Looking to buy new TIG. . .suggestions, opinions, advice??

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I am looking to buy a new TIG machine.  I am a hobbyist welder who hopes to do some light welding work for pay.  Currently building a HD bobber motorcycle.  I have an HTP Mig 140 and have restored a few cars with it.  My background is mostly sheetmetal work and personal small parts fabrication.  I recently completed a TIG welding course at a local CC.In class we use the Miller Synchrowave 350.  It is one hell of a nice machine.  Way out of my price range or need range, but very nice.I am looking to spend around $2,000 for a machine.  My initial thought is to go back to HTP and buy their Invertig 201.  While checking out Cyberweld, I realized that the Miller Diversion 180 and the Synchrowave 200 are both in my price range.  The stats on the Diversion 180 seem to be substantially less than the HTP Invertig 201.  The Synchrowave is substantially larger in size and would take up a big chuck of floor space.  I currently have a 1 car garage that houses my welding gear and woodworking equipment.  Space is a premium.I am looking to solicit advice, opinions, suggestions, comments, etc so that I can make an informed decision.Much appreciated.canderso
Reply:Used Synchrowave 350s can be had for under $2000 on craigslist.  The problem with these big machines is that they require a big power connection to use at full potential.  Oh yeah, and they are B-I-G.   So hobbyist typically don't look for those machines.  Companies that are in business tend to need support on their machines and tend to buy new - not always, but mostly.  So who buys these big, but awesome machines?That's right, crazy hobbyists.  Rent a truck with hydraulic lift gate!One other option to consider is a used Miller Maxstar - DC only, about $1200 on Ebay.  If you need to drag it out to say your mailbox at the end of the driveway, you are only a thick, 110V extension cord away.  In theory it can do 150 Amps on 110.  That's enough for 1/8" thick TIG, and for stick I'm mostly using 3/32 rods (about 100 Amps max).  I invested in quick disconnect gas fittings and I have a small, single bottle cart (80 cuft is about the max) so I can drag this thing anywhere in the yard.Con Fuse!Miller Dynasty 350Millermatic 350P-Spoolmatic 30AMiller Multimatic 200Hypertherm PowerMax 1000G3Miller Maxstar 200DX
Reply:Thanks Confused.  The down side is the Maxstar is DC only.  I know I didn't say this in my original post, but I do have several Aluminum projects planned and would like a machine capable of such.I have been reviewing eBay based on your suggestion.  I have been keeping tabs on Craigslist for quite some time.  I missed an opportunity on a used Lincoln Squarewave 175 machine.  The guy had a bottle of Ar and only wanted $475 for the whole deal.  I took too long to find it.
Reply:Al tig sucks a lot more amps than steel. New I'd say you are looking for a TA 185 or 200 ac/dcGood for up to 1/4" alum. Can always add helium tomthe gas to get more a little more heat. Used i can't comment onG
Reply:ta185..
Reply:Miller Diversion is an entry level machine very basic but does alum ok.V
Reply:canderso,Not trying to "pick on you" specifically, but rather to address an issue that seems to prevail amonst many "new guys".In you post you state that you're a "hobbiest welder" but are looking at buying a tig machine to do "for pay" work.  This, to me, would appear to be putting the cart before the horse.I don't care if you have a Dynasty 350 sitting in the garage, you've got a lot of work ahead of you before you're ready to start charging for your tig welding.  One tig class just doesn't cut it.  If you got anything out of that class it should be how little you know about tig welding and how much there is to learn.Most any of the machines mentioned will provide you a means of developing your tig skill.  Some will allow you to progress further (adjustable freq, pulse, etc) but all have their limitations when it comes to "professional work".  Buy a quality machine that meets your current needs and upgrade it when your skill exceeds the machine capability.Just pi$$es me off when I read, "I just finished a tig course and what machine do I need to buy to do "for pay" welding".  Sorta an insult to those "professionals" who spent years developing their skill with tig.  Almost like saying, "hey, this tig is so easy, even a monkey can do it if he has the right machine".To that I say, "Learn the freaking process before you start talking about doing it for pay".Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Sundown monkeys don't do well they quit after they get burned. LOL.V.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIII don't care if you have a Dynasty 350 sitting in the garage, you've got a lot of work ahead of you before you're ready to start charging for your tig welding.  One tig class just doesn't cut it.  If you got anything out of that class it should be how little you know about tig welding and how much there is to learn.Just pi$$es me off when I read, "I just finished a tig course and what machine do I need to buy to do "for pay" welding".  Sorta an insult to those "professionals" who spent years developing their skill with tig.  Almost like saying, "hey, this tig is so easy, even a monkey can do it if he has the right machine".To that I say, "Learn the freaking process before you start talking about doing it for pay".
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIcanderso,Not trying to "pick on you" specifically, but rather to address an issue that seems to prevail amonst many "new guys".In you post you state that you're a "hobbiest welder" but are looking at buying a tig machine to do "for pay" work.  This, to me, would appear to be putting the cart before the horse.I don't care if you have a Dynasty 350 sitting in the garage, you've got a lot of work ahead of you before you're ready to start charging for your tig welding.  One tig class just doesn't cut it.  If you got anything out of that class it should be how little you know about tig welding and how much there is to learn.Most any of the machines mentioned will provide you a means of developing your tig skill.  Some will allow you to progress further (adjustable freq, pulse, etc) but all have their limitations when it comes to "professional work".  Buy a quality machine that meets your current needs and upgrade it when your skill exceeds the machine capability.Just pi$$es me off when I read, "I just finished a tig course and what machine do I need to buy to do "for pay" welding".  Sorta an insult to those "professionals" who spent years developing their skill with tig.  Almost like saying, "hey, this tig is so easy, even a monkey can do it if he has the right machine".To that I say, "Learn the freaking process before you start talking about doing it for pay".
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIIcanderso,Not trying to "pick on you" specifically, but rather to address an issue that seems to prevail amonst many "new guys".In you post you state that you're a "hobbiest welder" but are looking at buying a tig machine to do "for pay" work.  This, to me, would appear to be putting the cart before the horse.I don't care if you have a Dynasty 350 sitting in the garage, you've got a lot of work ahead of you before you're ready to start charging for your tig welding.  One tig class just doesn't cut it.  If you got anything out of that class it should be how little you know about tig welding and how much there is to learn.Most any of the machines mentioned will provide you a means of developing your tig skill.  Some will allow you to progress further (adjustable freq, pulse, etc) but all have their limitations when it comes to "professional work".  Buy a quality machine that meets your current needs and upgrade it when your skill exceeds the machine capability.Just pi$$es me off when I read, "I just finished a tig course and what machine do I need to buy to do "for pay" welding".  Sorta an insult to those "professionals" who spent years developing their skill with tig.  Almost like saying, "hey, this tig is so easy, even a monkey can do it if he has the right machine".To that I say, "Learn the freaking process before you start talking about doing it for pay".
Reply:SundownIII - Please read my statement again. . . I am a hobbyist welder who HOPES to do some LIGHT welding work for pay.  I never stated that I was going to go out and start doing "for pay" welding work.  I said that I would hope to. . .as in down the road once I have more experience at this.  I am not here to argue with anyone or step on anyones sensitivities.  I don't know you and you don't know me.  What you may perceive as "for pay" welding and what I may perceive it to be are likely two different things.  I am not looking to step in and start welding projects together for people.  I am not looking to build trailers or brackets or whatever.  I do enjoy doing artwork and creative type things.  I am an accomplished woodworker and would like to add additional metal working skills to my abilities to mix iron and wood in things that I build.  Those are things that I may DREAM about or HOPE that I could sell one day.  I have a full time job that I get paid for, it is not welding.  I also like to take a break from that job, go to my shop, escape and be creative making things.  Is it really too much to ask that I could expect to maybe sell something that I create without stepping on the toes of "those "professionals" who spent years developing their skill with tig."  At some point it might be nice to make a little of the money back that I put out on the machine.I became a member of this forum after reading posts for several years because I wanted to increase my knowledge level by asking questions.  I took a class at the local CC because I wanted to explore a new process and learn more.  I have read numerous posts written by you (SundownIII) and have learned a lot from them.  Sorry you feel the way you do.  If you knew me, I am sure you would feel differently, as you would know that I am nothing like the "new guy" you describe through your post.
Reply:Originally Posted by candersoSundownIII - Please read my statement again. . . ...
Reply:Well, I thought I was doing a pretty good job learning aluminum TIG.  Call this a humbling experience.  I was putting together a 'driving seat' for playing video games.   You may have seen them in magazine etc.  Mount the steering wheel, foot pedals, seat etc. on an aluminum rail.  Anyway, the mounting plate for the foot pedal had to be a bit rounded so I only put a generous tack in one spot (call it 2 inches long) and was planning to bend the rest of the aluminum around and finish the weld.In steel, a 2" long tack will pretty much hold up the Brooklyn bridge.My kids snapped it in a day.  Weld pretty much was laying on top of the base material.Basically not enough penetration (but it looked pretty) and concave to boot (maybe even hot cracked).Bottom line, its fine to learn aluminum, but before you do anything structural, you need to understand the limits of the material and your limits.Search these forums and their are plenty of stories about even professionally built aluminum trailers having issues.  Needless to say, I have shelved, for now, my plans of building an aluminum car trailer until I'm 100% sure I can do it right (strength and not distort the whole thing).  To do that I'm going to waste a serious amount of aluminum proving I can make solid joints on thicker materials.  Weld on room temperature materials - and test them to breaking point.  Until then, lawn ornaments only Con Fuse!Miller Dynasty 350Millermatic 350P-Spoolmatic 30AMiller Multimatic 200Hypertherm PowerMax 1000G3Miller Maxstar 200DX
Reply:If your not going to weld aluminum, any old CC machine will do. You won't have a remote or gas valve, but can still do good quality work from a scratch start rig. A Miller Dialarc or Lincoln Idealarc 250 are great machines that can be had cheap. There is a 60's vintage "toumbstone" that I run my TIG rig off of and it is smooth as silk on SS pipe.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:In an effort to update and somewhat complete this post, I figure I will post the final decision . . .in the end I decided to go with the HTP Invertig 201.  Why?1. I have prior very positive experience with HTP products and customer service.2.  When comparing numbers only, the statistics on the HTP vs the Miller Dynasty stacked heavily in the favor of HTP while also factoring in cost.3.  While I would like to support the local LWS, I would have likely purchased a Miller or other major name brand from an Internet dealer anyway.4.  I do not make my living at welding.  Therefore, if something ever did happen, I can afford to wait a day or so to get the part from HTP.  In addition, I am very comfortable with the customer service provided and am completely confident that any potential problem can be diagnosed over the phone.5.  In the end, when I called to place the order, Diana was actually the woman who sold me my Mig unit over 9 years ago.  Speaks a lot to have the same people working for you after that much time anymore these days.  She was also kind enough to knock some money off and throw in a discount on necessary filler rods and other odds and ends I wanted to pick up.So for me, it seems like the way to go.  For everyone?  Maybe not.  The unit arrived at a friends garage the other day, as I am out of town on business.  Very much looking forward to picking it up on Friday and seeing if I can run a couple of beads this weekend.  We will see what time allows.Thanks again to those that offered advice.  It is appreciated.
Reply:Please post an update when you get to use the machine. I too have been considering going with the HTP. I sold my Econotig, and want to move up to a more advanced machine. It's SOMEWHAT portable, too, so it can be moved to various places. From all my research, you made a good move.
Reply:I'm waiting for some info on this as well.
Reply:I too have bought (its in  transit) a HTP 201 and got excellent service from Diana as well  all via email.She was always on the ball. One of the main features is the amp draw. You can use it on a 220v 30ampcircuit running right up to 200 amps. No one can do this and still offer these features, Miller, Lincoln,Everlast none of them. Well this is based on the info those companies gave via start amps and running amps.AMS performance use these as wellsee a review here  http://hre.com/HTPInvertigreview.html
Reply:Well, I am home.  It is here in one piece.  Packaging was great.  Nothing was damaged.  The machine appears to be in perfect shape.  I only have a bottle of 75/25 for my MIG welder.  I intend to get a bottle of straight Ar for the TIG, but in the mean time, can I use the 75/25 with mild steel until I have time to get the second cylinder?I would love to fire this up and get some photos of my attempts at TIG welding loaded up here for everyones amusement and my education.Here is how it sits at the moment.  I have a small 4 drawer cabinet that I will build a small square tube base for with wheels and casters.  Then put the TIG machine on top of that, with a bottle on the back.I would like to get another similar cabinet or build a stand for the MIG welder too.  I am to the point, I would like to have it higher off the ground and closer to countertop height.
Reply:How does it feel weight wise?
Reply:It was no problem carrying it weight wise.  Not awkward to handle either.  I carried the box in from the car by myself.  The handles are nice on the top of the machine too.  It is definitely a two-handed operation.  I am sure the Miller Dynasty is nicer weight wise and can likely be handled with one hand.  I would not be discouraged by the weight of the machine to move this about from my home shop to a friends shop.
Reply:oh nice! Dont lag on the argon bottleWell mine has been shipped out and i eagerly await.
Reply:Looking forward to hearing some reviews on the Invertig.  I really like the CK torches that HTP sells as standard equipment with it. Originally Posted by candersoI only have a bottle of 75/25 for my MIG welder.  I intend to get a bottle of straight Ar for the TIG, but in the mean time, can I use the 75/25 with mild steel until I have time to get the second cylinder?
Reply:Thanks jakeru.  I read that sticky a while ago about the 75/25 and since forgot.  A friend of mine wants to come over and give the machine a try.  I told him I needed to get a straight Ar bottle.  Then he reminded me I use 75/25 for mild steel on my MIG.  At the moment I couldn't remember why that wasn't a good idea.I like my Invertig 201. It was at the time I bought it it was the best bang for the buck. Got it with the water cooler and 25' hoses. It was under $3,000. Have had it for approx 3 years now. Never a problem. I would buy one again.You can not use c25 for tig welding. Just like you cant use rg45 welding rod with tig. It will mess up the tungsten something bad.mm135HTP Invertig 201 With water cooler9" Southbend LatheLots of hand tools.
Reply:I have had my Invertig 201 for 2-3 years now.  Not one problem with it.  It can do a lot more than I can.  I eventually found a water cooler for it cheap and upgraded to a water cooled torch.  I should have bought it that way in the first place.  The smaller torch makes life easier for me.  I accidently used C25 once.  There is no doubt that something is wrong the second you start the arc.  Congrats,Rene
Reply:Originally Posted by jakeruLooking forward to hearing some reviews on the Invertig.  I really like the CK torches that HTP sells as standard equipment with it.If you use 75/25 MIG gas for TIG, you are going to oxidize your tungsten and make a mess.  There is a stickied thread about it here:http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=43982My Everlast Super200P has 200 amps max TIG output (at 60% duty cycle) and is rated at a peak amp draw of 26 amps @ 220V.  It runs off a 30 amp circuit quite nicely.I have mine set up with a combination 30/50 amp plug, so it can plug into either a 30amp clothes dryer receptacle or a 50 amp welding circuit receptacle.