Welding fluxes

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I have been playing around a little with DC tig welding aluminum and been having good luck with using an aluminum stick rod coated with a white looking flux. I have bought some aluminum rods and wanted to try and find a flux that will work with these since there not coated, any suggestions?Thanks in advance SQUARE WAVE 175 TIG   DUAL MIG 151
Reply:First of all,not being a smart a@#,why are you tigging aluminum on DC? Second, I may be wrong, I think that "aluminum stick rod with a white looking flux" is actually a brazing rod. Not that I'm an expert,but I've never heard of using any kind of flux with a tig. Am I missing something here?
Reply:Originally Posted by Spar-XI have been playing around a little with DC tig welding aluminum and been having good luck with using an aluminum stick rod coated with a white looking flux. I have bought some aluminum rods and wanted to try and find a flux that will work with these since there not coated, any suggestions?Thanks in advance
Reply:You are mixing and matching SMAW aluminum rod with DC Positive GTAW, and asking about bare (perhaps cored, perhaps not) aluminum rod or wire and where to obtain aluminum flux, right? Focus on one process and use appropriate fillers and shielding. jmhoCity of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:You do not need or want flux when TIG welding. You will get better reults with AC high freq. You can TIG weld lighter gauge aluminum using DC rev. polarity, but won't get the cleaning action. I imagine that using a flux to achieve this would make a mess because the flux used for oxy/acetylene or SMAW wouldn't work with the high temp. created by a TIG arc. If you have had success with this, I would like to see the resultsposted. Learn something every day!
Reply:Originally Posted by Pro-Fab You can TIG weld lighter gauge aluminum using DC rev. polarity, but won't get the cleaning action.
Reply:Yes, I started off using the SMAW rods for aluminum and had good luck like I stated but just out of pure curiosity I thought I would try using the bare GTAW alum. rod but it wouldnt wet in no matter where I had the gas setting at. The flux coating on the SMAW rod must be the key aiding in keeping proper/equal heat distribution allowing the filler to wet in, just figured I would try and find a flux that I could apply to try and mimic and recreate this effect. I have taken some pictures of the piece I am working on but most all joints have been sanded down already, if interested as soon as I get them uploaded to photobucket I can post. Oh, and curb guy, have you seen a GTAW stick electrode(rod)? lol SQUARE WAVE 175 TIG   DUAL MIG 151
Reply:It does work to use aluminum welding flux and bare rod on dc negative. I am however not sure what the weld properties are. I have done this before. I use tinman tech aluminum gas welding flux when I gas weld aluminum and I have spread a thin layer on both sides of joints and ran a bead with dc negative at 110 amps on 1/8" 5052 with 5356 bare 3/32 rod with no flux on it. It welded fairly clean with no flare like you get from gas welding and I couldn't break the weld just the metal about an inch away. It looked just like it was gas welded and the puddle looked just like when you gas weld ( not shiny just blobby looking) and the rod dips right in. It was a 100% penetration joint and looked same top and bottom and the plates were just butted together with square edges. I will see if I get some time this week and weld up some different joints this way and post about them.Millermatic 252Lincoln 175 plusTA 185tswTA 161stlhypertherm pmax 45Victor torchHenrob torchAn S10 for each day of the week
Reply:Spar-X, I was not being a wise guy,just never heard of using an stick rod for tig welding,by the way,don't start a pi$$ing match with me lol !
Reply:Here is a pic of what I have been working onits 1" square tubing with a 1/8" wall, here is a pic of the butt weld sandedinner corner picsand a pic with the stick welding rod in the foregroundThe SMAW rod is RADNOR Alum 43 (3/32") , as far as I can tell it looks as if its getting full penetration but this piece will not be used in any kind of a structurally important situation, its only gonna hold some guitar pedals for a local rock band.........besides it feels strong. I also got some HOBART brand aluminum electrodes in case I cannot find a suitable flux to use with the bare aluminum rod filler I have.S obsessed, Thanks for giving me a name for a flux to look for, I was beginning to think that the subject of this thread might go south with " You cant DC tig Aluminum".........get that enough from the local AirGas folk   seems thinking outside the box gets frowns but the "MIX MATCHING" processes seems to be working with + results. SQUARE WAVE 175 TIG   DUAL MIG 151
Reply:What's the reason you are using flux and D/C . . . no A/C?-jimDynasty 300DXSmith He/Ar gas mixerMM350PHobart Handler 120Smith LW7, MW5, AW1A
Reply:Originally Posted by 4sfedWhat's the reason you are using flux and D/C . . . no A/C?
Reply:How are things over there in Egypt? If you are having decent results with the stick rods, just use them. It is not like it has not been done before, but on face value, it sounded like we were being put up to a bit of a joke. I understand now. We used an aluminum flux while oxyacetylene welding of aluminum that was water based. Now, I don't know where the supply of that stuff came from, but like I was saying, just keep using stick rod, it is already coated. The problem is the expense, those rods are not cheap! City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Hey guys, I haven't had a chance to do this yet. I am thinking late this afternoon I will be able to. Been swamped with work. I have been in process of building new carts for the welders so only one I have that is easily usable is the 252. I will set up the 185 and do some a/c with flux on backside and also some d/c negative. My portable setup is d/c only and in a pinch it has worked but would be awesome to find out what the actual weld properties are compared to a/c. I will have to cut some and polish them up to see what they look like inside.Millermatic 252Lincoln 175 plusTA 185tswTA 161stlhypertherm pmax 45Victor torchHenrob torchAn S10 for each day of the week
Reply:Originally Posted by Spar-Xtry and find a flux that will work with these since there not coated, any suggestions?
Reply:Okay so I had about an hour and a half today to setup and try this out. Like I said before I have done this on D/C before with my little portable setup just to repair a few things. It has worked in a pinch to hold some stuff together. A/C is obviously the winning choice for ease, and aesthetics. The flux seems to eat the oxide layer till the arc comes along and blows it off surface which is then under argon so there are basically no oxides to deal with. It does spit a bit and there is some flare to deal with. The bead is difficult to see since it isn't shiny like A/C. Here is the recipe for what seems best: Brush and wipe down pieces like normal, smear flux on front and if you want the back side, hit flux with propane torch to help dry it,  Start arc outside of flux and bring to joint then floor it and pulse with dabs of filler. Running steady seems to be very hard to control and puddle wants to sag very badly. On some pieces I got a nice flat bead but the backside had over 1/4" of bead ha ha. Here are the pics, It has been a few months since I have done any aluminum and didn't get much time to practice so this shows that with some more practice it could be feasable to produce some sound welds that look half decent. Millermatic 252Lincoln 175 plusTA 185tswTA 161stlhypertherm pmax 45Victor torchHenrob torchAn S10 for each day of the week
Reply:I completely forgot to add that this was 1/8" 5052 with bare, not coated 3/32 5356 rod.Millermatic 252Lincoln 175 plusTA 185tswTA 161stlhypertherm pmax 45Victor torchHenrob torchAn S10 for each day of the week
Reply:I imagine the flux would help with teh cleaning action when using DCen as long as it will withstand the high temp, but you would recieve better results using helium shield gas when using that polarity.
Reply:Ok.....Am I still missing something here?  Whats the point of the flux?Have we all gone mad?
Reply:Originally Posted by sn0border88Ok.....Am I still missing something here?  Whats the point of the flux?
Reply:Spar-X, cudo's for trying this.  The fact is that there are many inexpensive DC only TIG machines out there - heck even I have one.  They can do steel and stainless steel... but not aluminum.For aluminum, current talk is that you need an AC TIG machine (to blast those oxides off) - and those are expensive.So this is interesting for folks that would like to do aluminum from time-to-time.  The filler rod and flux is real cheap.  So if it works fairly good, then several folks could acquire a new capability - to weld aluminum.S obsessed - thanks for those comparative-photo results on 1/8 inch thick aluminum with both DC- (with flux) and AC.  Kind of mixed results, the laid down beads look better with AC but the end sections look pretty good for the DC- (with flux).  Anyway. it sure looks possible that with some practice, the technique could produce fair results.I'm wondering - would the DC- (with flux) results be better if you just coated the filler rod with flux instead of covering a lot of the base-metal surface?  That way, you might the get the oxide-removing flux just when you need it - upon dipping the rod into the weld pool.Rick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-Acet
Reply:I tried the flux on the joints as well as the rod and it seemed to be too much and didn't really help out. I did not try just the rod and not the joint though. It seemed like if there was too much flux it was really hard to see the puddle with all the flare. The flux seemed to burn off more so then flow around with the metal so I am not sure if just the rod being coated would help. Maybe a higher temp flux. I will definately try it out though. With practice, one could definately produce some better looking beads. However if you are trying that hard to weld a bunch of aluminum then you really should just switch to an a/c machine. If you are occasionaly welding some stuff together or for emergency fixes like I have had to do on the road then it definately works. I have some 1/4" 6061 that I will try out also but my thermal arc 185 is a little underpowered for that in a/c so I have a feeling the d/c will win. Might be easier to weld the thicker as well.Millermatic 252Lincoln 175 plusTA 185tswTA 161stlhypertherm pmax 45Victor torchHenrob torchAn S10 for each day of the week
Reply:Originally Posted by Rick VThe point of the flux is to remove surface oxides and allow the molten filler rod metal and melted base metal to flow together - to form a weld.
Reply:Heres an intresting read, though I dont feel like reqesting a copy of the paper it gives you an idea of whats out there.http://www.iiwelding.org/Publication...aspx?ID=174497http://www.iiwelding.org/Publication...aspx?ID=175589http://www.iiwelding.org/Publication...aspx?ID=174177Have we all gone mad?
Reply:Originally Posted by sn0border88What is the point of using it with AC?Hell, whats the point of using it for DC?  I am under the impression that those types of fluxes need a flame in order to actually function.  I could have made that same weld without using flux at all.Originally Posted by 4sfedThis might explain it . . .
Reply:My 1st thought was he was doing arc brazing using alum brazing rod you'd usually use with a standard torch, but the section picts don't look like what I'd expect from that process. I've only ever seen one person arc braze and that was years ago with a carbon arc torch..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by sn0border88Let me say this again...
Reply:Hey guys, the flux is NOT being used on A/C. However if you use on backside of an a/c weld it will probably be much smoother and nicer. When I weld things such as intercooler piping I always backpurge with argon to create a much smoother backside and it helps the back edges flow together so it seems. The flux should do the same thing on backside. The point of my posts were that in a pinch one could use flux and D/C if necessary to repair something. Yes you could use D/C - and helium but I don't have helium and also that is usually too hot for thin stuff from what I understand. Also this might be beneficial on dirty castings, who knows. People have tried this in past but there is no reason to do it since A/C works so well and if much prefered because of the natural cleaning it brings to the table. When I am on the road my thermal arc 161stl and sometimes a small argon go with me. I have had to do stick repairs every so often and there have been other things where the tig was necessary. My A/C tig stays in the shop. If I knew I had an aluminum fix to do I would pack up the ta185 and go.Millermatic 252Lincoln 175 plusTA 185tswTA 161stlhypertherm pmax 45Victor torchHenrob torchAn S10 for each day of the week
Reply:Just thought I would add THIS LINK that I ran across. Thought it was funny.........How quickly they turn on yas....... lol SQUARE WAVE 175 TIG   DUAL MIG 151