Tungsten Length?

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Hi Guys, please forgive me if this is a stupid question but I am just starting to learn how to tig weld and have been buying consumables based on the advice posted on this site.  I purchased a few packages of various diameter tungsten electrodes that are 7" in length.  My question is that even with the long back cap on the Welcraft 20 style torch, the tungsten is still too long to fit even after sharpening and sticks out way too far.   Am I supposed to cut off an inch or so to make it fit which seems like a waste of material, cut them in half or am I missing something?Thank you in advance for any advice, comments, suggestions and guidance that might be offered.Joe...Last edited by jbacc; 02-06-2011 at 03:29 PM.
Reply:Cut them in half, thirds, fourths or whatever length you want and sharpen both ends.  Ready to use without having to stop and sharpen each time you dip the end."The man of great wealth owes a peculiar obligation to the State, because he derives special advantages from the mere existence of government."  Teddy RooseveltAmerican by birth, Union by choice!  Boilermakers # 60America is a Union.
Reply:Cut into half with a wire cutter or jus thold it against the wheel you use to sharpen it.1/2 works the very best IMO....Don't just shave an inch as you'll likely not be able to use that inch....and will simply be throwing it away.GL1981 Lincoln SA 200Miller Trailblazer 302gMiller 211 Mig Welder w/ AutosetI'm learning to stick metal together
Reply:I break mine into 4 equal pieces...DO NOT try to break them by hand or else you will be sorry..I use a vice and flat pliers for the job..Lock and break.I also use the smallest end cap there is..Long caps get in the way when you are trying to get in small places.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Guys, thanks so much for the advice, I truly appreciate it.  Regards,Joe...
Reply:i too cut in half a pack of 10 turns into 20idealarc 250/250 ac-dc tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tig #2 used for sticklincoln sp100hh125dual arbor grinder polisher30 yrs of hand tools52 pitch blocks 6p-26prake gauge -pitch gaugeG&D prop repair 918-207-6938Hulbert,okla 74441
Reply:Wearing safety glasses and gloves when cutting and sharpening tungsten electrode is a real good practice.  They are brittle and eject shards when they break.  Also, if you haven't read it here or been told, use a dedicated grinding wheel for your electrodes to prevent cross-contamination with other metals.  Miller and Lincoln site have instructional material on sharpening electrodes.TeddCoHTP Microcut 400 & Invertig 160DC  Smith Dual Guard MD-510 OA Rig  Lincoln SP135+  Hobart Stickmate LX 235/160
Reply:My brand new tungstens fit into every torch ive ever used (17/18/20's) just fine, including ones with short gas lens setups.  I dont understand why people feel the need to make them shorter.Have we all gone mad?
Reply:Originally Posted by sn0border88My brand new tungstens fit into every torch ive ever used (17/18/20's) just fine, including ones with short gas lens setups.  I dont understand why people feel the need to make them shorter.
Reply:I agree with ZAPSTER.I was taught to put them in a vice with a sharp edge, and the tap the end you want to break off with a pliers. It makes a clean 90º break.I do not recommend sharpening both ends. And the reason is, is that since one end will have no color code you could them mixed up.  When you sharpen both ends you lose more material,  you can use it longer with just one end sharpened.Save your tungstens that are too short. It is a precious metal and could be recycled.AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:Originally Posted by jsm11Mine do not fit with a button cap on the back side....
Reply:I usually split them on a thin diamond wheel on my tungsten sharpener, and I have various lengths and diameters, ranging from 1 inch to full length. Sharpen both ends on a whole pile and go to town!  I take it you might not have a tungsten grinder, so get a good quality silicon carbide wheel "usually green" for your bench grinder, and use a drill to hold the turn the tungsten vertically against the wheel, grinding to the desired angle. Of all metals in pure form, tungsten has the highest melting point 3,422 degrees Celsius, and the highest tensile strength. Tungsten also has the lowest coefficient of thermal expansion of any pure metal. Coefficient of thermal expansion is the tendency of matter to change in volume in response to a change in temperature. More specifically the degree of expansion divided by the change in temperature is the material's coefficient of thermal expansion and generally varies with temperature. Therefore, generally, but not always, when a substance has a low coefficient of thermal expansion, it also possesses very high thermal conductivity, which is the quantity of heat transmitted, due to unit temperature gradient, in unit time under steady conditions in a direction normal to a surface of unit area. In laymens terms solids mostly expand in response to heating and contract on cooling. This response to temperature change is expressed as its coefficient of thermal expansion, or simply expansion/contraction.Furthermore, heat transfer is classified into various mechanisms, such as heat conduction, convection, thermal radiation, and phase-change transfer. It is beyond the scope of this discussion to dive any deeper into the physics, but this is of high importance to us weldors, and therefore my rule of thumb is when I can run a longer tungsten I will when I am running high amps in the upper range of the tungsten, as it acts as a very effective heat sink drawing heat away from the tungsten tip, hence the "fluting" on the back cap acting as heat sink in itself, drawing thermal radiation from the tungsten electrode. This design offers more surface area to cool that hot tungsten, which in turn slows tungsten degradation by retarding grain growth. This in turn also benefits the  collet, collet body, and whatnot, which will help longevity, and when running a air cooled torch, anything to help keep it cool, no matter how minuet, is a blessing from the heavens.Keep it Square and Level,Weldor
Reply:In the weldcraft catalog they suggest cutting (grinding) tungsten and not breaking it off to avoid splintering it. I've had some that seemed to crack right up the center a little ways and I've started grinding the end off when I dunk it instead of breaking it. (I'm asking and not telling, Zap and some of the others here are far better at this than I am). Has anybody else seen this to be an issue?KevinHobart Handler 210Tweco Fabricator 181iLincoln Squarewave Tig 175
Reply:Originally Posted by jbaccMy question is that even with the long back cap on the Welcraft 20 style torch, the tungsten is still too long to fit even after sharpening and sticks out way too far.
Reply:Originally Posted by jsm11Mine do not fit with a button cap on the back side....
Reply:I buy plastic storage boxes at the art supply stores with sections just over 7" long, and store tungstens in the various sections. I print out a label and tape it under the lid. Works great.
Reply:I was in the middle of editing my post above, but the system disallowed my edit due to an annoying time restriction.  I was going to add back in a question I had in a previous revision that I just noticed someone else answered; here it is:"PS - You guys who routinely cut your tungstens into halves or thirds - how to you store your shortened tungstens? I usually store my tungstens in their hard plastic 10-pack containers, which works great for me when the tungstens are long enough to easily see them and retrieve them from the container. However it doesn't work well when the tungstens are shortened (hard to dig shortened tungstens out of the bottom of the container)"
Reply:Originally Posted by jakeruSince going to a "stubby" collet setup on my #17 style torch (which adapts a WP9/20 cup onto a WP17 style torch), I have the same problem of not being able to fit a full 7" long tungsten in the torch anymore.  I wish I had a backcap that was about an inch longer.
Reply:I'm at work so I can't post a picture but I am using a gas lens setup and even with the long back cap on I cannot use the full 7" electrode. Originally Posted by jakeruCan you post a picture of your torch setup?If you have a "short/stubby" collet/collet body/cup setup on your torch (which adapts a #24 gas cup onto your 9/20 torch) the end of the cup will be about 1/2" shorter than the standard 9/20 cup.  This might possibly explain why your backcap seems to be too short.Since going to a "stubby" collet setup on my #17 style torch (which adapts a WP9/20 cup onto a WP17 style torch), I have the same problem of not being able to fit a full 7" long tungsten in the torch anymore.  I wish I had a backcap that was about an inch longer.
Reply:Originally Posted by trackbirdIn the weldcraft catalog they suggest cutting (grinding) tungsten and not breaking it off to avoid splintering it. I've had some that seemed to crack right up the center a little ways and I've started grinding the end off when I dunk it instead of breaking it. (I'm asking and not telling, Zap and some of the others here are far better at this than I am). Has anybody else seen this to be an issue?
Reply:I was told a long time ago to never break your tungsten. I was doing it at a friends work who let me use there welder and some guy about killed me when he seen me break the tungsten just like you said Zap. He sad that is the worst thing you can do to the tungsten it splinters and you cant see the cracks and will cause you arc to wonder and be unstable. Now after being here for a while now and stopping by about every day to glance over the new post I would say that You Zap are a knowledgeable very experienced welder. Have you never had a problem doing it this way? It was about 4 years ago and I havent broke a tungsten since then.
Reply:I do this at least once a week..No problems....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:Originally Posted by sn0border88My brand new tungstens fit into every torch ive ever used (17/18/20's) just fine, including ones with short gas lens setups.