Oxy/Fuel welding ALUMINUM???

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Like to know any pointers and pros and cons on this type of welding?Like what kinda strength to expect?And what to use Acetylene or what?Newbie so dont be to hard on me....Last edited by LOWERnU; 02-06-2011 at 02:13 AM.
Reply:Yes it can be done but it is/was very difficult.Oxy -actyelene or propane torch.They used to sell and may still sell, filler rods that were hollow with flux inside.They were pointed on both ends.You could weld aluminum lawn chairs, etc. but like I say it was VERY tricky because by the time you got the chair or tube hot enough you had to get the filler rod hot enough at the same time and drop a  glob into the molten metal of part you were repairing.By e time you removed the nylon webbing and rivets form the lawn chair,welded it,and put on new webbing and rivets you lost money.AND the welding looked ugly. Like I said it was very tricky.Also if you heated up the aluminum and it glowed green, then it had a high zinc content and that takes a different special filler rod. Some weed eater engine cases have a high zinc content.Forgetaboutit.They have stick welding (SMAW) electrodes that are pink colored and are much better.Find a WELDCO products catalogue.They could be used to repair a cast aluminum engine case.The rod was tricky to run and if you leave the rods sitting out  ONE NIGHT all the flux would swell up and fall of of the rods from sucking up moisture.I used to repair broken sheet rock step stools with those rods. Common repair.Usually $60 per pound. Have to be kept sealed at all times!TIG is the best way to weld aluminum. Period.There is a video of Jessie James motorcycle builder using a oxy-actylene torch to weld a motorcycle tank top on, and the aluminum is .060 thick. seemed to work very well. Got to move fast.Not sure which filler rod he was using.Last edited by Donald Branscom; 02-06-2011 at 02:26 AM.AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:well what i would be welding is .065" thickness tube. and what if i pre heat the metal first?
Reply:use the search feature at the top    "aluminum brazing"  by: Rick V, he did a write up with pics (not that hard to do just some practice is neededthe old days they used O/A to weld alum  that wonder rod ( a alum type solder) works also but has its limits (does not mix well with alum fillers but will hold)idealarc 250/250 ac-dc tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tig #2 used for sticklincoln sp100hh125dual arbor grinder polisher30 yrs of hand tools52 pitch blocks 6p-26prake gauge -pitch gaugeG&D prop repair 918-207-6938Hulbert,okla 74441
Reply:Thanks will do. So strength wise this sorta weld for al is a pretty strong decent weld?Also any one heard of or used this Alumiweld that you can weld with a propane torch?
Reply:This video is interesting.
Reply:Very nice thanks for that everyone. Now what set up should I get I was gonna get one from harbor freight. What's the diff from a regular size and a mini one. And what size tanks would be good for a starter? Also can I just use aluminum wire on like a wire roll or what?
Reply:that meco torch and set at tinmantech is expensive but would be just right.....people still build airplanes this way...
Reply:Genuine fusion welding of aluminum is very difficult to do. Aluminum doesn't form a clearly visible (not to the amateur, anyway) weld puddle like steel, so it's hard to tell when you have the heat right. Since aluminum conducts heat so well, when one spot is at melting temperature, then a big spot is almost at melting at temperature. So, if you put on just a wee bit too much heat, then a big area hits melting temperature and drops out leaving you with a giant hole. Adding to the difficulty of limiting the size of the puddle, flame heat is not concentrated in a spot like electric arc heat.Detecting when you have reached melting temperature is further complicated by the fact that any surface layer of aluminum oxide melts at a drastically different temperature than the aluminum underneath. The rust you get on steel is soft. The "rust" you get on aluminum is hard. Aluminum oxide is grinder grit. So, if you have any (and there probably will be at least a micro-thin layer), you have to detect when the metal underneath has melted, and you have to weld through or underneath the oxide layer.It is very hard to do. You WILL destroy a lot of aluminum trying to do it. Back when I did quite a bit of hobby O/A welding (because that's all I had) and was pretty good at it, I tried some aluminum and made enough failed attempts to do it to learn that this is one of those skills that, if somebody can do it consistly well, you bow to them and chant "We're not worthy! We're not worthy!"For what it's worth, the book from Lincoln called "New Lessons in Arc Welding" shows welding aluminum with a carbon arc torch!
Reply:If you can't get your hands on a TIG welder you can always run aluminum wire in a MIG welder. You need to use 100% argon as a shielding gas. It takes some practice but it works fine just keep your lead straight to avoid binding up the wire. It doesn't push as well as steel wire.ScottFab MangerWelders360.comNew guy.
Reply:Aluminum welding WWII ??AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:Bare handed even! Again, first thing is to clean that aluminum oxide off. Then, we used a paste that you first mixed with water until it is about like the consistancy of toothpaste. Lather that goop where you want your bead to be, and on your filler wire. Heat is everything, it has to be at THE temperature. Then watch for a puddle indication which is hard to spot at first. It works, but it's gonna look like kwap.  If you expect to get shiny little pearls, you are using the wrong process.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Originally Posted by LOWERnULike to know any pointers and pros and cons on this type of welding?Like what kinda strength to expect?And what to use Acetylene or what?Newbie so dont be to hard on me....
Reply:The oxy-acetylene welding on the tinmantech video is very impressive.I do have few questions.  1) Take two pieces of the same material & gauge as in the video, butt welded them together with a TIG weld with appropriate filler.2) Perform the hammer / shotbag stretch, power hammer shrink , polish, clean up and cut a louver test.Would both the oxy/acetylene welded and the TIG welded joints perform the same? Is oxy/acetylene welding identical to TIG welding as far as the parts (& results) are concerned?Many thanks, zip
Reply:Originally Posted by zipzitThe oxy-acetylene welding on the tinmantech video is very impressive.I do have few questions.  1) Take two pieces of the same material & gauge as in the video, butt welded them together with a TIG weld with appropriate filler.2) Perform the hammer / shotbag stretch, power hammer shrink , polish, clean up and cut a louver test.Would both the oxy/acetylene welded and the TIG welded joints perform the same? Is oxy/acetylene welding identical to TIG welding as far as the parts (& results) are concerned?Many thanks, zip
Reply:O/A aloominum welding is way above the pay scale for someone who has never even used a Torch.It is quite a task even after plenty of time welding steel.Good Luck.Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Thanks for all help everyone. I'm going to practice and see what results I come up with.Another ??? Does or have anyone ever used one of those small mapp gas/oxygen torches made by benzomatic???? From like lowes or local hardware store??
Reply:i have one of those.. it is a small very basic  torch, will solder braze weld and cut.....onsmall metal///
Reply:Weldbead will it braze weld 18 gauge all the way tob 3/8''  aluminum?
Reply:Another question if I was gonna weld 6061 aluminum what brazing rods, welding rods do I need?And what about fluxes too??
Reply:heres some thing for ya to read  http://www.aws.org/wj/2004/02/046says 6xxx series can be soldered but is more difficult than the lowers series of alumairgas lists a utp AL-FC rod you will need to use a flux or buy a flux coated roddepending on the use for the parts being soldered  you might be able to use that i call it wonder rod  3in1 solder, or muggyweld  stufflots to google  and read    WHAT ARE YOU PLANNING TO MAKE BUILD OR REPAIR????idealarc 250/250 ac-dc tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tig #2 used for sticklincoln sp100hh125dual arbor grinder polisher30 yrs of hand tools52 pitch blocks 6p-26prake gauge -pitch gaugeG&D prop repair 918-207-6938Hulbert,okla 74441
Reply:thanks is muggyweld kinda like alumiweld?and im trying to build a handlepole for a stand up jet ski - pic attaced simular to like that one Attached Images
Reply:yes  im sure it is the same type of stuff if it were me i would use steel pipe or tubing easyer to weld  put on a good primer and some good paint an go with it  don't think you will save much in weight using aluminum verses steel but it's your project i would do a lot of bend testing before using it .  granted its not like your trying to build a traileridealarc 250/250 ac-dc tigidealarc 250/250 ac-dc tig #2 used for sticklincoln sp100hh125dual arbor grinder polisher30 yrs of hand tools52 pitch blocks 6p-26prake gauge -pitch gaugeG&D prop repair 918-207-6938Hulbert,okla 74441
Reply:There is no bends. Its just straight tube and aluminum is. About half the weight of stee. I need this to be as light as possable.
Reply:Originally Posted by prop-doctori would do a lot of bend testing before using it .  granted its not like your trying to build a trailerThe best advice is to cut your pieces and find a pro welder to weld them for you.It was mentioned in the last thread you started.Give up on the idea that your gonna do it yourself.  CHEAP?
Reply:Well thanks for the consern. But I have been riding for a good time now. "Idiots" no offense but people that ride jet skis aren't all idiots. And another thing I joined here to learn. That's why I'm asking questions trying to get help not be told to learn it then ask questions witch it seems is what your saying. I'm a newbie not a know it all that's why I'm here. To ask gguys like all of you for some help not be told to basically get lost. Thanks for the help the ones that did!!
Reply:The point we are trying to get across is that you don't have enough knowledge yet to understand just what you are asking. Alum welding is an advanced skill no matter what method you choose. Welding alum is not inexpensive, no matter what method you choose. We get the same questions over and over. "I have no previous experience and want to learn to weld alum. Oh and I can't spend a lot of money... I'm doing this to save money..." It's sort of like saying, "I've never driven before, I want to learn to drive, and I need to be able to enter the Datona 500 next week, Oh and BTW I only have enough cash for a used Yugo..." Sounds kind of silly, but thats basically what you keep trying to say.Can you learn alum with no previous experience? Yes, but not easily.Can you pick up an "inexpensive" machine to do alum? Yes, if you look hard enough and know what to look for.Can you quickly learn to weld alum? Yes, if you dedicate yourself to learning it full time, and spend the money to get quality instruction from someone who knows his $hit and has the right equipment.As soon as you start lumping everything together, No experience, no instruction except on the internet, low budget, poor quality machines, or "budget" machines with out certain critical items, working on a fairly significant project that you want done soon... You keep stacking the deck more and more against you succeeding with any of the above. You seldom "save" money building most projects yourself. You "save" money buy buying a premade item that someone mass produces to keep costs at a minimum. You build things because you want to build or learn, not save money. I bet what it cost me to learn basic alum mig or tig would buy you at least 2 of those jet ski's complete if not more.We want to see you succeed and not hurt yourself or others in the process. Would you rather we just say, "go ahead, Buy XYZ machine and go to it! You don't need no stinking experience, I saw them do that on tv last week..." knowing full well theres no way you will succeed and probably hurt yourself with what ever you build?As far as the "idiot" comment, I'm guessing that you are doing this for a specific reason, probably for stunt work or racing. These sorts of things generally put a great deal of stress on parts, similar to what people who don't know what they are doing will do. Watch any Nascar driver weave thru the pack at 150+MPH vs any knucklehead weave thru traffic at 70 on the highway. Who do you think is more "dangerous"? The more you push the limits, the more critical things like welds become..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Hi LOWERnUI did a pictorial write up on brazing aluminum, called 'Aluminum Brazing - Options'.This covers low temperture and high temperature braze/~welding with oxy-acetylene and also with a propane torch (low temp) and a BernOmatic propylene/air torch (high temp).Just click on the link to go there. http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=46803I also did a pictorial write up on 'Propane Torch Comparison'.Just click on the link to go there.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=48365These may be of immediate help to you.Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:Originally Posted by LOWERnUthanks and im trying to build a handlepole for a stand up jet ski - pic attaced simular to like that one
Reply:Well I didn't build the one in thepicture I'm trying to build oone simular to it. Everyone keeps saying use steel. Steel is heavy a handlepole like that made of steel would weight 10 to 12lbs. That's heavier then a stock fiberglass one. Strength wise yes its stronger then the stock one but the object of doing this for me is to have a strong but light weight handlepole. By using aluminum I could and would shave of atleast 5-6 lbs. Strength wise it would still be stronger then the stock fiberglass handlepole. Also water and steel don't mix to well aluminum and water have a little better relationship.Now do you guys. Understand why I wanna use aluminum?And yes I would plan on using 6061 aluminum. Here is my thought: for the aluminum tubes I would use 2"od with wall thickness .065 tube and for the top part where the bars go I would use 3/8" aluminum plate? Any suggustions let me hear them be easy.Last edited by LOWERnU; 02-11-2011 at 06:09 PM.
Reply:A fellow comes on the board, asking about gas welding aluminum. So far only ONE person knoweldgeable on the subject has chimed in. To set the record straight, gas welds will be the same strength as tig welds, no magic here. Avoid all the brazing junk sold today, its not welding, never has been, never will be. Buy a smaller torch, Meco midget, Smith AW1A or Harris 15. Start with OA, dont even attempt Oxy/anything else until OA is mastered. Knowing how to OA weld steel is a useless skill when it comes time to weld aluminum, and at times its worse to be familiar with steel. Too many habits have to be unlearned. Go to www.tinmantech.com, rent or buy the videos, learn all you can from Kent. What you will find is a lot of people who either by lack of understanding, or patience have failed miserably at OF welding of aluminum and so like to give out bad advice, or tell you to by a tig or wire feed. Your project can be easily handled with a torch as well as any other process.
Reply:Originally Posted by LOWERnUWell I didn't build the one in thepicture I'm trying to build oone simular to it.
Reply:makoman thank you for the posative words. 4sfed thanks for the pics didnt mean to sound deffensive. The origanal pole pictured was made of aluminum. The first attached picture was from the person that made the pole. There demensions. The second is the top picture of the pole where the handlebars go. Attached Images Attached Imagesdimensions 11-18-10[1].pdf (5.6 KB, 13 views)
Reply:Is the steel part a "fix" for the fiberglass handlepoles that are breaking?  How much do they weigh?  Are you trying to make it lighter than the fiberglass or just lighter than the steel? And to this comment. the aluminum handlepole is an upgrade to the stock fiberglass pole fiberglass is light but not as strong as the aluminum. i think a stock "fiberglsss" pole is around 9-10 pounds. The pole pictured is suppost to be around 6-7 pounds. and the wall thickness of aluminum is much stronger then the fiberglass handlepole.
Reply:I can tell you from experience that a broken handpole is no fun.  Throttle stuck, no steering, cut up arm, and being drug across the lake.  Don't forget having to swim the damn thing back to shore.My advice....If you want to build one for yourself.  Buy the material, cut, fit, and fixture the parts yourself.  Then pay a pro to weld it up.  That's going to be cheaper than getting the equipment to do the job and learning how to use it well.My name's not Jim....
Reply:If you want light weight and high strength go with titaneium !   Of coarse its probably 50 -100$ per footfor the raw material.  And its 100 times more difficult to weld than aluminum !  - if you can find someonewilling to set up to weld it.  Thats how the government would do it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Seariously though......   Go to Kent Whites web site.  Order a CD on oxy al. welding.   After watchingthat you will know if you want to do it or not I bet !I just orderd one of his disks on cold hammer forming aluminum sheet with the air hammer.Beware - he makes everything he does LOOK easy !Tim