Stainless Steel Newbee Question

admin

Hey guys,Let me first say that I have no tools of my own yet and I'm totally new to welding, period. I'm doing some body piercing/tattoo work in trade for some equipment that I have yet to see in person. Basically I just want something to practice with and get a feel for. But I have this project in mind and a concern about it. If I happen to get stuck with one of those $100, 90A, Harbor Freight wire feed machines, will it have enough power to weld thin SS like that of a beer keg? I'm trying to get ahold of a decent MIG welder but until I can afford one outright, I might be stuck with some crappy, low power box at first. Should I not attempt welding on a keg with a little machine like that at all? Since I'm unemployed and every dollar is tight I wouldn't want to screw up the materials I need for this project. Thank you!Mike
Reply:Tig would be a better process for welding fittings into a keg for something like a brew kettle. I've seen people weld fittings into kegs with mig and I've yet to see one of those people do a good job, not to say it couldn't be done. Even a little machine will put out enough heat for something thin like a keg and a 1/2 fitting. You may be better off paying somebody a few bucks to do it right and practice on some other stuff to get your welding skill up to snuff.
Reply:For a beginner you are way in over your head.To weld that Beer keg (it is actually a tank) could be dangerous depending what has been in the tank. You cannot depend on hearsay.There is no way a $90.00 welding machine will work.The larger the piece of aluminum is the more heat it takes to weld it.So if you try welding on a 2 inch square piece of metal, It does not mean you will be able to weld a 2 square FOOT piece of metal because that larger size will give off heat as fast as you are trying to put the heat into it.Also never weld on a tank unless you are building a brand new tank and even then a new aluminum tank is filled with dry ice first. There is a mathmatical formula to figure out how much dry ice will be required and how long it will last.AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:Dang.Guess I shouldn't have built all those aluminum fuel cells for our raceboats, since I didn't have any dry ice handy.Exactly what is it that's explosive/dangerous about welding new aluminum in a tank form?Donald,I think you've got a lot of "welding knowledge" filed away, but you really come up with some "off the wall" BS at times.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:I'm have zero doubt that welding stainless takes experience. I totally understand that I may not be able to do this but it could be fun to try. The keg is a Sanke beer keg, stainless steel, not aluminum. Quasi had the right idea about the brew kettle. This is a home brew related project (a still). Basically I would like to cut an 8" hole from the top (after removing the valve/spear, rinsing & drying) and weld a steel bowl around that as a the base of the still head. I'll then cut a hole in the bottom of the bowl to either braze the copper still head onto or I'll find some SS tube to weld to that for the column. Another option is just leaving the spear port as is & welding a 2" steel ferrule onto it for a tri-clamp column.I would also like to cut two small (1.5") holes in the sides at the bottom and weld some steel slip nuts around them so I can mount some water heater elements into that. I'm pretty broke so I likely won't be able to pay someone much to do this for me and besides that, I'm just plain curious to get familiar with the practices I'll need to master to do this kind of work. I've just begun to read on the matter and from what I see there are 300 series wires available to weld  SS. I'm not sure what the keg is made of (304?) but maybe I could use something like 308L wire if I'm using a SS kitchen bowl (316?) as the base of the still head? Unless the keg & bowl are both 316 then as I understand it, I should use 316 wire.Maybe I've got more ambition than sense; it's happened before. Thanks.MikeLast edited by Misant777; 01-18-2011 at 01:08 PM.
Reply:I'll agree on one point.More ambition than sense.Let me get this straight.You're broke and unemployed?You're worried about how to build a "home brew" system.What's wrong with this picture?Is being broke, unemployed, AND DRUNK, improve your situation?Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Oh, I'm sorry, did I join the @sshole web forums by mistake?I'm not an alcoholic, I enjoy the craft is all. During times of boring unemployment I've done all manner of interesting things. Since I have several degrees behind me, I've built high powered cutting lasers, robotics and was at work on a maser when I found myself unable to source waveguide. Presently I own & operate a body piercing salon but with the economy as it is, times are tight. I'm merely seeking to expand an area of interest that may suit me as a hobby and hopefully in time, a career. Is that a problem or do you somehow think you know me well enough to start passing armchair judgment? Who knows, maybe your issue is just your wife not wanting to screw you anymore?Maybe that narrow head of yours needs a little widening out. Or maybe you need your toys taken away so you can pursue a different skill set in a bad economy and have a taste for yourself, kiddo.With that said, I'm not really interested in measuring dicks or sparring with egotist douchebags. I simply would like to address the points made in my previous post, ok?Last edited by Misant777; 01-18-2011 at 04:13 PM.
Reply:Hi Ya Misant777 you might try bartering your body piercing/tattoo work in trade for some welding lessons. Great way to not only get the equipment but maybe some lessons on it.Co-Own CNC shop:Miller :1251 plasma cutter, MaxStar 700 TIG/Stick, & XMT 456 Multiprocess Welder.&  2 Hypertherm HPR260's Plasma CutterSorry I had a bad stroke but now I am back.
Reply:Actually I would love some lessons! Bartering is actually how I'm acquiring what little equipment I've got lined up. I'm all about trading and if there's anyone in the Portland/Metro area who's willing to teach in exchange for piercing, home brew or whatever, I'm game!
Reply:Damb, SundownIII, me thinks you just got bitchslapped!!ɹǝʌo ǝɯ lloɹ 'sıɥʇ pɐǝɹ uɐɔ noʎ ɟı
Reply:Yepper,Didn't know they awarded "advanced degrees" in body piercing.Spent enough time in places where the "bad guys" were trying to do their own form of body piercing on me not to seek it out voluntarily.Guess it's a "generation gap" thing.  If I was "down on my luck" think I'd be more worried about providing for myself and family than I would be about putting together a "home brew" system.Pissant777,Sounds like you know about as much about welding as I do about body piercing.  I'd recommend you do a "lot more study" or leave the welding to those who know what they're doing.I'd say you got the "punk" part down pretty pat.  Now why don't you try your hand at doing something that can put food on the table.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIDang.Guess I shouldn't have built all those aluminum fuel cells for our raceboats, since I didn't have any dry ice handy.Exactly what is it that's explosive/dangerous about welding new aluminum in a tank form?Donald,I think you've got a lot of "welding knowledge" filed away, but you really come up with some "off the wall" BS at times.
Reply:I like you SundownIII.  you're just as much of a prick as I am!Sometimes very helpful, and other times full of useless babble!  Like now.What are you, his dad?????  lighten up.  He asked a simple welding question.He said times are tight.  He didn't say he couldn't feed his family - oh, wait, how the hell would we know he has a family? he never mentioned that!ɹǝʌo ǝɯ lloɹ 'sıɥʇ pɐǝɹ uɐɔ noʎ ɟı
Reply:You will not be able to weld Stainless steel with a 110V wire feed welding machine and if especially if you are broke. A spool of 308L welding wire is very expensive, and you would need expensive tri mix gas also.You are correct 308L for 304 base metal, and 316L for 316 base metal.the "L" stand for low carbon content.I did try that once and I was able to get a toothpaste like weld on some very thin 22 ga. scraps but basically the outcome of the experiment was that it will not work. It WILL work with a 220v wire feed.You would still be limited on the thickness.You really would be better off trading services for the welding that you need for your project.If you can arrange it.Last edited by Donald Branscom; 01-18-2011 at 07:38 PM.AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIYepper,Didn't know they awarded "advanced degrees" in body piercing.I'd say you got the "punk" part down pretty pat.  Now why don't you try your hand at doing something that can put food on the table.
Reply:HOW expensive is 308 wire?i can buy 2lb for around 23-26 bux in .030 thats not to bad it can be done with a 120v welder just wont be like tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tig #2 used for sticklincoln sp100hh125dual arbor grinder polisher30 yrs of hand tools52 pitch blocks 6p-26prake gauge -pitch gaugeG&D prop repair 918-207-6938Hulbert,okla 74441
Reply:Ok, cool. Thank you for the pertinent info guys. I appreciate it. I'll see if I can manage to land some better equipment in the mix somehow and try my hand on scraps as they become available. Peace.
Reply:Originally Posted by prop-doctorHOW expensive is 308 wire?i can buy 2lb for around 23-26 bux in .030 thats not to bad it can be done with a 120v welder just wont be like tig
Reply:Hi Missant777, sooo… you’re gonna do the renaissance man thing… Cool!First an opinion, then a recommendation. Welding thin wall stainless takes a pretty full toolbox (toolbox defined as the link between the mind, hand, task and equipment). I’m thinking Eagle Scout, artist in the fullness of years or  a scratch golfer. It only takes a blink of the eye to make a perfect turd with thin wall stainless (then you got nothing but a hole that you can't fill). Picking up welding to gain knowledge and be handy is good but this is the deep end of the pool.The advice would be to network and find an HVAC guy who likes beer. Get a little advice, buy or scrounge some parts, get some beer and let the guy silver solder the thing together (and teach you how). Then make some more beer! Then you either keep the welder and work with it or trade etc, That’s all I got…Good luck!Matt
Reply:I've got a nice Canadian winter ale in the works & 5 gallons of wine to bottle up. Cheers!
Reply:You can also get into sourdough bread... and by accident come up with some whup-azz rye! You won't need all that put together stuff, just patience...Matt
Reply:sorry  just some mig gas for SS  http://www.weldreality.com/MIG_welding_gases.htm uses argon and co2idealarc 250/250 ac-dc tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tig #2 used for sticklincoln sp100hh125dual arbor grinder polisher30 yrs of hand tools52 pitch blocks 6p-26prake gauge -pitch gaugeG&D prop repair 918-207-6938Hulbert,okla 74441
Reply:lol. Sounds like a plan!
Reply:I'm actually building the same thing right now. For a friend of mine, srsly.Do not cut a giant hole in the top of your keg. It will just be that much bigger for you to fill up. There is almost no reason to need to get inside a super micro still kettle, modern chemicals are wonderful. Just remove the spear and valve from the keg and slip a 2" TC fitting in the neck as you suggested, then step up from there if you want a larger diameter column. If you fancy at trip to Bend I'd be willing to help out with your project.
Reply:I may be a bit late to this party but anyway...Like quasi said - tri-clamp baby - it makes life soooo much easier. Especially if you get a 2" threaded adapter so you can inter-change your heads. SS 1" half-couplings work great to mount your hot water heater elements. As was said earlier - kegs are generally very _thin_ walled so need extra care. I didn't even bother trying to weld mine (don't have a real nice welder), I brazed with oxy/propane. This still takes some practice - you need to go to the junk yard and practice until you feel comfortable... (for me this took a while! Others on this forum would probably do this without any trouble). This is a fairly cheap option and works really well. And don't forget to get at least 4 couplings (two elements, a drain and a filler port)If you are into the hobby for the long haul (as I was) you may want to consider gas brazing. You may be able to get a small 20 of oxy at your local supply for a reasonable price, and torch kits can be had on ebay quite cheaply as well. If you do ever go oxy/propane, don't forget to make sure your hoses are grade "T" and invest in propane torch tip if you do any cutting...Hope this helps...Originally Posted by Donald BranscomHave you actually tried it?