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Trying to determine the "order of battle" [fitup, tack(s), and full-penetration] for those custom aluminum manifolds. The manifold below, selected randomly online, consists of top (manifold to carb/supercharger), middle (runners), and bottom (manifold-to-heads) subsections.The Question: How would you fitup, tack, and burn-in the manifold? Controlling geometry, minimizing HAZs on subsections, and nominal TIG parameters (e.g. 230A, 1/8" Tungsten, 1/8" 4340/5356 filler, preheat, etc)? Welding the medial/constrained runner sections seems to require a smaller TIG torch and a touch of dark energy. Ha!Thread not intended to generate "Best Welder on the Planet Earth" discussions. Many welding wizards here fabricate custom intake manifolds. Really interested in learning the how-why approach of fitup/tacking/welding the unit. For example, read an awesome post where ZTFab showed his "backstep" technique, complete with colored arrows showing how/why he tacked/welded OCJs on a large rectangular enclosure. Learned a ton studying that one picture and mentally walking through the steps.Welcome all comments. Attached Images"Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...ghlight=IntakeLots of info in the thread.Made from scratch..Started out as flat sheet..ALL of it.You will need...Dummy..Blown up...Spare....Block of the engine you will be fabricating for..Bare set of heads to go with it.Bolt and torque the heads in place with gaskets.This is your starting point.Now it's all a matter of cut and fit.....Are you making or buying your own intake flanges?Are you making or buying the runners?Are you making or buying the carb mounting flange?How about the gussets and mounting places for linkage and etc?You will need all the parts done and ready to go before doing anything.Once the intake flanges are bolted and torqued to the heads you just tack it together here and there to make it "One Piece"...Keep in mind that you will need to be able to get your torch where it needs to be to weld all around whatever you are doing without anything getting in the way..You must also realize that once the final welding takes place you CAN NOT STOP and "finish it tomorrow"..Once it gets hot then you must finish it and that's that.It took me 10 hrs or so to complete it.Let it cool overnight BEFORE unbolting it so it will "Settle In"...You have a major amount of work ahead so go slow and make sure you have everything you will need on hand before starting.Running out of filler (4043) or Argon will be a major bummer..Good luck and post pics.....zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:@ Zap - Thanks for the explanation. Makes sense. Massive talent & time to get this one perfect. Your "Keep in mind that you will need to be able to get your torch where it needs to be to weld all around whatever you are doing without anything getting in the way." is what really resonates. Need to think/think ahead and plan for the next step(s). Dip'n filler and manipulating the torch around both ends of the constrained runners.......amazing!Will be sure to rip through your thread to gain additonal insight!Last edited by ManoKai; 07-27-2013 at 01:02 PM."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterhttp://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...ghlight=IntakeLots of info in the thread.Made from scratch..Started out as flat sheet..ALL of it.You will need...Dummy..Blown up...Spare....Block of the engine you will be fabricating for..Bare set of heads to go with it.Bolt and torque the heads in place with gaskets.This is your starting point.Now it's all a matter of cut and fit.....Are you making or buying your own intake flanges?Are you making or buying the runners?Are you making or buying the carb mounting flange?How about the gussets and mounting places for linkage and etc?You will need all the parts done and ready to go before doing anything.Once the intake flanges are bolted and torqued to the heads you just tack it together here and there to make it "One Piece"...Keep in mind that you will need to be able to get your torch where it needs to be to weld all around whatever you are doing without anything getting in the way..You must also realize that once the final welding takes place you CAN NOT STOP and "finish it tomorrow"..Once it gets hot then you must finish it and that's that.It took me 10 hrs or so to complete it.Let it cool overnight BEFORE unbolting it so it will "Settle In"...You have a major amount of work ahead so go slow and make sure you have everything you will need on hand before starting.Running out of filler (4043) or Argon will be a major bummer..Good luck and post pics.....zap!
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeI never saw that thread zap! Fn awesome man, throw in a helium blend and you could give John Marcellus a run for his money with that one!
Reply:Stuff like that takes a heck of a lot of experience and talent. My Logan Motorsports intake manifold, just like Marcella manifolds, makes me very very humble when I evaluate my experience as a hobby welder..This is one of their jigs..[/end shamless plug for showing off my manifold] 1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:And then their were casting.
Reply:Originally Posted by OscarStuff like that takes a heck of a lot of experience and talent. My Logan Motorsports intake manifold, just like Marcella manifolds, makes me very very humble when I evaluate my experience as a hobby welder..[/end shamless plug for showing off my manifold]
Reply:I have only ever done manis for inline 4s. Even that is challenge enough. Prep, fit up, patients and attention to accessibility are definitely all key. This is the first one I made. I was going for a long runner design aiming for a wide power curve and hoping to nab the second harmonic before redline. Still need to get it on a dyno some day to see how I did. On this one I welded round stock around the inlets then ground out the shape of the bell mouths by hand. It took way too long and wasn't nearly as consistent as I wanted. My welds definitely didn't come out as well as Zap's lol, especially back then. This was my second mani and is for my car. It has an integrated water to air intercooler so the complexity increased a great deal. I couldn't believe the cost of velocity stacks and I knew I didn't want to hand form them like last time. I decided to make a forming die. I carved this out of a piece of crhomoly round stock on the manual lathe using a paper cut out of an optimized profile. I then sanded and polished it. Then using that and a shop press I formed stacks out of straight tubing. And the finished product. Well the mani is anyway, the car probably never will be lol. It runs like a beast though. Lincoln precision TIG 275Millermatic 140 MIG
Reply:I should note that the fabrication of an intake manifold is a tiny part of making a good intake manifold. The science behind choosing diameter and length is something you could dedicate a lifetime to trying to understand. Even changes in shape of the runners or straight vs curved can all change the behavior. Even the most educated designers still need to put a mani on a dyno before they know for a fact it will do what they intended. Admittedly this is much more important with tuned length manifolds that work on using intake harmonics to increase cylinder filling in certain areas of the map. Very short very wide runner designs throw harmonic tuning out the window and just try to reduce restriction and increase flow across the board. This tends to favor high RPM builds or turbo builds. For anyone interested in the science of intake and exhaust design this is a great start. [ame]http://www.amazon.com/dp/0837603099[/ame]Lincoln precision TIG 275Millermatic 140 MIG
Reply:Originally Posted by yoshimitsuspeedI couldn't believe the cost of velocity stacks and I knew I didn't want to hand form them like last time. I decided to make a forming die. I carved this out of a piece of chromoly round stock on the manual lathe using a paper cut out of an optimized profile. I then sanded and polished it. Then using that and a shop press I formed stacks out of straight tubing.
Reply:@ yoshimitsuspeed - Bitch'n! Mahalo for the blow by blow images n keynotes. Your correct about the quest for excellence requires mad skills & ubber science across many planes. Wow. Just wow!"Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Originally Posted by yoshimitsuspeedI should note that the fabrication of an intake manifold is a tiny part of making a good intake manifold. The science behind choosing diameter and length is something you could dedicate a lifetime to trying to understand. Even changes in shape of the runners or straight vs curved can all change the behavior. Even the most educated designers still need to put a mani on a dyno before they know for a fact it will do what they intended. Admittedly this is much more important with tuned length manifolds that work on using intake harmonics to increase cylinder filling in certain areas of the map. Very short very wide runner designs throw harmonic tuning out the window and just try to reduce restriction and increase flow across the board. This tends to favor high RPM builds or turbo builds. For anyone interested in the science of intake and exhaust design this is a great start. http://www.amazon.com/dp/0837603099
Reply:Yosh and Zap, both awesome jobs. Getting a nice even stack o dimes on round tubing is a tremendous skill you cannot fully appreciate until you try it. Brain says "I can run a nice bead on flat aluminum, so I should be fine". Hands do not agree.John Marcella is a freak of nature. Ever watch his Miller video? Double dips every puddle. Won't tell anyone his technique or the gas he uses. Simply amazing talent. Zap, your manifold talents approach his. Even more impressive because that's not all you weld, all day long, like him.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum |
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发表于 2021-8-31 23:29:58