxy-acetylene gas and bare cast iron rod for the fusion welding process.* Heat the part and maintain it at bright red during the entire welding procedure.* Cast iron melts at approximately 2300ºF.* A post heat of 1300ºF to 1500ºF for 15 minutes is needed.* Slow cool the part over 24 hours.Electric Fusion weldingThis is the poorest of all choices for welding cast iron.* It would be nice if it would work, but it causes so many problems it should be avoided if at all possible.* The heat potential is great and the process causes the heat to be too localized.* Thin sections heat faster and cool quicker than thick sections.* If a section of the casting is heated too quickly, the surrounding area does not have ample time to absorb enough heat to allow the casting to have a uniform temperature.* This causes restricted expansion and contraction.* It occurs when the weld affected area is contained by cooler iron.* This will always result in some stress.* Often it is enough stress to cause additional cracking.* There is no such thing as cold arc welding; cast iron melts at 2300ºF.* No professional industrial cast iron welder would ever arc weld on a casting heated to less than 1200ºF. With high nickel based cast iron repair rod, we can tell no difference between one manufacturer's rod and another.* There are repairs where we must use nickel rod, such as on some of our various compressors* In some of these cases, H2S gas is present and bronze is not acceptable.* We will preheat* to 1200ºF before welding, followed by a long post heat to a uniform 1200ºF before a 24 hour cool down.* The critical part of the cool down is from 1800ºF to 1200ºF.**I say stick with the oxy-fuel brazing, prep it nice and clean, open it up, heat it up, braze it up, cool it slow, and enjoy.
Reply:Hi, this is my first post here.First off being it's a hyd cylinder casting I would just buy a new part.If you want to try it yourself this is what I would do. First the crack needs to be closed for the purpose of the cyl. bore. I would use a ni based dc rod. Tac it so it stays closed and grind it out to about 2/3's the thickness of the crack with a U groove.Preheat the casting so you can just hold your hand on it. Back weld with 1/2" to 1" stitch welds and peen the welds with an air chisel. After each stitch wait until you can place your hand on it again. the ends of the cracks would have to be done as well.This will be a long process so be patient.Welding with brass would be fine if you can preheat and hold the temperature and control the cooling.I have done a fair bit of cast welding this way for agricultural equipment that is exposed to some extreme shock conditions with good results.BTW, any tractor castings I've ever seen are cast iron.Good luck