New apprentice/ pay info for utah/questions etc.

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First off, I would like to say I accepted the apprenticeship here in Utah with Local 27 Iron workers! Second, assuming I am not violating some kind of union or work law I will be adding posts here to document the process for others who might be switching career paths into this one or ones like it in the hopes that I can assist someone. I really like helping people. Last I have a question.   I've never worked with welding in my life, I only have woodworking and server administration skill sets. So I am excited to have a chance at an honest trade skill that is respectable. I would like to say thank you to the forum for all the information you guys have stored up here as well. I don't  know how things are going to go from here but it should be a fun,rewarding ride.Clearing up a misconception.Or two...    This union appears to specialize in structural Iron working only. I talked with the union rep last night and some misconceptions I had were cleared up. One major one and one I also have seen here this year on the forums is pay rate. Here apprentices start at 20.38 an hour and not 14.00. Journeymen seem to hover around 27-28 depending. I hope this information helps others who might have found conflicting reports of wages/etc. The other piece of information that has made a large difference in me choosing To do this is, College. I am a student already and tuition is expensive and designed to bill the government and not the individual. As such adding more classes that do not stack with my major would be painful since I receive little or no aid. The way I am entering this field is via a company sponsored position, this means entry to the union was easier with them having an opening already and needing people, also college is paid for and books to be certified as a welder.( more on that later)TLDR: I got int and it looks really cool. As for my question, I would like to know what I can expect doing deck work and what will be expected of me. Besides showing up early everyday, with a great attitude, and a solid pair of boots. Any information provided could only help others as well.
Reply:You have never worked with welding and they are paying you $20.38/hr. on the job training? Must be some kind of at will employment arrangement so they can weed out the uninspired.Sweet deal!Last edited by shovelon; 08-22-2013 at 11:14 AM.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:I checked with others and it appears to be standard here however, The union does do a one year probation period though they said they have not fired anyone for something less than a drug violation or not showing up in a really long time. Maybe you are right ? 17.50 an hour is what I make working in a call center here so it seems fair to me.EDIT all employment in utah is right to work. So I'd be surprised out side of being a teacher if anyone is other than at will.Last edited by Happydog; 08-22-2013 at 11:26 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by HappydogI checked with others and it appears to be standard here however, The union does do a one year probation period though they said they have not fired anyone for something less than a drug violation or not showing up in a really long time. Maybe you are right ? 17.50 an hour is what I make working in a call center here so it seems fair to me.
Reply:Maybee the $20.38 is total package like benefits.  It does sound like a good deal.  Good luck. I was in UTAH 2 weeks ago.  The ZIONS (gorgeous) and Ogden.  Be very careful when driving in UTAH. Drivers there are not courteous at all.  Drivers in Northern Nevada are mostly country bumpkins and California drivers are very aggressive but courteous.  Just be carefull driving in Utah.
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonYeah, that is great. I put my hires through a pretty extensive on the job training and supervision period. I look at it this way. Either they can pay to get schooling or get paid to get real training. Everything I train produces income. The more income, the more pay. Some of my new hires get training wage, $6.80/hr. These are more like high-schoolers that get work experience for school.  They would work for free, but I have to put them on the books and pay insurance.Just seems to me they could pay a little less and train more people. Education is good thing.
Reply:Originally Posted by InsanerideMaybee the $20.38 is total package like benefits.  It does sound like a good deal.  Good luck. I was in UTAH 2 weeks ago.  The ZIONS (gorgeous) and Ogden.  Be very careful when driving in UTAH. Drivers there are not courteous at all.  Drivers in Northern Nevada are mostly country bumpkins and California drivers are very aggressive but courteous.  Just be carefull driving in Utah.
Reply:I was able to get the union rep on the phone and the total benefits package is roughly 40.00. The 20.38 is what will be on my pay check per every hour worked. He did give me a warning though while we were talking. Direct quote.    " When you get on site you are going learn real fast why we pay so much. It's hard work. Just keep it simple and have a great attitude and you'll be fine"
Reply:Originally Posted by HappydogI was able to get the union rep on the phone and the total benefits package is roughly 40.00. The 20.38 is what will be on my pay check per every hour worked. He did give me a warning though while we were talking. Direct quote.    " When you get on site you are going learn real fast why we pay so much. It's hard work. Just keep it simple and have a great attitude and you'll be fine"
Reply:Originally Posted by HappydogAs for my question, I would like to know what I can expect doing deck work and what will be expected of me. Besides showing up early everyday, with a great attitude, and a solid pair of boots. Any information provided could only help others as well.
Reply:Originally Posted by OldSparksOthers may explain better.  For the most part 'decking' refers to the laying of the galvanized sheets that support concrete flooring and roofing compounds in buildings and the road surfacing on bridges.  Believe the sheets are tacked/stitched or mechanically bound together.  Pay attention to your fall protection.
Reply:And you'll get a vacation fund every 6mths that you obviousy pay into out of your total package which ads up very quick. No vacation and bingo every six months you'll get a check for probably 5grand Yee Haa! Play it safe, if something scares you let them know till you get comfortable with it, make friends and they will help you. It's rough out there and a lot of the guys are hardened and rough, if they bust your balls don't take it personal they will only feed off of it. The "New Guy" fck yeah! get used to hearing it but don't let it bother you, boys will be boys. Play it safe bro, and if you make a name for yourself make it a good one! Best of luck to you bud and enjoy the new experiences! I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeAnd you'll get a vacation fund every 6mths that you obviousy pay into out of your total package which ads up very quick. No vacation and bingo every six months you'll get a check for probably 5grand Yee Haa! Play it safe, if something scares you let them know till you get comfortable with it, make friends and they will help you. It's rough out there and a lot of the guys are hardened and rough, if they bust your balls don't take it personal they will only feed off of it. The "New Guy" fck yeah! get used to hearing it but don't let it bother you, boys will be boys. Play it safe bro, and if you make a name for yourself make it a good one! Best of luck to you bud and enjoy the new experiences!
Reply:Congrats, man. I had applied for the Ironworkers apprenticeship here but ended up getting hired by a shipyard before the selection process finished. I will be interested in your progress.
Reply:Originally Posted by HappydogOn another note:Boots. Read the search results on this site.talked with the foreman and the company says if I go 6 months with out injury then they will pay for redwings. Until then I am going to take someones advice and go to sears and but the diehard boots they have? Any objections to them ?
Reply:Originally Posted by sky hy ironmanEnjoy those cheap boots for 6 months. You are an office boy. Hit the gym and start power cleaning a 100 pound barbell and then carry it around on one shoulder.
Reply:Originally Posted by akabadnewsCongrats, man. I had applied for the Ironworkers apprenticeship here but ended up getting hired by a shipyard before the selection process finished. I will be interested in your progress.
Reply:Originally Posted by HappydogEditted for more info.Hey thanks for the advice on the boots and gym.  If you have any other advice please feel free to add it here. It can only help others who come looking for answers and suggestions.
Reply:Preemptive entry./\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\~~Today I finished getting the tools I should need to start with and boots89.99 (sears), socks 13.99(sears) and some tougher jeans 17.99 (jc penny (sales) ). Only thing I did not see running around town were shirts. As an I.T guy my shirts are ... well office shirts. Polos, Dress shirts, Graphic T shirts etc. Nothing I feel might last 2 hours of manual labor. I did note most other iron workers I have seen seem to have bright green, orange or red thick t shirts. Have not seen any around and will keep my eyes open.~~I am still trying to find out what the average hours per week an apprentice works for their first month. Some say only 40, 7-4 or 7-3. I feel though a job like this demands more than that. It demands blood, sweat, and tears. There have been mentions of a "hell day" as well.  Seems like the only way to find out answers to a lot of my questions lies in going to the site and experiencing the answers first hand.  What ever happens though, at least I wont be teaching someone from India are the Philippines how to do my job; so I can be laid off like a lot of places I have worked at recently. Ergo the worst case scenario here is I will give up... or I guess be injured, though the latter does not bother me as much as the former. ~~Another interesting note is in the online community some folks, maybe a lot, feel a need to hate one another based on who is union and who is not. Comments likes rats, scabs, posers, wanna bees get slung around with abandon. I have thought on this for a bit and have come to the naive conclusion that I feel no dislike for either group of men since both are working hard to earn a living. Both certainly work harder than I have at my last civilian job, physically anyway. With nick names like "Cowboys Of The Sky", or "Suicide Walkers" you would figure there are more pressing matters to be concerned with. That said, there is something to be observed here when it comes to ones pride in their work. A dangerous skillful job breeds respect and pride. Maybe this is the real source of the conflict. I don't know for sure though.Either way...Men that work like this for a living day in and day out for decades are not light, slow, weak or easy men. They will be rough, tough and hard. Last edited by Happydog; 08-24-2013 at 09:20 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by sky hy ironmanYou're a Jarhead? Good! No thin skin for you then. It is funny to watch the sharks come out when they smell the blood of the easy. Tough job? No. Effort, that's all. Coordination of the jobsite by the GC, your bosses, other trades makes the effort easier. Lace up those new boots and then soak them in water for 15 minutes and then go for a 4 mile walk. Better to break them in beforehand to eliminate blisters. You already have experience in wearing boots for work, so when it is hot out, take them & your socks off to cool down your dogs. Important on long days. Have 2 tape measures, they break so.... Buy a big black magic marker for marking the beams as you go to keep track of them for welding as you lay down the floor sheets.  Carry a piece of soapstone in each pocket. There is no such thing as a "rebar stretcher" or "crane jib stretcher" so don't fall for that. Hit your hall down there to save some money buying tool bags, scabbards & such. It can be fun. Get GOOD at welding, amazing how many are not and choose not to be. Have a set of dark & clear safety glasses for when you work inside you must wear clear lenses. Enjoy
Reply:We got women out here as IW so it is a big family. Typical types all around just like the service. NOBODY is born a mountain goat, you will get use to walking across the beams and joist. They both wobble but with safety lines they have on jobs, it is a security blanket it for some. Take your tape measure out to size up the iron you are going to walk across to make yourself more nervous.  Come to Chicago so you can walk on the iron when there is snow on it. Yes, size 12 winter boots are bigger then your summer boots, so it is THAT MUCH MORE FUN. Ask your BA about welding class since you have a 3 year appr. program. If wire welding is not offered until 2nd year, see if you can go to a community college for a semester of wire welding for the experience beforehand.
Reply:Originally Posted by sky hy ironmanWe got women out here as IW so it is a big family. Typical types all around just like the service. NOBODY is born a mountain goat, you will get use to walking across the beams and joist. They both wobble but with safety lines they have on jobs, it is a security blanket it for some. Take your tape measure out to size up the iron you are going to walk across to make yourself more nervous.  Come to Chicago so you can walk on the iron when there is snow on it. Yes, size 12 winter boots are bigger then your summer boots, so it is THAT MUCH MORE FUN. Ask your BA about welding class since you have a 3 year appr. program. If wire welding is not offered until 2nd year, see if you can go to a community college for a semester of wire welding for the experience beforehand.
Reply:[QUOTEMen that work like this for a living day in and day out for decades are not light, slow, weak or easy men. They will be rough, tough and hard.    [/QUOTE] There is all types out there man. Older smart guys do not need to hustle like a young guy. Experience plays into it. The weekly hours you work are what they are. Hook up with a contractor that keeps you working AND learning is always good, naturally. Check out the website "Animated Knots by Grog" very good site! Even have mirror images for southpaws. Learn the clove hitch, bowline and running bowline. The 1st two are the most used. Also look at the "double sheet bend" knot, useful too. Why the "Kentucky Come-a-long" is not on there, I don't know. If you haven't got your rebar pliers yet, get the 9 inch Kleins, not the 7 inch.Last edited by sky hy ironman; 08-24-2013 at 10:02 PM.
Reply:Congrats your a lucky dude. Good to see there still some place where a regular joe can get in to the Union.
Reply:Utah Ironworkers Local 27 Wage & Benefit Package from the 2012 Sept. issue of "The Ironworker" magazineJourneyman Scale $26.18Insurance $6.25 per hour workedPension $5.00 per hour workedAnnuity $3.25 per hour workedApprentice fund (training) $1.10No vacation fundSo the apprentices earn a percentage of scale based on hours worked & year of schooling.Everyday worked is a day closer to retirement "Hell Week" = Ha! ......... Rebar  Good boots will help out so you don't get  "crows feet" from walking on & climbing rebar. The deadlifts you do will keep your hamstrings stretched, important considering they tie into your lower back. NEEDED when tying a bridge deck. Work gloves -- have more than 1 pair  Gloves tear, burn, & wear out so don't be cheap to stick yourself in an aggravating situation. Enjoy!Ua pipefitter/welder. I know you havnt started yet but good boots will be your friend. And get used to rolling up 2/0 lead in and out. Nothing wears your arms out faster than rolling up 250' of that every day. At this point your hardness and yo-yo will be your best friend. Keep it tight around the legs/crotch. If you fall and those are lose all that weight is going straight to the family jewels, and a 200 lpound man dropping 10 feet has a catch weight around 5000 pounds so I've been told. Not something you want to catch in the nuts. If your going to be using gas powered equipment be careful with the fuel. First job I ever worked as an apprentice an iron worker got burnt up bad from spilling gas all over himself and had someone torching above him. His day ended up in the burn unit. Oh and you will catch something on fire eventually. For me it's usually pants. Don't panic just brush it off with a glove and watch were your sparks fly. Oh and don't forget to have fun. And if you ever need help welding as the pipe welders, we always like to give lessons on real welding.
Reply:Originally Posted by violatedpplUa pipefitter/welder. I know you havnt started yet but good boots will be your friend. And get used to rolling up 2/0 lead in and out. Nothing wears your arms out faster than rolling up 250' of that every day. At this point your hardness and yo-yo will be your best friend. Keep it tight around the legs/crotch. If you fall and those are lose all that weight is going straight to the family jewels, and a 200 lpound man dropping 10 feet has a catch weight around 5000 pounds so I've been told. Not something you want to catch in the nuts. If your going to be using gas powered equipment be careful with the fuel. First job I ever worked as an apprentice an iron worker got burnt up bad from spilling gas all over himself and had someone torching above him. His day ended up in the burn unit. Oh and you will catch something on fire eventually. For me it's usually pants. Don't panic just brush it off with a glove and watch were your sparks fly. Oh and don't forget to have fun. And if you ever need help welding as the pipe welders, we always like to give lessons on real welding.
Reply:Originally Posted by sky hy ironmanUtah Ironworkers Local 27 Wage & Benefit Package from the 2012 Sept. issue of "The Ironworker" magazineJourneyman Scale $26.18Insurance $6.25 per hour workedPension $5.00 per hour workedAnnuity $3.25 per hour workedApprentice fund (training) $1.10No vacation fundSo the apprentices earn a percentage of scale based on hours worked & year of schooling.Everyday worked is a day closer to retirement "Hell Week" = Ha! ......... Rebar  Good boots will help out so you don't get  "crows feet" from walking on & climbing rebar. The deadlifts you do will keep your hamstrings stretched, important considering they tie into your lower back. NEEDED when tying a bridge deck. Work gloves -- have more than 1 pair  Gloves tear, burn, & wear out so don't be cheap to stick yourself in an aggravating situation. Enjoy!
Reply:About the vacation fund, The union hall told me that for every hour I worked something like a 1.70 or 1.50 would go towards a vacation check. This would be cut once a year in November. I double checked and he reiterated it. My question is, is this check considered a "fund" or is it just a bonus ?
Reply:utah DRIVERS SUCK PERIOD.Last edited by Insaneride; 09-08-2013 at 08:48 PM.Reason: EVIL DRIVERS SUCK
Reply:Today was the first day on the job site. No training, No classes, nothing. Just here, here's a harness, a belt, and here is what I want you to do. (note I'm fine with this, this might worry others though.)My first impressions are thus far, noting that I am just tossing out information and then going to eat. lol...   We get one ten minute break in the morning and a lunch (30) around 12:30. Clock out is exactly at 3:30pm BRING A SOLID LARGE LUNCH WITH HEALTHY FOOD.The old timers, or guys who have been around 20+ years are motivating and old fashion in their politeness. ( refreshing) As far as wages go, none of my bosses made less than 80k last 5 years running and most cleared much higher. So if you can handle the work the money is out there.Some of the forman seem to have reputations for being drunk when they are at their best and sober at their meanest. They stand around screaming all day.Mine was quiet. Active, direct but polite and professional.  I'm being givin the standard **** for being new. Nothing anyone can't handle. Best of all he is safe.One note to correct from above, only buy boots that have no heel. If messes with your balance and makes things hurt on the deck. I'll have to wait to change out boots.The guy I am replacing quit his first day. The guy before him after a few months. The guy before him died ( do not know if that ones true, it's just what they said, most likely messing with me)My forman doesn't expect me back in the morning since people keep quitting. I'll be early tomorrow.I would say my legs hurt the worst. Everything else feels fine for now, though sleep will show anything else. I managed to get by with a few scrapes, and one quad hurting. The rest are general aches and pains, which should be expected.The welding will come after some classes. Here it's a fast and dirty job. They do tons in a day and do not slow down. On the flip side I did not have to answer a phone and listen to some one whine like a bitch for being on hold for 20 minutes to fix a 3 hour problem they made by being incompetent. Get a belt that fits well. Keep it away from your hips or it will hurt. Get decent gloves. They provide some but their are better ones out there. Wear a do rag under your hard hat. It will keep the sweat from dripping into your eyes, glasses or visor. I can't think of anything else and I am tired. *pizza*then*bed*
Reply:Awesome! I hope you don't quit. Sounds like a pretty good career when you get up to speed. Good Luck!Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Did you quit HappyDog?