Buying a welder that has been sitting outside?

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I have been looking for a Syncrowave 250 for a while now. my price range is pretty low, $1500 all in including a bottle.There is an estate auction coming up and they have one that I'm sure will go for cheap.Pictures show it has a nice cooler with it.It is under a covered structure but has open sides, so I'm sure it gets wet if there is a good side wind when raining.I havent found any good info on buying a welder thats been outside.  I'm in Oklahoma so salt is not an issue but humidity is pretty high.If i could get this welder for cheap do you think it would still work?And if some items are messed up are they typically easy items or will the whole thing be trashed?Thanks,Nick
Reply:As an electronics tecnician, I would shy away from any electrical equipment not designed for it, that has spent significant time outdoors.Most engine drive units are weathertight, but generally, shop units are not. As someone who routinely attends auctions, has hit a few home-runs and flops, I'd factor in the possibility of a major repair into what I'd pay for the unit.>That is a big a-zz-ed unit (over $5K new). So, yeah if you can get it with a few accesories for under $1,200.00 and figure spending another $300+ in getting it transported, installed and running properly, you'll have yourself a sweet deal.Just remember to keep your budget in mind when the bidding starts to heat up.(I could ramble on about stuff that went for way over retail because 2 people HAD to have it.)Good Luck!Be wary of The Numbers: Figures don't lie,. but liars can figure.Welders:2008 Lincoln 140 GMAW&FCAW2012 HF 165 'toy' GTAW&SMAW1970's Cobbled together O/A
Reply:I'd have to see it to see how "wet" it can get where it's sitting. The side panels will protect it form light wind blown rain as long as it's not sitting where it gets totally drenched. If water isn't pouring into the unit, I wouldn't be too worried, but I wouldn't pay top dollar on the machine. Keep in mind it's not uncommon to take a pressure washer to the inside of a machine to clean it when doing a repair/restoration, so a little water won't hurt it.If you can pick it up cheap, I'd go for it. The cooler, pedal, torch and reg will have some value if nothing else and if it comes with a cylinder, so much the better..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I agree with DSW and would ask you if this covered structure is where the previous owner used to use it?  If so then I'd say it's likely no more subject to issues from high humidity (or occasional light misting if you will) than my equipment that sits in a non-climate controlled shop.MM200 w/Spoolmatic 1Syncrowave 180SDBobcat 225G Plus - LP/NGMUTT Suitcase WirefeederWC-1S/Spoolmatic 1HF-251D-1PakMaster 100XL '68 Red Face Code #6633 projectStar Jet 21-110Save Second Base!
Reply:like the others have said, I doubt it has ruined the machine, unless its sitting on the edge half out in the open getting poured on. Know what you will give for the unit. when the bidding goes over that stop. WHen I got my machine, I knew what I could pay, each one at the auction sold for just over my budget. It sucked, but I had to walk away, luckily the very last one went within my budget and I won! It gets pretty intense when you are bidding.- Christian M.C3 Welding & Fabrication - CNC Plasma Cutting-Mobile Welding-Custom welding and fabwww.c3welding.com
Reply:Thanks for the reply's!  Here is the picture I'm basing it on, they may have just moved it to this location for the auction I'm not sure.I dont see a pedal but I assume the water cooler will be included.I figure I'll go either way and see what it goes for, I figure anywhere in the $500 range is a great deal.  If it looks like they just moved it out my price will increase quite a bit.There is also a Millermatic 200 in the garage area so if that goes for dirt cheap I might pick that up too.  I dont need a mig but that would be a big improvement over mine.The auction isnt until right before Thanksgiving so I have some waiting to do.
Reply:A lot of guys love the MM200. I'd certainly jump on that if the price was right, especially if I didn't have a 230v mig. I'd guess they moved it there for the sale. That's not all that uncommon for them to spread out lots to keep things separate and make room for guys to get up close to the items for sale..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWA lot of guys love the MM200. I'd certainly jump on that if the price was right, especially if I didn't have a 230v mig. I'd guess they moved it there for the sale. That's not all that uncommon for them to spread out lots to keep things separate and make room for guys to get up close to the items for sale.
Reply:I guess I'll play it by ear.   Its not for about 3 weeks so I'll let you guys know what happens.Thanks again for the help
Reply:I've got that same model.I'd figure the cooler, torch, and leads are worth $400+. If you can buy it for $800-900, then add a bottle, you still are under your budget if you have to have some work. Chances are it will be fine. Can you test it or at least plug it in?Remember it weighs 350-400 pounds. I had to hire a wrecker to unload it from my truck when I got it home ($45).I've been very happy with mine.Burt _____________________Miller Syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Miller 375 Plasma Cutter Hobart Handler 12010FtDrillBit.com
Reply:Yea I have thought about the weight, they will most likely have a fork truck there, but i am also going to bring my engine hoist and some plywood just incase.Glad to hear you like the machine!
Reply:Hi nichoms Make sure you check the power for the machine ,sometimes people buy machines only to find out they are 3 phase and they can't use them in their garage
Reply:Originally Posted by John 53Hi nichoms Make sure you check the power for the machine ,sometimes people buy machines only to find out they are 3 phase and they can't use them in their garage
Reply:7A749 -  I really appreciate all the insight.   Sadly in my area, Oklahoma and surrounding 300 miles, I have only seen three syncrowave 250's for sale for my price range. One was $1200 and was gone instantly, and two were $1500 and sold within a day.  And those were all about 3.5 hours away.   There are a couple for sale right now on craigslist but they are $2500-3000.  I have been checking craigslist daily for about 3 or 4 months. I see a lot of them on ebay for more reasonable prices but they are typically in the North East and shipping would be astronomical. That's good to know about the black louvered panel being indicative of the newer models.I was always told repairs for syncros were relatively cheap so that's good to know some ballpark figures.We have done some storage unit auctions so I know how the bidding can get intense, I'll try to keep my cool hahaAnyone know of other resources to find used welders?  Red D arc didn't have any AC/DC machines, typically only DC.  Most Local weld supply shops seem to have new only.Last edited by nichoms; 10-31-2013 at 11:00 PM.
Reply:Using Searchtempest can expand your CL search area. I usually use "welder" for my search term and sort the list manually to find "deals". Adding a tank of fuel to your budget might allow you to go grab a "deal" vs shipping. Depends how serious you are about grabbing a machine..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:DSW - Thanks man, I do use search tempest daily, but I've found it doesn't always show everything for some reason. It is a great tool, but I found s 250 in Kansas city and it would not show on search tempest no matter how I tried to modify the search.  That has been my only real issue with it though.  Its a lot easier to use it than it is searching through 25+ CL sites.7A749 - Again thanks for all the awesome info.  You have obviously done this a time or two.  Buying the MM200 to flip is a great idea if I can get it cheap enough.  I have seen them go for over $1000 around here lately. Great to know about Kaye at Bills repair, I will call them today.
Reply:Well in the meantime I have run across a 1995 model Lincoln Square Wave 355.  I know it is overkill on the power but has all the features I want, arc start control, pulse, crater fill, spot timer, pre/post flow, AC Balance, etc.Looks like an awesome machine.  Guy has it on ebay for $750, 0 bids, buy now at $1500 and is a couple hours away.I'm thinking if I went there and offered him $1000 he would take it.Problem is, it has no pedal, ground, torch, or anything at all...  I asked the guy if I could test it out and he said he has a ground and stinger to test it, but that wouldnt tell me anything about the TIG functions.I dont know how comfortable I would feel buying this without being able to test TIG Function.These machines seem to go for $2500+ on ebay.Any thoughts?
Reply:Actually looks like the guy has a bottle and torch he will hook up to test it out. No pedal so I guess I could scratch start it.Wouldnt be able to test the HF start, but could still see if the other functions work.What do you guy guys think?
Reply:Well for the time being this thing is unaffordable for me.I guess I should have waited before posting. I figured if I could get it for $1000 then add a pedal, torch, bottle, regulator, and possibly some free ground leads from my work, I'd be at like $1550 or so.   Guy wouldnt take $1000 for it though.My house has 200amp service (with panel in garage) with 5 open slots so I figure I could run new wires and twin 50amp breakers to make a 100 amp receptical.   Might not be able to run my AC, washer/drier, and welder at the same time but I think it would be fine just running AC and welder with all the rest of the stuff in the house.   Should only pull in the 90amp range right on arc start with most big welders right?  Then should calm down to the 40-50 amp range.Please let me know if I'm living in the dream world or if I'm missing something.Thanks,Nick
Reply:Originally Posted by nichomsMy house has 200amp service (with panel in garage) with 5 open slots so I figure I could run new wires and twin 50amp breakers to make a 100 amp receptical.   Might not be able to run my AC, washer/drier, and welder at the same time but I think it would be fine just running AC and welder with all the rest of the stuff in the house.   Should only pull in the 90amp range right on arc start with most big welders right?  Then should calm down to the 40-50 amp range.
Reply:Twin 50 amp breakers.....no such thing.  "Twin" breakers (aka tandem breaker) are actually 2 SEPARATE breakers built into the space of a single "standard sized" breaker.  And twin breakers are not available in bigger than 30 amp capacity per National Electric Code standards.I think you are actually referring to "Double Pole" breaker.   But even at that rate you cannot team up 2 50 amp, double pole breakers to make a 100 amp circuit.If you are going to create a 100 amp circuit, you have to use a double pole breaker rated at 100 amp.
Reply:Ok, yea this is something like I was referring to:http://www.lowes.com/pd_275333-82364...ductId=3029946Since I'm not familiar with the terminology I said twin because my assumption was your using two slots in the panel with a 100 amp breaker so your essentially running 50 amps per slot.  Thanks for the clarificationLast edited by nichoms; 11-04-2013 at 02:08 PM.
Reply:Yea I dont need 350 amps, way overkill.  But if I can get it cheaper than I can find a 250 I'll go for it.Got a bunch of aluminum from a guy I work with today for next to nothing so I should have plenty of practice material.When I run the 220v I'll also run several 110v recepticles as my garage has very few.  3 car garage with only one 2 plug recepticle and one ceiling mounted for each garage door.  Pretty pathetic.I have already added a 2 plug and a 4 plug receptical to the ceiling to run six 4 foot fluorescent enclosures on a single switch.  3 of the enclosures have four 4' bulbs so it made my garage much brighter.That covers the light, and the 220v will cover the welder, but one 2 plug isnt enough for all the other tools.
Reply:Well I picked up a welder tonight!!  I got the Lincoln Square Wave TIG 355.  It was cheaper than I've found any of the syncrowaves around here and it has more power and tons of features so it was a no brainer.  It has a range of 2-400 amps and has pulse, spot timer, pre/post flow, AC balance, and everything else so I'll never need to upgrade unless I want a newer small machine eventually.I got to try it out scratch start and stick and it seemed to work fine.  I wont be able to test all the other stuff until I get all the accessories.  This was machine only, but after I buy everything, including a bottle I'll be right at my $1500 budget.
Reply:Originally Posted by nichomsWell I picked up a welder tonight!!  I got the Lincoln Square Wave TIG 355.  It was cheaper than I've found any of the syncrowaves around here and it has more power and tons of features so it was a no brainer.  It has a range of 2-400 amps and has pulse, spot timer, pre/post flow, AC balance, and everything else so I'll never need to upgrade unless I want a newer small machine eventually.I got to try it out scratch start and stick and it seemed to work fine.  I wont be able to test all the other stuff until I get all the accessories.  This was machine only, but after I buy everything, including a bottle I'll be right at my $1500 budget.Score!TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:I've heard of people keeping Syncrowave 250s on docks...so no, this wouldn't trouble me too much, assuming it wasn't one big rust heap.
Reply:After I get my wiring completed and get all my accessories (Ordered a SCC pedal, some tungsten, and a WP17 flex head last night) then I'm sure I'll be on the forum asking specific questions and for critiques of my technique.  I have run a TIG a few times but am mostly a wire welder guy so I'll have a lot of learning to do!I'll get a water cooled torch eventually after I make a cooler.  Figure I can learn with an air cooled though.
Reply:Originally Posted by nichomsAfter I get my wiring completed and get all my accessories (Ordered a SCC pedal, some tungsten, and a WP17 flex head last night) then I'm sure I'll be on the forum asking specific questions and for critiques of my technique.  I have run a TIG a few times but am mostly a wire welder guy so I'll have a lot of learning to do!I'll get a water cooled torch eventually after I make a cooler.  Figure I can learn with an air cooled though.
Reply:you will have a lot of machine for around 1500. Good score. Im jealous- Christian M.C3 Welding & Fabrication - CNC Plasma Cutting-Mobile Welding-Custom welding and fabwww.c3welding.com
Reply:Originally Posted by shovelonJust limit your amps to 200 or you may melt that aircoooled torch head right off. The flexhead is nice though. If you did not get an operator's manual for the machine with it you will be able to download it from Lincoln's site.
Reply:Thanks Christian, I feel like I got a pretty good welder for the price!
Reply:7A749 - Thanks, I appreciate that.Now to figuring out my garage wiring, copper wiring is very expensive!  I'm looking at 4/3 Romex with ground and its like $4.44 a foot.  Probably need about 50 foot so I'm looking at $222 in just the wire.   I have read about using aluminum wire, but I'm not so sure about that.Time to pull out the electrical books...
Reply:Great machine and in your budget! Congratulations.It seems if you keep your eyes open, there are good deals to be found. That welder looks to be in very good condition.Once you get it setup, post some pictures and ask a lot of questions.Burt _____________________Miller Syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Miller 375 Plasma Cutter Hobart Handler 12010FtDrillBit.com
Reply:Well after doing some pricing I think I decided I'm going to be sort of ghetto with my welder hookup...The previous owner installed an extra long (50 foot) plug on the welder, my garage is only 30 feet wide, so instead of running wires though the wall, up through the attic, down inside the other wall and to a receptacle I am just going to put the receptacle right next to my panel and run the welder plug wire up along the ceiling over to the other side of the garage.That will be about $15 in wire compared to about $270.Wont be the prettiest but at least I wont have to worry about running 50 foot of copper wire through my attic.I figure I might just go with some extra heavy wire since it will only be like a 2 foot run.
Reply:I would rather set the welder near your panel, buy the longer torch and ground leads for reach..  I surely wouldnt want a cord ran up across the ceiling..  maybe use the long cord and roll it up when your done for the day or night.. A nice machine like that, I would set it up right the first time..  you got a great deal on it, spend the money to hook it up right..  Who says you need to set it up right now, use it for now with the long plug and save up and set it up like you want it..Last edited by brucer; 11-12-2013 at 04:17 PM.tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:If I have the long cord either way, rolled up or ran along the ceiling along the corner, what is the difference other than the look?  The length of cable will be the same so current drop (even if negligible) will be the same.  It is not preferable at all, but I dont see it as a safety hazard or anything that would degrade the performance of the welder.Am I incorrect?Thanks
Reply:Ok, I've been looking at what I'll need to buy for wiring and I'm a little concerned.So this machine is supposed to pull 100amps when close to full power (more than I'll ever need) but when I try to look up the plug and receptacle I see that all these plugs seem to be rated at like 50 amps.I believe the plug thats on the welder is the standard "Crows foot" style lincoln uses.  I was trying to find a receptacle for that and started wondering if I should change the plug end to another style.  Looking into it I noticed they are all rated at 50-60 amps.I started researching and I was reading that you should hardwire something with this high of amperage draw.  Anyone have any insight on this subject?BTW, my foot pedal, Torch, and tungsten all came in the mail today, So I could be welding this weekend if I get the wiring done!Thanks,Nick
Reply:Do you have enough available amperage in your breaker box for 100amp ?   If your not going to be moving the welder around put in a 100amp disconnect and wire straight into the disconnect.You might need to find an Electrician and ask him about it, he would know what you need specific to your location for codes and such..tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:My house has 200 amp service.  This machine was operating off a 60 amp breaker from the people I bought it from so I'm sure I wont need 100 amps but doesnt hurt to have the extra power incase I go unbalanced AC or something and pull a little more than normal.There are several open slots on my breaker and we keep 3 bedrooms shut off all the time, so as long as I'm not running the tv, AC, dryer, dishwasher, and welder all at the same time I think should be ok.  I dont plan on moving the welder, at least not more than a few feet.My buddy is an electrician and I think he is going to help me, but I just want to figure out what I think I want/need to do before I run it all by him.
Reply:That unit is rated at 100 Amps input on 230 V for 350 Amps output. Connect it directly or through a disconnect switch.  Forget an outlet unless you luck into a huge industrial type connector for cheap."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder