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Hello all.I'm wanting to build a 15X20 shop soon out of metal. Bad news is that I don't have any experience with metal framed buildings, only wood.Are there code books or something that would help? I'm really not sure how to design the frame without going overboard and I don't wanna waste a lot of money.Also any picks or links to builds would be helpful too so I can get a general idea of the common practices. Right now my only idea is 4 inch square tubing 1/4 wall spaced at about 10' with a 4 inch square tubing top rail and a gable roof out of 2x6 3/16 wall. And then stretching c perling across everything so I got something to screww the sheet metal to. I'm thinking there has got to be a more efficient way and still be sound....but if not that's cool too.
Reply:You can order prefabed steel buildings in kit form. They contract to erect all the way to finish or you order what you want all the way to siding, insulation and doors. You can then erect it yourself. If you can't cuss and drink like a qualified Ironworker maybe get someone else to erect. :') Tubing although strong and rigid is expensive on a per pound basis. You are much better off to use standard structural sections and in a kit they are ready with bolt holes, connection plates and bolts.
Reply:Already looked into prefab buildings. It would be cheaper to build it out of 1 inch plate. Lol
Reply:You have to consider that a 4 inch square tube is fairly rigid but when it is a column ten feet high it will be prone to failure by twisting. Engineers use a guidelines that consider slenderness ratio of compressive members. I am not an engineer but I have fabricated a lot of structural members. Rarely have I made up a compressive strut out of 4 inch square tubing that was a full ten feet long. Eight feet was about the limit. Longer struts were 5 by 5 or heavier. Your top rail is not under compression so a tube would not be a useful shape to use on a member that is under a bending stress like a conventional beam. Have you priced out tubing compared to the price of structural sections? Structural sections are cheap to make coming out of a rolling mill complete. A tube requires a strip of steel to be form rolled into shape then longtitudinally welded. Common building codes are for wood construction. As soon as you build in steel local building inspectors require an engineer's seal on the design. By purchasing a kit you have an engineered product. If you are outside city or town limits I guess you can do it.
Reply:Well thanks for the info....guess I will look some folks up around town who have actually built them.
Reply:Is a pole barn out of the question? Mine uses triple laminated 2 X 6s for the poles with the bottom 6 ft. pressure treated to reduce rot. If I was in a wetter area I would look into using some basement waterproofing and plastic 'socks" for the below grade sections, but haven't had a problem with just going pressure treated here and the shop is 13 yrs. old now. Rafter are common wood framing on (guess here 'cuz I don't remember for sure) 4 ft. centers and the walls have 4 X 4 horizontals on 4 ft. centers. The 4 ft. centers made sheetrocking the walls easy, but had to add more framing to hang sheet tin ceiling. A 15 X 20 shop would seem to be ideal for a wood frame...mine is 40 X 59 and had to be engineered to withstand snow load and this section of Wyoming is far winder than your section of Texas...U.S. gov did a study for the first of the large scale wind generator and selected either Dodge City, KS or Medicine Bow, WY as having the highest prevailing steady winds in the nation.Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:You should build it in normal metal building construction configuration and with normal metal building materials. It is the cheapest way and with the least amount of welding and fitting to get a structurally sound building. Build it with a 1 in 12 pitch. You will only need four columns, one at each corner. I would use 2 7/8" pipe, much cheaper than square tube and very strong.Are your rafters going to span the 15' or the 20'? If the 15' and 10' walls then here is your material list using regular metal building components. 4- 9'4" pipe 2- 20'x6" reciever channels from Metal Mart 10- 20'x6" purlines 80' of base angle 10 weld clips tin, closure strips and screws DoorsHope this helps and if you have questions just PM me. I've built metal buildings for over 30 years.
Reply:Originally Posted by WyoRoyIs a pole barn out of the question? Mine uses triple laminated 2 X 6s for the poles with the bottom 6 ft. pressure treated to reduce rot. If I was in a wetter area I would look into using some basement waterproofing and plastic 'socks" for the below grade sections, but haven't had a problem with just going pressure treated here and the shop is 13 yrs. old now. Rafter are common wood framing on (guess here 'cuz I don't remember for sure) 4 ft. centers and the walls have 4 X 4 horizontals on 4 ft. centers. The 4 ft. centers made sheetrocking the walls easy, but had to add more framing to hang sheet tin ceiling. A 15 X 20 shop would seem to be ideal for a wood frame...mine is 40 X 59 and had to be engineered to withstand snow load and this section of Wyoming is far winder than your section of Texas...U.S. gov did a study for the first of the large scale wind generator and selected either Dodge City, KS or Medicine Bow, WY as having the highest prevailing steady winds in the nation.
Reply:Originally Posted by bobyou should build it in normal metal building construction configuration and with normal metal building materials. It is the cheapest way and with the least amount of welding and fitting to get a structurally sound building. Build it with a 1 in 12 pitch. You will only need four columns, one at each corner. I would use 2 7/8" pipe, much cheaper than square tube and very strong.Are your rafters going to span the 15' or the 20'? If the 15' and 10' walls then here is your material list using regular metal building components. 4- 9'4" pipe 2- 20'x6" reciever channels from metal mart 10- 20'x6" purlines 80' of base angle 10 weld clips tin, closure strips and screws doorshope this helps and if you have questions just pm me. I've built metal buildings for over 30 years.
Reply:I found this picture of a little building just about the size your building and you can see the framing. Your building would be much more economical if it were 20'x20', only about a $100 more in tin and trim than the 15'x20' and of course slab cost. Attached Images
Reply:Here's another one that you can see the framing if you go with a shed pitch. Attached Images
Reply:Thanks a lot bob! I was starting to get discouraged before you came along.So what are weld clips? And what is the reciever channel for?
Reply:Bob, any interest in coming to Alaska? I might be putting up a shop this fallDynasty 200DXPassport plus w/ spoolmate 100victor 315c oxy/(act and prop)Miller digital elitemilwaukee power tools
Reply:Originally Posted by Bob
Reply:Weld clips are pieces of sheared plate usually 1/8 or 3/16" that you weld to the pipe columns and then the C purlines weld to them.Reciever channel is like a purline but just "C" shaped with no turn downs. The purlines slip into the reciever channel and you can screw through them into the C purlines. You can also weld the purlines to the reciever. You will use the reciever channel for your rafters and the purlines will run the length of the building. Hope this helps. Any more questions just ask away.
Reply:Originally Posted by KelvinWhat's with the double door? Grow house?
Reply:Originally Posted by turkBob, any interest in coming to Alaska? I might be putting up a shop this fall
Reply:Originally Posted by BobWeld clips are pieces of sheared plate usually 1/8 or 3/16" that you weld to the pipe columns and then the C purlines weld to them.Reciever channel is like a purline but just "C" shaped with no turn downs. The purlines slip into the reciever channel and you can screw through them into the C purlines. You can also weld the purlines to the reciever. You will use the reciever channel for your rafters and the purlines will run the length of the building. Hope this helps. Any more questions just ask away.
Reply:You can build you columns and rafters out of cold form cee members. Put them back to back and either stitch weld them together or bolt them through the webs. Weld you baseplate and your cap plate for the rafter connections. There is alot of places you can buy cold form cee's from. I would suggest a 12" deep cee .120 thickness. A lot of the major metal building suppliers make a cold form endwall in lieu of a heavier built up or hot roll framing memebers. You can also go with a flush girt system to help brace the columns and the girts can be as deep as the columns.http://www.nucorbuildingsystems.com/...ategoryID=5439
Reply:You should go for some good and better steel buildings company who offer better and best steel structures with some cheap and reasonable prices. So you have to do some search to get a best quote before rushing into the final decision.Last edited by Steel buildings; 09-16-2013 at 10:54 AM.
Reply:When we built our shop in 1988 (60'x100') we made the front 30'x60' offices and restrooms. It has 16' sidewalls, so we built a storage platform over the offices. To do that, we used 4" pipe for uprights, with I beam welded on top of them, then 2x12 floor joists topped with 1" t&g plywood. You could literally park a backhoe up there if you could get it up there... To get up there, I built a stairway out of left over purlin. We had never seen or used a mig back then, I welded all of the purlin with 3/32" 6010 (the old original red 5p). I remember I used our SA200, but couldn't tell you what the settings were. That was my first welding of something that thin. Worked great after I got the machine dialed in though.-------------------------Chemetron AC/DC 300 HFSnap-On MM300L Lincoln SP140 Lincoln AC/DC 225g Lincoln SA200 Lincoln SA200 Miller Bobcat 225GVictor torchesH&M and Mathey beveling machinesMcElroy Plastic pipe fusion
Reply:-------------------------Chemetron AC/DC 300 HFSnap-On MM300L Lincoln SP140 Lincoln AC/DC 225g Lincoln SA200 Lincoln SA200 Miller Bobcat 225GVictor torchesH&M and Mathey beveling machinesMcElroy Plastic pipe fusion
Reply:not the best pic, but you can see the stariway in the background-------------------------Chemetron AC/DC 300 HFSnap-On MM300L Lincoln SP140 Lincoln AC/DC 225g Lincoln SA200 Lincoln SA200 Miller Bobcat 225GVictor torchesH&M and Mathey beveling machinesMcElroy Plastic pipe fusion
Reply:Originally Posted by Steel buildingsYou should go for some good and better steel buildings company who offer better and best steel structures with some cheap and reasonable prices. So you have to do some search to get a best quote before rushing into the final decision.
Reply:There was a fellow on here last year building a steel frame garage like you are talking about.I am NOT a Building Engineer but would ASSUME that 1/4" walled 4" square would make excellent Columns.I know a guy who built a picnic shelter, probably 15' by 20' about 40 years ago with 2" pipe and other junk in Upstate New York south of Buffalo.It held snow on its roof and never fell down.So I suppose that other than fighting building codes, it could be done your way?Are you getting any closer to starting James? I wish I was closer as I would come give you a hand.If you PM me your email, I will make a drawing of the building and just what material you need and where it goes on the building. These things are a lot easier then you would think. I'm adding 25'x30' onto my shop right now and am almost done with the framing and have done the whole thing by myself. I know you can do this just fine. Any questions be sure to ask. Bob
Reply:Heck no I ain't even pulled permits or got plans drawn up yet. Wife come down pregnant again (number 4) and I been pretty hooked up with that stuff, work, and welding school.We are discussing whether we should add on again and build the shop or buy a 5 bed house with a garage.I'm leaning more toward building the shop and then adding on....we will see how it goesI did get some quotes on the slab and it looks like its gonna cost about 900 to do it myself or $2K to have it done. I'm thinking hire a pro and save my back. Haha
Reply:Hey Bob, I built my shop some years ago. It is wood framed and stuccoed. I have a pad on the side for covered parking, but never covered it. I put a ledger on the building side for the roofing members at 14' high. So it just needs a basic structure for a shed roof, using the building to support the high side. It has come time to finish it and I have been looking into how I want to do it. I was planning on framing it to match the building construction, but there is really no reason to, and I hate framing with wood. The pad is 54' long and 14' wide I have a stem wall along the perimeter, which was for a stud wall. With you experience in building metal buildings, how would you add a cover over that?
Reply:Btw, James, make it as big as you can possibly can afford to. No matter how big you build , it will be too small very soon. Mine is 30x60 and I outgrew it about 2 years ago. Granted, I run my welding business out of it, but there is no room for my hobbies, and it gets cramped at times when building large doors and gates. Go at least 20x20 if you can.
Reply:20X20 would be better and more cost effective, but it would block my rear gate so it not an option.
Reply:What if you put a bay door in front of you gate? Just trying to give you some ideas that may not have occurred to you. Another thought would be to have the original size building and add a shed roof to that side. It would be a great place to store materials, etc
Reply:That was my original idea, a shop with door facing the fence but that would be a garage And local codes say it I build a "garage" I have to build i t 25 feet off the rear property line. My "shed" can be built 3 feet off the propert line. Trust me I have spent plenty of time thinking on it and talking to the city. 15X20 is a compromise but its the biggest I can go unless I block off the rear gate all together and loose access to the alley. I need that access to get my little welding trailer in and out.
Reply:Would moving the gate be a possible option, to get the size you need? Just need to take down some fencing on one side, install the gate and put the fence back up on the other side where the gate was originally. Then you can make your shed in the dimensions you want with no compromise.
Reply:If I wanna move the gate I have to cut down a huge oak tree. 15X20 is fine.
Reply:Originally Posted by walkerHey Bob, I built my shop some years ago. It is wood framed and stuccoed. I have a pad on the side for covered parking, but never covered it. I put a ledger on the building side for the roofing members at 14' high. So it just needs a basic structure for a shed roof, using the building to support the high side. It has come time to finish it and I have been looking into how I want to do it. I was planning on framing it to match the building construction, but there is really no reason to, and I hate framing with wood. The pad is 54' long and 14' wide I have a stem wall along the perimeter, which was for a stud wall. With you experience in building metal buildings, how would you add a cover over that?
Reply:Thanks Bob. I am getting ready to take my son to Boy Scout camp for the weekend, so will digest that while I am gone. I will likely have a question or two for you once I get back.
Reply:jamesyarbrough, this is kinda vague but, after you get the iron up, you can curtain wall it in using 20 or 25 gauge metal studshttp://itools.clarkdietrich.com/catalogs.phpYou could go with 14 or 16 gauge structual but would need some engineering.
Reply:Thanks for the idea man. To tell ya the truth I have seen a lot of work done with metal studs in the commercial construction industry. I have actually done a little frame work my self when the need arised and there wasn't a sheet rocker near by to fix my problem for me. Metal studs are kind of expensive tho, but the go up really quick. All a man needs is a hilti gun and a drill to slam up a wall and the walls are extremely strong once you get some skin on em too. But it would be more cost effective to do it like Bob and plenty strong for my needs |
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发表于 2021-8-31 23:28:31