Cup walking Vs. Free hand

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I have been seeing this argued left and right for years and years.  What is your prefrence? What shows more skills at your craft?
Reply:This is just MY opinion. But in the boiler id say 95% of the time walking the cup is not possible. The old school boilermakers i was taught by ( who were bloody machines) said basically "walking the cup is a crutch and has no place in my plant, you learn to freehand when i teach you." and thats been engrained in my brain since day one and thats how i teach my apprentices. and id say even 80% of our in-situ welds in the plant on piping systems wether it be new or replacing you arent in convienient enough spots to walkk the cup anyway.  When jobs get to big for us at our plant they call in welders from the hall who almost all "walk the cup" ( new guys ) i do see some older fellas who still run freehand, and when they get into the boiler they find out quickly that there technique is useless, and have even seen guys leave because they are confident enough to put in a tig root without resting the cup on the pipe. Walking the cup however does make a nice weld and has its place for sure, but you become so profieicnet over the years freehanding in all situations that your able to lay down with the best guys who walk the cup..... so you tell me which takes more skill?
Reply:Having steady hand posture is a blessing, and is trainable to a high degree.............if you begin your welding career early in life......and stay at it.But Father Time has sneaky ways of casting that steadiness to the wind as one ages.Cup walking may in fact be "a crutch" that some folks are tempted to use BEFORE it becomes "necessary" due to issues that come from aging.My opinion is: Develop your skills to become deft as possible using the free hand technique, but know when (and how) to lean on cup walking as an alternative, there may come a time when you are no longer as steady handed as you once were.Let's not try to create an artificial "caste ranking" based on "free handers" versus "cup walkers".
Reply:I just bring this up because I witnessed Jesse James rip apart a welder for his cup walking. Telling him its just another way to hid his truly ****ty welds.  I think its a crutch for sure but has its place.. makes for easy piping work.
Reply:I free hand most things. Long joints and pipe when I'm able to i will walk the cup. Its not a crutch, its using your head to find a better way to do something.Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:If you're making a jack stand weld, why would you not walk the cup?Any real welder can do both.
Reply:I was taught both. I mainly free hand it though, since I find it easier and quicker for me. My father who is also a welder, walks the cup, he don't free hand, unless he has to, and he says walking the cup is faster and eaiser. So, two different welders, two different generation gaps, take it for it's worth. lolI agree, any good skilled welder, should be able to do both.
Reply:To me it's like arguing over thumb technique for professional guitarists. Really, the the only thing that matters is how it SOUNDS, not how a guitarist looks doing it! If they hit all the notes, on time and in key, well, it's pro. I figure a great welder is true to the weld, and not to the critics. If the weld is sound, and has great aesthetics, who gives a crap how they got there?Sure, we ALL should be able to freehand, and well. But AFIAC, whatever it takes to achieve the best weld is more important than what it took to make it. Al Dimeola might disagree....Motorboating...in the Cleavage of the Tetons
Reply:Originally Posted by MrWeldSoCalI just bring this up because I witnessed Jesse James rip apart a welder for his cup walking.
Reply:Originally Posted by TimmyTIGIf you're making a jack stand weld, why would you not walk the cup?Any real welder can do both.
Reply:Both require user skill. Any pipe welder (not boilermaker) should know how to do both.There are a lot of places (nukes for example) where they'll require pipefitter/welders to walk. No options.Knowing both is money in the bank in industrial pipe world.Relying on that tv dude for real world welding advise is pretty goofy. He wouldn't make any test known to man on a pipe job.Best bet for a working man is to find out what feeds the kids, and lern it, live it, love it : )J
Reply:I free hand... walking the cup is honestly difficult for me and I have a hard time moving the cup along. The only and only time I've used it is vertical mild steel.
Reply:Your just NOT going to get into any serious pipe work without being proficient at walking the cup. Time is money and walking the cup is faster on bigger stuff, period.
Reply:Originally Posted by TSCGG13I free hand... walking the cup is honestly difficult for me and I have a hard time moving the cup along. The only and only time I've used it is vertical mild steel.
Reply:Originally Posted by JTMcCBoth require user skill. Any pipe welder (not boilermaker) should know how to do both.There are a lot of places (nukes for example) where they'll require pipefitter/welders to walk. No options.Knowing both is money in the bank in industrial pipe world.Relying on that tv dude for real world welding advise is pretty goofy. He wouldn't make any test known to man on a pipe job.Best bet for a working man is to find out what feeds the kids, and lern it, live it, love it : )J
Reply:I would agree that it depends on what's being welded. I always walk when I have room to do so, however I always free hand my root passes as I was taught never to walk them. Also its very difficult to try and get away with it on small pipe 3" and under. Definitely not recommended for any kind of 6g test lol. What was said about about a good welder being able to do both techniques and when to apply them holds true
Reply:I started out in the boilermakers years ago , so I started out free handing. I went over to pipe and started walking the cup. Is good to know both. for pipe I walk the cup on it I will but if I cant due to no room I will not fight with it, ill free hand it.  Unless you live in front of a set of jack stands you need to be able to free hand. I got alot of work because I  could weld in spots were others could not and it was only because i could free hand
Reply:Originally Posted by dvaWhat nuke requires walking the cup?
Reply:Originally Posted by JTMcCPalo Verde and San Onofre are a couple. It was Bechtel policy for years that nobody could test free hand. J
Reply:worked for bectel in the 70's on several nukes and we were required to walk unless it was determined by QC that there was no room and then free handing was allowed.
Reply:Where I work, we did a ton of nqa1 for Bechtel when they were building the vitrification facilities at Hanford. It was all heavy wall 316L and every single pipe weld was walked. I don't want to say it was required, but I find it peculiar there was no free hand welds at all, especially considering there's plenty of guys capable of doing so
Reply:I can do both, but for the most part I prefer to freehand it. They say its easier to walk it but I always felt I had more control watching edges and feathering it freehand. Hot as a bastard today, and wiped from work but fig'd I would make a quick pass at home and have a few beers and post something up here!  Attached ImagesI hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Looks good Mike, almost as good as mine Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:I tried walking it once and did not like the outcome so I have stuck with free hand tig since then.  There are guys on other shifts where I work that I wish they would walk the cup and the stick for that matter because their free hand work sucks like a fat kid trying to drink a Wendy's shake through a coffee stirring stick.Welding Supervisor Department of Corrections.
Reply:I wish I was as good at both, I can free hand very well but my cup walking isnt as close to perfect as I would like it to be.. But I come from a rollcage background so having all that room to move your arm doesnt apply.  And VISEGRIPS are your best friendHow far does the tungsten stick out when walking the cup same as freehand???
Reply:I think it depends on a few different things, like bevel angle and root opening, root face depth...  I never have a specific stick out, just what feels good. Adjust on the fly
Reply:Like said above and give enough room so you don't accidently dip while rolling. I prefer on the long side and lay the torch back to give me the room I need. I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Please pardon my ignorance but when referring to the free hand technique do you mean dipping the filler as you would normally or are you referring to weaving, just not rolling on the cup? I know what walking the cup is.
Reply:Originally Posted by fronty_78Please pardon my ignorance but when referring to the free hand technique do you mean dipping the filler as you would normally or are you referring to weaving, just not rolling on the cup? I know what walking the cup is.
Reply:With free hand if it either a fillet or a deep groove the cup can still touch but my moves are made by not relying on my cups contact with the work piece. I dont rock or roll the cup to create my consistancy
Reply:Originally Posted by dbl612worked for bectel in the 70's on several nukes and we were required to walk unless it was determined by QC that there was no room and then free handing was allowed.
Reply:You need to know how to do both.
Reply:I've never tried walking the cup.  When it cools down here in Az. I plan on trying it.  I've been free handing my whole live and don't really want to try something new if it hinders me later on.---No good deed goes unpunished---
Reply:I as well have never walked the cup. I think about 5 years ago I may have tried it for like 2" and that was it.
Reply:I've been walking the cup on 2", 5", and 6" in 2g, 5g, and 6g and I can say it helps for getting work done fast and pretty. The only thing I free hand are tacks, and the occasional root in 2g. Pipe gets too hot for my finger to brace on in the baby soft fancy gloves I use for tig. We don't get "taught" free hand in school.. I usually get one of the old timers to show me after hours but it takes a damn sight more work to make pretty. For me anyway. I'll keep working on it but if I can stick it, then screw a tig fill and cap.
Reply:Freehand the root, walk the cup for fill and cap. I feel as walking the cup is more difficult than freehand, I learned to freehand then walk the cup because I couldn't walk the cup very well. Passed my 6g XX TIG carbon steel with no walking the cup, because I couldn't!