Going to college

admin

Well its about time I start getting ready for college and I'm looking to get into welding. Since I don't really know any pro welders I thought I'd ask here.I'm having some issues looking through all the colleges and degrees that are available. I'm thinking that an A.S. would be enough for what I want to do right now. Anyway, what type of degree would you who are in the trade recommend? Most of the programs I'm finding are through community colleges that aren't local or aren't in states I can get financial aid through (most western states offer lower tuition rates for western state students), so info on any good colleges with a good program and campus would be helpful. I've looked online at Utah State but can't figure out where the welding program is. Idaho State sounds okay but im not sure I'd love living there, but who knows.Thanks, Pete
Reply:In New York SUNY Delhi and Alfred State offer Welding Technology. its a A.S in Occupational study. Heres the AWS accredited schools for Cali. http://www.aws.org/w/sense/search_re...se=1&category=
Reply:Mesa Community College here in Maricopa county has all kinds of programs from degrees to completion certificates, and / or you can ala carte stuff and they'll get you into the basic cert test, which, for example would be all you'd need to do a specific job for say the city of Phoenix, but may only serve as a paper to get your foot in the door with an employer so you could take their specific exam.I don't think they do much in the way of finacial aid for non Maricopa county residents, and I don't know how long you'd have to live here to qualify as in state.If you can hornswaggle the financial aid out of them, it'd be a good thing. From what I've heard they pretty much front you and more or less rely on the honor system when it comes time for paybacks. That may just be bigtalk, though, who knows.Start with their website, it's a bitch to navigate but after an hour or so, you'll still be confused. Then call them on the phone.If you fight long enough, you will win. The problem is it costs too damned much.- Lee Cheng
Reply:https://www.canyons.edu/offices/CTE/...ms.welding.aspEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Toyota Peter, let me be honest and frank with you.If you are looking at relocating to go to college, to become a welder, you are WASTING YOUR TIME AND MONEY.With that said; a local community college (Here in the north OC/ south L.A. there is OCC, El Camino, and Dominguez which have welding classes. Anything more in class intensity is going to be a waste of money, if welding is what you are looking at. Your first class is basic; intro to welding. Oxy/ acet basics, then stick and mig. Now what??? Do you want to be a structural welder, building high rise and beam structures? Search out a class for the Los Angeles structural test. If you can pass the LA test, you can pass about any structural test. (Get the stick, and FCAW cert.) If you want to weld pipe? Then take a pipe welding class. As for a test....... you will be tested to each pipe spec, for given sizes and for given fittings. No class I have heard of will make you ready for this. I will go one step further:NO; NONE; NADA, ZIPPO.... NOT ONE 'Welder' who are fresh out of a class has come close to passing our tests for pipe. I hate to tell you this, but it is the cold, hard truth. If you want to weld pipe, then take a basic welding class, and get a job as a helper on a pipe crew. Look for a course in pipefitting. Maybe you can locate one. But the BEST way is to learn from a good, experienced welder. With a class passed for mig and stick, with no LA struct cert, you are qualified to be a mig monkey. You will make around $8-11 an hr. So, do not spend $10,000 on school for this. If you take all the classes, and then take a tig class, you will be looking for work which will subject you to test after test beyond our stick welding tests. And, I am willing as hell to bet you will have a degree, or a cert, but will not be able to pass a test when there is money on the line. You might land a job in the offroad industry welding up stuff, and will be paid $11-16 an hr for tig work. NOT the oft mentioned $30-50 an hr. you will hear thrown about by people. The ONLY guy who passed our tig test with flying colors who went to a school and had no field experience was a really nice guy named James. He spent 7 and a half years practicing, and practicing. You know what James made??? Bumpers, light bars, roll bars, and fancy fixtures for his prison guards. Yep; 7.5 years, and he just read welding books up the wazoo, and spent his entire stint in the joint welding. He's in a weird position: He is a felon. Can't get a TWIC card with enhancements to get into the plants. But he was hired by a company who welds for the nuclear industry. He left our shop for 2.5 times the pay we were giving him. He's making a LOT of money. But, he is welding at a station, in the shop where he works. He can not go into the field. No big deal, he is a really happy guy, and making it happen.But it took 7 and a half YEARS of nothing to do but weld, and weld, and weld........There are 3 things you will need: Practice, practice, and PRACTICE. It REALLY depends on what kind of welding you desire to do. If being a pressure vessel welder is what you'd like to do, then a union apprenticeship may be the way to go. Structural, then a class to pass the LA test. If pipe welding? A union apprenticeship, or get on with a welding crew. Regardless of the certs you bring to the table, you will be starting as a helper. SO, with that in mind, spend as little on school as you need to, and invest the time early to get what counts; the real world experience. Sorry to be a glass of cold water in the face. Our welders get paid good money; lots of good welders apply and test. Most do not make the cut. We have 2 new guys who are starting out as pipe fitters/ helpers. Maybe they are making $13-16 an hr. They come in on Friday and practice welding. Root pass after root pass. In a few months, they will get decent root passes done, and move on to fill passes, and then start testing. By mid 2014, they will probably be able to pass the test if they practice a lot. As a welder, they will make from $18-28 an hr, give or take depending on the project and other experience, etc. Really look at what you want to do, before you plunk down money and get student loans and move and all that shullbit.And then, after so much work...... you have it in your hand, and you look over to your side...... and the runner has run off. Leaving you holding the prize, wondering when the runner will return.
Reply:What is the pipe test that no student fresh out of school won't pass?  Is it a stick,tig,or combo pipe test?  6g r, , downhill 10 rods all the way out?Just curious.
Reply:I think some of you dont realazie that no one is hiring these helper that yoy people keep speaking of
Reply:Whoa..,   For the craft of welding college is probably money not well spent.   On the other hand young folks 17, 18, 19 years don't often know what they really want to be when they grow up. ( those of us in our 30's 40's and 50's have the same problem but that's a different story). There are some skills related to the craft of welding for which college is essential.  Welding engineer, metallurgical engineer and in some cases mechanical engineer.  If you are so inclined a degree in math or physics can take you any where.  And apples to apples having a degree (and the inclination to work hard) can often generate an improved paycheck.  I'm not saying that a good welder can't earn good money.  I'm saying in many cases having a solid degree can ease a transition when one decides to make a career change.  My undergrad degree is in nuc physics & engineering (long story).  I decided instead to make my hobby my career... I really liked working on cars. I Ended up working in engineering at the blue oval place in Dearborn MI.  Spent a long time there, 29 years.  It was a fun place to work.  And i got to work on cars, a lot.When you are 18 you need to figure what you are good at.  If you are good at the process of learning new things,  go to college. Learn more, see where you do good, get a degree.  If you don't like reading, writing math or science don't waste your time going to a traditional college.  If you really want to do hands on welding there are other better opportunities to build on the craft.I only wish everybody has the chance to do the thing that you love.  Its really awesome if the things you are good at, support the things you love to do.I will say I've seen many kids go to school because they were told they had to have a degree, and they hated the study and either didn't finish or took way too long to finish.  And they hated that field of study so bad as a result of school they wouldn't now consider working in it.Good luck with whatever decision you make.
Reply:Here's my $.02, and it's worth what you pay for it.If money is an issue, consider the military. I know there are a couple jobs that include welding, plus you get paid along with other benefits. All in all it's not a bad gig. Plus, there are tons of benefits as active duty and as a veteran. On the front, 4 or 5 years seems like a long time, but it really isn't. I loved it and it was definitely worth it. I'd do it over again in a minute. I'm using my benefits to go back to school now.As far as an education, I would recommend to get the best one you can. If you can afford a traditional university you might think about something like Mechanical Engineering or something. Life is about options. I'll illustrate my advice regarding an education with my own experience. I have always been mechanically inclined. I love building things and all things mechanical, but I am also blessed with the ability to do well academically. For reasons i won't go into here, I ended up in the Marines and it was the best decision I ever made. Learned a trade (Air Traffic Controller) and earned LOTS of benefits. After my time in the military I am now back in school pursuing a Bachelors and a Masters in Accounting (Pays well and LOTS of jobs) plus I am going to be taking welding classes in the evenings at the local tech school. I do the Accounting because it pays well, I'm good at it, and I don't mind the work. I weld and woodwork as a hobby and take classes because that's what interests me. And because of my time in the military I am able to do this at little cost to me.I have TONS of respect for people that learn a trade and make that their career, I just believe in giving myself as many options as possible. That's why I say get the best education you can, and don't automatically rule out the military. Hope this helps. Best of luck to you.Brian
Reply:Originally Posted by Broccoli1https://www.canyons.edu/offices/CTE/...ms.welding.asp
Reply:For people to say it waste to go college or Vocational school is just ignorance. You got learn and do what you dream of doing.
Reply:My son is still working on his A.S. degree(s) for welding and machining.  While he was taking welding classes, he landed a job at a major corp. TIG welding generator turbine blades in the reconditioning area.  He wasn't even finished with the TIG class.  At a job fair at the college, he just showed them one of his practice tickets and had a chat.  They hired him for a 3-month probationary period and had him go through a couple of certs.  He was asked to stay on, but he had other plans. He had a job at a machine shop for about 6 months before he moved on.  What he learned in college allowed him to more than hold his own, including doing some g-code and MasterCAM work.  Made damn good parts.If you have talent and interest, then the schooling can be valuable.  Seems like a lot of the people in the classes were just there because their company sent them."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Originally Posted by RojodiabloToyota Peter, let me be honest and frank with you.If you are looking at relocating to go to college, to become a welder, you are WASTING YOUR TIME AND MONEY.With that said; a local community college (Here in the north OC/ south L.A. there is OCC, El Camino, and Dominguez which have welding classes. Anything more in class intensity is going to be a waste of money, if welding is what you are looking at. Your first class is basic; intro to welding. Oxy/ acet basics, then stick and mig. Now what??? Do you want to be a structural welder, building high rise and beam structures? Search out a class for the Los Angeles structural test. If you can pass the LA test, you can pass about any structural test. (Get the stick, and FCAW cert.) If you want to weld pipe? Then take a pipe welding class. As for a test....... you will be tested to each pipe spec, for given sizes and for given fittings. No class I have heard of will make you ready for this. I will go one step further:NO; NONE; NADA, ZIPPO.... NOT ONE 'Welder' who are fresh out of a class has come close to passing our tests for pipe. I hate to tell you this, but it is the cold, hard truth. If you want to weld pipe, then take a basic welding class, and get a job as a helper on a pipe crew. Look for a course in pipefitting. Maybe you can locate one. But the BEST way is to learn from a good, experienced welder. With a class passed for mig and stick, with no LA struct cert, you are qualified to be a mig monkey. You will make around $8-11 an hr. So, do not spend $10,000 on school for this. If you take all the classes, and then take a tig class, you will be looking for work which will subject you to test after test beyond our stick welding tests. And, I am willing as hell to bet you will have a degree, or a cert, but will not be able to pass a test when there is money on the line. You might land a job in the offroad industry welding up stuff, and will be paid $11-16 an hr for tig work. NOT the oft mentioned $30-50 an hr. you will hear thrown about by people. The ONLY guy who passed our tig test with flying colors who went to a school and had no field experience was a really nice guy named James. He spent 7 and a half years practicing, and practicing. You know what James made??? Bumpers, light bars, roll bars, and fancy fixtures for his prison guards. Yep; 7.5 years, and he just read welding books up the wazoo, and spent his entire stint in the joint welding. He's in a weird position: He is a felon. Can't get a TWIC card with enhancements to get into the plants. But he was hired by a company who welds for the nuclear industry. He left our shop for 2.5 times the pay we were giving him. He's making a LOT of money. But, he is welding at a station, in the shop where he works. He can not go into the field. No big deal, he is a really happy guy, and making it happen.But it took 7 and a half YEARS of nothing to do but weld, and weld, and weld........There are 3 things you will need: Practice, practice, and PRACTICE. It REALLY depends on what kind of welding you desire to do. If being a pressure vessel welder is what you'd like to do, then a union apprenticeship may be the way to go. Structural, then a class to pass the LA test. If pipe welding? A union apprenticeship, or get on with a welding crew. Regardless of the certs you bring to the table, you will be starting as a helper. SO, with that in mind, spend as little on school as you need to, and invest the time early to get what counts; the real world experience. Sorry to be a glass of cold water in the face. Our welders get paid good money; lots of good welders apply and test. Most do not make the cut. We have 2 new guys who are starting out as pipe fitters/ helpers. Maybe they are making $13-16 an hr. They come in on Friday and practice welding. Root pass after root pass. In a few months, they will get decent root passes done, and move on to fill passes, and then start testing. By mid 2014, they will probably be able to pass the test if they practice a lot. As a welder, they will make from $18-28 an hr, give or take depending on the project and other experience, etc. Really look at what you want to do, before you plunk down money and get student loans and move and all that shullbit.
Reply:There are apprentice programs where you get trained and paid at the same time:http://www.navsea.navy.mil/shipyards...iew=Shared#FAQhttp://www.apprenticeschool.com/programs.html"USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Originally Posted by OldendumThere are apprentice programs where you get trained and paid at the same time:http://www.navsea.navy.mil/shipyards...iew=Shared#FAQhttp://www.apprenticeschool.com/programs.html
Reply:Originally Posted by ToyotaPeterAnyway, what type of degree would you who are in the trade recommend?
Reply:Originally Posted by ShortbusWelderWhat is the pipe test that no student fresh out of school won't pass?  Is it a stick,tig,or combo pipe test?  6g r, , downhill 10 rods all the way out?Just curious.
Reply:Originally Posted by Rojodiablo6G 8" x.375 pipe. 6010 root, 7018 fill and cap. 3 pass minimum. (4 to 5 pass if a double cap)You'd think it would be so simple. Not so. Today, we had 2 x-ray tests on pieces destined for the field. 1 passed, 1 failed. And these are our own guys, already vetted. The cause of the fail? Low fusion rate. Not lack of fusion, maybe a temperature related low fusion. No porosity issue, they thought there was one, but a shoot from a different angle showed the first film to be less than perfect. But the low fusion; it's partially down to IESCO's x-ray tech, and what he says. You can protest it, and sometimes they will override the tech's finding. Sometimes not.Plains, Tesoro, Conoco, Valero..... they are all getting extremely picky. We had one new guy test today. No chance. His root pass was not even close to what is really needed now.I'm not saying that taking classes are a waste. But, until you are certain that you will use the info from the class, it is a lot better to get your feet wet and see that this kind of work is really for you. We have 1 kid who has been fitting for 3 months now. He wanted to be a welder. 3 months in, he would like to be a welder, maybe. But he's not so sure. I agree with Shovelon; there are benefits, if you really want to be in that field. And, military offers great training, and field experience in a usually controlled environment.If you are working the field, and like it, then yes, by all means, make the investment and find good classes to take. But please, don't believe for a second that you can weld like the chopper guys or Jesse James and make $100K a year being a tig welder. It really does not work like that. I am one who looks at it with practicality. If you spend $3000 and 4 months on school, and then the course leads nowhere, you were better off taking a different course, or saving that money and finding something you really want to invest years working at. Sure, ANY knowledge is useful. Of course. But if you really like baking cakes, a course in welding won't help much. You WOULD find that a course in layout and blueprint reading would be helpful if you desired to be a seamstress/ tailor. It's all about how well the class will cross over if you change your job trajectory. Hope this makes a bit more sense than my first post. But hell, I stand by both posts.
Reply:Originally Posted by ShortbusWelderThanks for the reply. Yes, I agree that test should be easy. The school I went to, I practiced 2" sch 160 in the 6 g position, and I felt that was easy. Most say smaller pipe is harder. Testing on  the pipe I did gave me the broadest range of pipe I can weld.   I welded pipes from 1" up to 12"', most were gas,water,high pressure steam,etc. I think a school worth a dam, well instructors, should be able to help a student pass that test.  It's not hard at all. It just takes knowing what to do,and when.  Practice makes perfect. If the student puts in the time, coming out of school that test shouldn't be a problem for him/her. Just my thoughts, I just became an instructor at a local college in my area, and I ask the kids tell me what type of weldor you want be,and what kind of welding you want to do. This way I can revolve the course around what they want to do,not just run them through the course for the sake of doing so.  If one wants to pipe weld, well we will do more pipe welding,and prepare them for tests. If they want to do structural, we will practice more on plates.  If they want to tig, spend more time tigging, so and so on for the other processes.
Reply:Originally Posted by RojodiabloThe smaller pipe is in a way more difficult, because the rod angle changes rapidly as you circle the pipe. The 6-12" is easier to see what you are doing, but there is much more area to get the weld right, or wrong with. It is simply amazing what a test will shoot down now. Really frustrating. And, after seeing 1000 root passes each month, I can say that if the root is not just bitchin' looking...... the inspector is going to give the weld a LOT more scrutiny. I know, an ugly weld is not necessarily a bad weld. But what we are putting down is welds pretty far beyond what a person would think is 'passing'. I suppose it's a bit like being an accountant.........'So, you are good at math, eh? Try THIS on for size!! '
Reply:I'll be blunt:Unless you can't enlist for some reason, you'd be a fool not to join the Air Force or Navy even if only for one hitch.There is simply nothing else out there that will pay that kind of benefit and training package plus paying for college in and after service. There are a wide variety of technical fields to choose from (ask vets and active guys who were/are in the ones you consider or are familiar with them about the working environment), and instead of working until you die you can retire (assuming an enlistment age of 18) in your thirties.  I did 26 years USAF aircraft maintenance (comm/nav, engines, crew chief) and never have to work again, though I do now and then on gigs I enjoy.I took structural/pipe welding while on terminal leave so active duty TA would cover it, then did whatever I felt like for a few years and am halfway through a two-year CNC degree because I enjoy machining (and want to make motorcycle parts). Still have room for another two-years schooling after that and will either go CAD or mechatronics. School not only didn't cost me anything, I got paid to attend. (G.I.Bill stipend is near a grand a month for a full course load.)There are MANY vets who retire young, then max out technical training benefits (your G.I. Bill is usable up to fifteen years after you separate or retire, and you get those benefits after only one enlistment), and move into other jobs like military contracting. They often work worldwide in their second career. You accumulate a large buddy network during your career and they know where the jobs are.After enlisting in 1981 (during a Recession) I haven't felt one since.  The Air Force was mostly large fun and now I have buds scattered around the world I keep in touch with.USAF welders usually work in fabrication flight, and are dual-hatted as machinists. Navy training is superior for both those jobs. (You can also switch services after the first enlistment if there's an opening in a field you want.)If I had it to do over again there's no way I'd start as a civilian. As a young G.I. most of your income is disposable because your expenses are met.  (In my case it fed my motorcycle habit.) As you rise in rank and move off-base, you can eventually use your housing allowance towards a mortgage. Buy affordably and that's easy to pay off. Think about it, make an informed decision, and NEVER go in "general enlistment".Also, retake the ASVAB until your scores are as high as you need. It's free.I'd say "good luck in whatever you choose", but "choose thoughtfully" is much better.
Reply:Unless you can't enlist for some reason, you'd be a fool not to join the Air Force or Navy even if only for one hitch.
Reply:As someone who served in the military, I also recommend enlisting. I was Army, and we don't exactly have "welders" per se. We have "engineers" who weld in addition to...Besides all the fantastic and wonderful things you learn in the military (err...), you have the chance to learn valuable skills/trades. A buddy of mine in welding school was a heavy equipment operator in the Marines and they taught him to weld. I could go on...The Navy is a good choice, but I recommend the Army. The wide array of things you learn as a combat engineer will blow your mind. DO NOT get that confused with "bridge builder"... or risk 3-8 long years of bumper boats.
Reply:I do say, this thread took a hell of an interesting turn.As you can see ToyotaPeter, you'll get every angle when you ask a career question.Maintain an unassuming positive "how can I do this better" attitude, make the friends you're gonna make under those circumstances naturally, and don't walk into a new job with an "I'm gonna show the boss how to do this" attitude, and ya might just be okay without having to sign any contracts.Don't forget about that agreement. They have lawyers and jailers and sh*t.If you fight long enough, you will win. The problem is it costs too damned much.- Lee Cheng
Reply:ToyotaPeter,I used to be totally in favor of college for everyone, back when they were affordable and not just diploma mills. Anymore I am starting to really respect the trades, as they are very practical and have a lower barrier to entry. Either way, whatever you do please take it seriously and have pride in your work product.Consider working (welding?) your way through college, because as time goes by things will become clearer for you. It is true that no one can take your education away for you, no matter how you obtain it.You can have it all, if you are willing to work for it.Good luck.General college curricula sucks the sweat off a dead liberal democrats dog.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Originally Posted by tanglediverGeneral college curricula sucks the sweat off a dead liberal democrats dog.
Reply:City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:If you wanna go to a out-of-state welding school that's probably the best pm me... ME along with a handfull of guys I still talk to work for either JV industrial or Union. I know a kid that's only 19.. yes 19 that works for JV.. Went to our school were JV came and talked. Took there 6gr restricted test and now making 3900/week working 7-12's.. I join the union after school and did a few weeks of unionized school and now working at a refinery in Louisiana making 2,300 on the check after my insurance/pension is taken out. If you go to some lil community college that only does plate you won't go no where.. If you want to learn pipe I can tell you a place to go.