How to properly finish off a bead using Stick

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Howdy - I got a Lincoln 125/225 AC/DC stick welder that I've been practicing with - I'm very new at this as you will soon learn.I've been running various types of electrodes (6011, 6013, and 7018) with mixed results.   So far, I think the 6013 with AC setting at about 105-120A has been producing the cleanest beads for me (though some of you may disagree...  )Anyway, I need some tips about starting/stopping my beads.   It seems that most of my beads end with what looks like a flat spot with a small dimple in it - it looks bad.  How do I properly end the bead so that it ends in a nice and uniform?Here are some sample pics:Last edited by Carbide; 08-08-2011 at 02:05 PM.
Reply:Double back over your weld, 3/8 inch or so. When you go to stop, back up some, and let the puddle fill. Do not open the arc length, if anything jam the rod in closer.Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPDouble back over your weld, 3/8 inch or so. When you go to stop, back up some, and let the puddle fill. Do not open the arc length, if anything jam the rod in closer.
Reply:I meant don't open up the arc length, while your backing up. Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:See how I backed up on this weld just a touch, to let the crater fill? Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by CEPSee how I backed up on this weld just a touch, to let the crater fill?
Reply:Yes it is stick,7018. And no it's not too impressive. Barely acceptable, us old guys shake a lot. You'd think shaking would help with 6010, but I shake the wrong direction!   Don’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
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Reply:Switch your machine to DCEP (reverse polarity) and leave it there. Then start out with your 7018. Turn the amps up until you get nice easy starts, then drag the rods down the length of the weld, when you get to the end just pause and let the crater fill then pull the rod away. No weave needed. With that technique you should be able to get some good results right away and then post up some pictures. It is always best to have a welder show you the basics first, but 7018 in the flat position on DCEP is going to give you the best results.
Reply:Originally Posted by walkerSwitch your machine to DCEP (reverse polarity) and leave it there. Then start out with your 7018. Turn the amps up until you get nice easy starts, then drag the rods down the length of the weld, when you get to the end just pause and let the crater fill then pull the rod away. No weave needed.
Reply:Looks like you may need to slow down just a bit from the picts on 7018. The 1st 6013 pict looks like the speed was close. You need to work on consistancy of movement. That simply means lots and lots of practice doing things exactly the same every time until it's second nature. Try and get as comfortable as possible and do a few dry runs before striking an arc to be sure you can move thru the whole weld consistantly and not end up in an awkward position in the middle or at the end. If anything start out awkward and move to a more comfortable position if you have no choice..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Why is your 7018 weld so lumpy? this indicated you sped up and slowed down. Try just dragging the rod, keep the arc fairly tight let the flux hold it off the metal. The rod basically consumes itself and your hand just sits still (sometimes you need to slowly push the rod in because it consumes faster than the deposition rate). Give it a try, sometimes dragging the rod is too close and you need to maintain an additional gap. You can also use the end crater to your advantage, leave it low and start the next weld slightly in front of it, then wash back, fill in the crater, and continue welding. You can make seamless starts and stops doing this.this was 1/8" 7018 dragged to keep a low arc voltageLast edited by MikeGyver; 08-08-2011 at 08:18 PM.Welding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:Here's a fairly smooth 7018 weld on 2 inch pipe 6-G. Attached ImagesDon’t pay any attention to meI’m just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:Originally Posted by MikeGyverWhy is your 7018 weld so lumpy? this indicated you sped up and slowed down. Try just dragging the rod, keep the arc fairly tight let the flux hold it off the metal. this was 1/8" 7018 dragged to keep a low arc voltage
Reply:To finish the end of the bead and fill the crater just pause for a second or 2, then snap the rod away quick.Seeing as were all posting photos with our advice....First pass on 6mm plate, 2.5mm E6013 at about 95A (electrode +)Second pass, 3.25mm E6013 at about 115A (electrode +)Third pass, 3.25mm E6013 at about 105A (electrode +)All the beads were finished using the method that I mentioned above.HTHLast edited by Baila La Pinza; 08-09-2011 at 02:05 PM.
Reply:Very nice. To the OP, You can tell his settings and all were perfect from the way the slag pealed right up on it's own on those welds. 6013, 7018, 7024 and 7014 will all do that when you get everything right.6013, 7014 and 7024 are all drag rods that can be used on an AC machine. That means all you have to do is keep the flux on the rod in constant contact with the plate as you move along. It can simplify things when learning..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWYou can tell his settings and all were perfect from the way the slag pealed right up on it's own on those welds.
Reply:Originally Posted by CarbideYes, very nice indeed.  I've gotten the slag to peel off on its own like that only ONCE before but to date I was never able to repeat that.
Reply:Originally Posted by Baila La PinzaTo finish the end of the bead and fill the crater just pause for a second or 2, then snap the rod away quick.
Reply:45 degrees (or even more) is fine for dragging, you can't really drag on the flux at 15 degrees.Welding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWVery nice. To the OP, You can tell his settings and all were perfect from the way the slag pealed right up on it's own on those welds. 6013, 7018, 7024 and 7014 will all do that when you get everything right.6013, 7014 and 7024 are all drag rods that can be used on an AC machine. That means all you have to do is keep the flux on the rod in constant contact with the plate as you move along. It can simplify things when learning.
Reply:Originally Posted by Baila La Pinza...dragging the rod is a good way to learn, myself, sometimes I drag sometimes I hold a bit of arc length depending on what I'm doing.
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermickn fact, always keep a short arc, but make sure your running enough amps to ensure to the rod doesn't stick. You'll get less splatter, better penetration and better control
Reply:As DSW and Mike mentioned in their previous posts, dragging the electrode is exactly that, get the electrode burning nicely, then angle it over to about 45 degrees, push it in untill the flux touches the metal and litteraly drag it along, constantly applying pressure as you go. When you're doing it right it'll feel like you're literally gouging your way along the material as you can feel the rod/flux breaking down as it's consumed.A couple of things, are you welding towards yourself (how I was taught) as opposed to welding across from right to left? Also the arc length should be no longer than the size of the rod (3/32" rod, 3/32" arc length max), 1/4" is way too long, shorten it and you'll see that the arc will settle down allowing you to see what you're doing.Not the best welding ever, but If you watch this video, you can see how the arc becomes more fierce as it becomes longer, which the welder constantly corrects to keep control of the puddle (sorry, couldn't find one of someone dragging their rod). If you look closely you can see that when he has the arc length correct, you can see the puddle clearly, but when he has it too long, all you can see are sparks.LinkLast edited by Baila La Pinza; 08-10-2011 at 11:04 AM.
Reply:Here's a great demo video on arc length - 3rd picture down is the video.http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/learning-arc.htmRick V 1 Airco Heliwelder 3A/DDR3 CTC 70/90 amp Stick/Tig Inverters in Parallel1 Lincoln MIG PAK 151 Oxy-AcetOriginally Posted by Baila La PinzaAs DSW and Mike mentioned in their previous posts, dragging the electrode is exactly that, get the electrode burning nicely, then angle it over to about 45 degrees, push it in untill the flux touches the metal and litteraly drag it along, constantly applying pressure as you go. When you're doing it right it'll feel like you're literally gouging your way along the material as you can feel the rod/flux breaking down as it's consumed.
Reply:To the OP: don't be discouraged by these guys showing off their very good welds. It takes time to train your muscles. Start by thinking about how your hand is going to move as you go along the bead with the rod getting shorter. Remember that a 1/8" 7018 rod should run about 6" of bead. Your hand actually goes more down towards the puddle than it does move along the bead. With this firmly in mind, set your elbow so it acts like a hinge, and hold the stinger with both hands, and move like you had in your mind. Keep trying. You can make a lot of progress quickly if you practice in this way in the presence of an experienced welding teacher who can set you right quickly. I used to use a cutting torch for a living back when I built Navy ships, cutting out pieces of steel to fit into the ship. I thought I was pretty good with a torch in those days. Much later I learned to weld well, and now when I cut with a torch I'm simply amazed at how much better my cuts look. It's simply because I have trained my muscles to move steadily and smoothly. Ugly welds can be plenty strong for many things. Make things. Grind/paint/use them. Make things for people. Stick with it. Aim high. Eventually you will become a good welder.No welder can sit at a desk for six months, walk down to the shop and pick up a stinger and make a perfect bead. It takes practice. Think of it like playing scales on a guitar or a golf swing or a stroke of a pool cue. metalmagpie
Reply:Try welding with one hand propping the other,it helped me alot. Also what the other guy said when learning start North to South vs West to East. You'll have time for that stuff later.Last edited by Sparky#1; 08-10-2011 at 02:26 PM.I.B.E.W Electrician and Damn Proud of It !!!! .Virtus Junxit Mors Non Separabit http://www.shrinershospitalsforchildren.org/
Reply:Originally Posted by metalmagpieTo the OP: don't be discouraged by these guys showing off their very good welds. It takes time to train your muscles.
Reply:Ok - with some new found confidence I've started again tonight.  Watched some good videos you guys have sent me and with a lot of good tips from you guys I've started practicing.  Today I only use 7018 in DC+ settings - that's it.  I've also started a note book.Took a couple of nervous passes that looked like my usual crap, then I after some deep breaths I stared focusing more until I finally had that first Aha! moment.  Here are some pics from today.  The biggest improvement came when I rested my elbow on the work surface and jammed the electrode down until it was dragging and got a pretty good bead.   From there, I can see how you can gently lift up on the electrode to 'float' it just above the surface and this is where the practice starts.  This was done with a lower setting - about 90A;   Not sure why the slag was so bubbly, but the metal underneath was pretty good:Here is the first Aha moment at 115A :Same one cleaned off:Starting to run some beads 'free hand' - I can see that I need a lot of practice.  The difficult part is still seeing/noticing where I am on the piece - am I going straight or drifting.  I still can't see too much in terms of reference points as I drag.  If I can see something besides where I drag my bead will be straighter - couldn't always see something:Now, I at least feel like I know what to look for.  I've discovered how that should feel and now need a lot of practice. Another challenge - I've burned thorugh some square tube and was unable to repair the hole.  Once I made a hole, reparing it resulted in a much bigger hole.  What's the technique to fix the hole in the material?Last edited by Carbide; 08-11-2011 at 01:11 AM.
Reply:Theres some improvement there man!! Congrads!!It looks like you're still going too fast tho, you want nice curved ((((((((((((((((((((((( ripples, and going too fast can cause pointed <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< ripples... If you're running at 115 amps, thats like a 3/32" electrode, right? Just keep practicing man, and there are many ways to fix a burnt through hole... If it doesnt need like 100% penetration, you can turn your welder way down from where you'd run a normal bead, and just weld' er' solid, or if you want more penetration, then use some thinner 6010/1 and weld it up. Its not hard, with a little practice, Im sure you can do it. Happy Welding [Account Abandoned 8/8/16 Please Do Not Attempt Contact Or Expect A Reply]. See you on YouTube! -ChuckE2009
Reply:Hell yeah man, lookin alot better now!3/32" rod? 115amps is a little hot. You probably got the  <<<<<<'s from traveling quickly to make up for too hot. Try closer to 90/95amps and see if you have better luck. If you're dragging it travel slightly slower than the rod consumes itself and watch the puddle wick out and maintain that puddle width based on your travel speed.Last edited by MikeGyver; 08-11-2011 at 02:38 AM.Welding/Fab Pics: www.UtahWeld.com
Reply:Originally Posted by MikeGyverHell yeah man, lookin alot better now!3/32" rod? 115amps is a little hot. You probably got the  <<<<<<'s from traveling quickly to make up for too hot. Try closer to 90/95amps and see if you have better luck. If you're dragging it travel slightly slower than the rod consumes itself and watch the puddle wick out and maintain that puddle width based on your travel speed.
Reply:Looking much better, keep up the practise.I'd normally fill holes on thin material by welding for a couple of seconds at a time (no real need to reduce the amps), breaking the arc between welds for just long enough to let the metal cool slightly, maybe a second or so. Almost like welding a series of tacks, but it's not easy and takes alot of practise in itself.Also, 7018 isn't really the best rod for filling holes, as the rod tends to burn up inside the flux making it hard to restart and the iron powder in the flux can make them a bit too fluid, hence why they 'wet out' nicely on the toes when running a normal bead. Probably better to use a fast freeze rod like a 6013 or 6010/11.Last edited by Baila La Pinza; 08-11-2011 at 12:57 PM.
Reply:Draw a line with soapstone where you want to run your bead. You can see soapstone through the lens with the arc light very well. It will give you a guide to follow. If you are preacticing on a piece of flat plate draw one line, weld on it, then make each additional weld right next to the last, following its edge.
Reply:Originally Posted by walkerDraw a line with soapstone where you want to run your bead. You can see soapstone through the lens with the arc light very well. It will give you a guide to follow. If you are preacticing on a piece of flat plate draw one line, weld on it, then make each additional weld right next to the last, following its edge.
Reply:Scribing a line with a soap stone is very helpful - I can see the line much better with it than without it.  THx
Reply:115a is a good balanced number for 1/8" 7018. You could run a little hotter for flat/overhead but it'll work on 115 and not be too hot for vertical or horizontal.