welding a pulley to a crankshaft

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A mechanic friend of mine asked me if I could weld the pulley onto the crankshaft of an old subaru.  He had tried with his small MIG and it lasted 30 days.  I'm planning on doing it with some new 3/32 excalibur 7018.  Any tips?Lincoln Ranger 250gxtLN-25Victor OA cutting torchMilwaukee mag-drillMilwaukee 6370-21 metal saw
Reply:Originally Posted by WelderMatt  Any tips?
Reply:Are you welding a pulley or the harmonic balancer if itt is the balancer don't waste your timeAnother day in paradise You only have to be smarter than the metal".   WeldiniMaking an honest living is nothing more than stealing from someone who can afford it and everyone feels good when it's over .      Weldini
Reply:Well... I had to Google it...but yep its the harmonic balancer.  Sounds rather intimidating.  The car has 300,000+ miles...so this is pretty much a last ditch effort.  So besides...not doing it (which I'm sure is sound advice)....is there anything I "can" do?Lincoln Ranger 250gxtLN-25Victor OA cutting torchMilwaukee mag-drillMilwaukee 6370-21 metal saw
Reply:There is no dought you will weld it nice but the harmonic vibes will evetualy break the crank at the balancer so it's sort of like a time bombAnother day in paradise You only have to be smarter than the metal".   WeldiniMaking an honest living is nothing more than stealing from someone who can afford it and everyone feels good when it's over .      Weldini
Reply:I assume the bolt hole is striped or the bolt is brokeAnother day in paradise You only have to be smarter than the metal".   WeldiniMaking an honest living is nothing more than stealing from someone who can afford it and everyone feels good when it's over .      Weldini
Reply:Originally Posted by WelderMattWell....is there anything I "can" do?
Reply:I've dealt with people like that before. If he doesn't weld it, he will just find someone else to do it.
Reply:That is SO Wrong on so many levels....The guy needs to find a real mechanic/machinist.... welding is not the answer at any level.  It may be that the hole in the end of the crank needs to be drilled and tapped for a larger bolt,  or some careful filing done to a keyway or something... but welding is not the answer.Weldandpower Lincoln 225 AC,DC with Briggs 16hp gas engine.WW2 era Miller TIG.
Reply:Based on the information I have.  The bolt & hole are fine.  The rubber "seal?"  in old harmonic balancer wore out...causing it to vibrate....ruining the key way.  I am not...in any way...a mechanic.  I am, however, a better welder than he is....just wanted to help him out.  He seems commited to fixing it this way.Lincoln Ranger 250gxtLN-25Victor OA cutting torchMilwaukee mag-drillMilwaukee 6370-21 metal saw
Reply:Also...I'd rather not look like an a@@hole when it fails.  So if I could offer him any advice in fixing the keyway...without welding it... I'm all ears.Lincoln Ranger 250gxtLN-25Victor OA cutting torchMilwaukee mag-drillMilwaukee 6370-21 metal saw
Reply:I would suggest you build up the keyway (tig) ands put on. Another balancerAnother day in paradise You only have to be smarter than the metal".   WeldiniMaking an honest living is nothing more than stealing from someone who can afford it and everyone feels good when it's over .      Weldini
Reply:which key way is shot, the one on the crank or HB?If it is the HB try and find a used one out of a junk yard, might need to dress up the end of the crank with a file and/or emory cloth.miller... 225g, s32p, 250x, 304, 12vs, MSW41     victor o/a thermal dynamics cutmaster 50 lenco panel spotter        hobart hf-boxG3 Farms.....raising cattle, hay, kids and hell, ...oh yeah I'm a fire sprinkler contractor by trade.
Reply:With over 300,000 miles on it, he's probably already  planning on getting something else to drive anyways. He probably doesn't want to put any money into it.
Reply:The rubber that has ' gone south' IS the vibration damper...not a seal.... it just finally gives way from ozone exposure, vibration, etc... it has to have a certain flexibility to work correctly.... so types of rubber are limited and those finally need to be replaced.    What HMS said sounds best ... I am assuming the engine is still together ?    Welding there may compromise the actual crankshaft end seal at the case.... so replace that as a matter of principle after the welding. You may need to completely fill in the keyway and regrind or hand file or hand chisel the new keyway. Since no pictures are offered .... it might be that a key with two dimensions could be used.... make the crank key wider by a certain amount on both sides ( keeping it centered ) and a smaller top on the key to match the original size and fit the NEW vibration damper needed.Weldandpower Lincoln 225 AC,DC with Briggs 16hp gas engine.WW2 era Miller TIG.
Reply:Give us more info on the engine and lets see if we can find a NEW Vibration Damper...one from a junk yard would likely be about the same age and condition..Weldandpower Lincoln 225 AC,DC with Briggs 16hp gas engine.WW2 era Miller TIG.
Reply:He bought a new harmonic balancer.  The crankshaft is still in the motor.Lincoln Ranger 250gxtLN-25Victor OA cutting torchMilwaukee mag-drillMilwaukee 6370-21 metal saw
Reply:subaru's arer so well balanced they dont need harmonic balancers. inline 6 motors and boxer 4 motors are the best balanced motors there are.  I have a forester with 110k miles on it, 100k of those with an aluminum crank pulley with no dampener.With that said, subaru motors are cheap as hell too. weld it, who cares, buy a junkyard motor for $200 2 months later when it fails.. www.car-part.com find local motor, part out existing motor on ebay.  In fact, if it is an EJ25, I have a spare crank you can have for the cost off shipping.. pm me.miller syncrowave 250hobart handler 140home made 400 amp engine driven in progress...
Reply:It's a turd car, just weld it who the hell cares.Welding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:Sounds like you need some JB weld or duct tape.Miller Dailarc HF 250 Hobart 140
Reply:Little of both...for good measure.Lincoln Ranger 250gxtLN-25Victor OA cutting torchMilwaukee mag-drillMilwaukee 6370-21 metal saw
Reply:Originally Posted by jdchmielsubaru's arer so well balanced they dont need harmonic balancers.
Reply:I've done this before as a last ditch effort, not on a motor in something I drive tho.  Put the balancer on the crank in the proper position.  Its a pretty tight fit, drill a hole halfway into each and shove in a steel dowel.  Depends how much material you have to work with,  I'd try to do at least 1/4 or 5/16 dowel.  Then the washer on the bolt will hold it in so you won't have to weld it.
Reply:Originally Posted by WelderMattAlso...I'd rather not look like an a@@hole when it fails.  So if I could offer him any advice in fixing the keyway...without welding it... I'm all ears.
Reply:Is the balancer steel or cast?I learned the hard way that they don't weld together well.  I "welded" the oil pan pickup to the oil pump on a SBC.  Lasted a yr, then the engine lost oil pressure intermittently.  I dropped the pan and the pickup fell out.  I'm wondering if you could braze it.  It sounds like its bolted on, so youre only trying to stop the rotation of it.  I'd prolly see if you could get a replacement balancer at a junkyard.  Even if you manage to get it stuck to the rank, you need a functioning balancer.  Like McGyver said, it is needed to quell the harmonics-the tiny crank flexions that occur with each piston firing.  There are balancers that do actually balance the motor (like on certain American V8's), but I doubt a boxer engine needs one.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnumfirst off - WOW - talk about redneck engineering....second off - I quote murphy's law - "if anything can go wrong, it will" - that engine will be doomed for the rest of existance.lastly - ive done a good amount of research on rebuilding subaru engines (im guessing either a EJ20 or an EJ22, if its an EG33 - tell your buddy to upgrade to a real car...since they only came in the SVX and it was a crap car) and you cannot cost effectively rebuild a subaru engine. it will cost easily into a few thousand dollars, where you can buy a JDM over the internet for a few $$ with about 100K on it.
Reply:If you're going to do it, do it right the first time. Don't weld it. not only would you risk damaging the seal, but you're probably going to ruin the good balacer in the process. I suggest either cutting his losses and getting something with an warrenty, or tearing the engine appart and properly fixing the keyway. the only (somewhat) realistic suggestion so far (besides staying away from it, or getting a new motor) is the drill and dowel one, but I can assure you that the difference in the hardness of the crank in comparison to the balancer would make that impossible with a hand drill.There are no problems. There are only solutions. It's your duty to determine the right one.Hobart Handler 210Airco 225 Amp MSM Stinger
Reply:Oversize both keyways and fit a new key, tight, and use a good loctite product on it when you put it in. Can cut that key with a dremel or cut off wheel on a die grinder. hand file but make it as good as you can. Do not weld the balancer, if that thing grenades at speed , you don't wan't to be near it.  With 300 K on the Subaru he got his money's worth, best to find a new vehicle. The difference in sales price of that car running or not running for scrap can't be much. Sell a few parts off it and scrap the rest and you have market value in your pocket. Get another car."Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DCMillermatic 251   Syncrowave 300   30A spoolgunLincoln MP210Hypertherm 45(2) LN 25(2) Lincoln Weldanpower 225 CV(4) SA200   1 short hood    SA250    SAM 400
Reply:Originally Posted by WelderMattA mechanic friend of mine asked me if I could weld the pulley onto the crankshaft of an old subaru.  He had tried with his small MIG and it lasted 30 days.
Reply:Sounds like a flux story waiting to happen to me. 6 months later customer comes back bitching , well it was rebuildable until............I could be wrong, but thatsa how it would surely go in my neck of the woods. I would go with Zap's suggestion, or if you wanna be funny, go to a bait shop  get some worms , put em in an empty soup can and..........
Reply:when in doubt just weld it must be some peoples motto.I can destroy a steel ball in a rubber room
Reply:I like Joe's suggestion in post #23.  I would do 3 dowels lathered up with locktite.  Then use the big washer to make sure they don't creep out.My name's not Jim....
Reply:Chances are, it's already blobbed up with filler metal from the first attempt of welding. It probably looks like hell.
Reply:Suggest:  Craigslist>cars&trucks.  Plenty of cheap clunkers there that will be cheaper than the combined work and subsequent tow when the engine falls apart (which will of course be your fault).
Reply:Originally Posted by BoostinjdmI like Joe's suggestion in post #23. I would do 3 dowels lathered up with locktite. Then use the big washer to make sure they don't creep out.
Reply:Originally Posted by 4sfedIt sounds good, but do you really think you could drill half a hole in a mild/cast steel pulley and the other half in a hardened crankshaft while it's in the car?
Reply:This is a pretty common issue on Subaru's.  We put one back together for a guy for a last ditch effort.  Keyway was well, less than perfect in the crank.  We put the new keyway in and filled the crank with some kinda of metal fill epoxy stuff.  Put a new balancer on it and used bearing set locktight on the crank/harmonic surface and used a new bolt with red locktight.  We unplugged the AC compressor to take some load off it hoping it would last some.  That was almost a year ago and the guy is still driving it.  He has enough saved no to buy a car when it let's go but it hasnt and the car is worth nothing so he keep's running it.We have seen some REALLY bad cranks though. Both sides of the key way broken off and severely gouged by the keyway peice's.  Total loss if its that bad.
Reply:Originally Posted by BoostinjdmI like Joe's suggestion in post #23.  I would do 3 dowels lathered up with locktite.  Then use the big washer to make sure they don't creep out.
Reply:Originally Posted by BoostinjdmI wonder how hard it really is. I've drilled into a few different cranks before without any trouble. If the drilling doesn't work, he could always weld it. Has that been mentioned?
Reply:Originally Posted by MikeGyver:facepalm:Even if the engine is internally balanced and the harmonic balancer is not used for balance in the context you're thinking, it is still required for dampening torsional transients in the crankshaft each time a cylinder hits and accelerates (and twists) the crankshaft. Do you have to use one? no. Does a perfectly balanced race motor not need one? No, it does, because it's primary role pertains to something else, dampening torsional harmonics that can break the crank if they reach resonance.
Reply:What will happen if you weld the balancer to the crank?  Either the engine will start throwing rods or blowing up pistons or both.  The other thing that can happen is the nose of the crankshaft can snap off, possible becoming a projectile if it occurs at high speed.  Any way you look at it, somebody's gonna get hurt; either the car, an innocent bystander, or both.  Don't do it.Contrary to popular opinion, I do NOT have a pet turkey that craps molten steel.  It's a goose.
Reply:below is what i would do also, one tip though make a jig to hold the drill bit so it doesnt wander on you, i like the idea of tapping it too Originally Posted by joe_and_jeep.