Striking and maintaining an arc

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Clarke 131e, 6013 electrode 1/16" inch, running at about 90 amps per the gage, metal is pretty rusty, 1/8" at the most thick steel.I know, small 120 volt machine, but it's what I have to work with.  I can get the electrode to spark and managed to a couple of good, stable arcs.  I am doing the best imitation of a scratch start that I can. I am getting very good at sticking the electrode to the work.Hints and tips to getting a good arc beyond practice, practice, practice?
Reply:Cleaner material will help as well. I'm sure other members will add more. My first time I made porcupine artwork as well haha.-PatSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:With a 120V machine, you should be able to strike and hold an arc with a 1/16" 6013 rod with somewhere around 45-60 amps,depending on the rod mfg..  I don't think some of these 120's are really telling the truth on amps output, hence the higher possible "setting" of 60, which may in reality be lower than indicated.  I use one and 45-50 amps with a 6013 1/16" usually works fine.  Any more, and you just blow the arc away.As mentioned before, a CLEAN metal surface is a must.  Check your surface and your ground, usually a culprit.You probably will find that if you try to use 6011 rods, that they are more difficult to strike and sometimes need a bit more juice than the 6013, which is a easy rod to use (just not as much penetration)
Reply:I cannot seem to get those 1/16" rods to stay lit.  I am using Hobart rods from Tractor Supply.  My practice piece looks like it's got rice krispies on it.  I cleaned the metal up quite a bit with a cup brush on my angle grinder.I am having much better results with the 5/64" rods:  striking and maintaining an arc only takes three or four tries now instead of twenty or thirty.  I am working towards getting my welds to look like pictures of good welds I have found on the Hobart and Miller sites.I am starting to like this little machine.  It seems pretty tolerant.  There is a learning curve to it, like everything in life.
Reply:Use a flap disk on the grinder and do some searching on this site. There is lots of threads on metal prep and how to weld (lots of talk about prep and mill scale etc etc). Welcome, your here, now get up to speed.Miller thunderbolt 250Decastar 135ERecovering tool-o-holic ESAB OAI have been interested or involved in Electrical, Fire Alarm, Auto, Marine, Welding, Electronics ETC to name a just a few. So YES you can own too many tools.
Reply:I cannot, for the life of me, get an arc on a 1/16" rod.  Any time I get an arc started on one it is simply the law of random chance working for, instead of against, me!  I use the most delicate touch I can but simply cannot get them to light and hold.I bought some 3/32" rods today and my ability to strike and maintain an arc and lay down a bead improved pretty quick.  My welds are starting to look more like the pictures of what a good weld is supposed to look like with both  5/64" and 3/32" rods.
Reply:6013 1/16" rods between 30 and 50 amps, I used to use them for exhaust work before I got a mig.www.georgesplasmacuttershop.comPlasma Cutter and Welder Sales and Repairs--Ebay storeTec.Mo. Dealer Consumables for the PT and IPT torch's
Reply:As several have stated, if your surfaces aren't bare, clean metal you will have a problem with striking and maintaining an arc.  Wire brushing won't hack it.  Grind it, flap wheel, abrasive pads, etc.  You mentioned 90 amps with the 1/16" rod...WAY too much juice.Mechanic416 and I use about the same amp range for the little buggers.  I bet you are blowing your arc away.Also, you might have your current too high (blows your arc away), or too low (sticks, can't keep a bead running).  The 1/16" rods are "whippy" and hard to control in a directional sense and the arc length is hard to control since it's such a thin rod.  About the time you strike an arc and try to lay a bead, you will generally either (1) pull a long arc or (2) jamb the rod into your puddle.  The small rods take a lot of practice for a beginner.  To try to get your current set up, try cutting some rods in half.  That way they're a little stiffer and you don't have them whipping around on you.  If you are having better luck with the 5/64" and 3/32" rods, stay with them.  About the only time I use the 1/16" is for tacking.  I haven't even tried thin sheet metal yet; probably won't.I don't recall if it was this forum or another, but one person had a 110V welder and the leads just wouldn't allow him to weld properly.  He just went up to a larger size welding cable and better ground clamp and had no more problems.Some of the more experienced welders may have some input on this:  what is your electrode polarity setup with the Clarke?  Check to see if your are using DCEP, electrode positive, ground negative.  It may weld better with that arrangement.  Those electrodes seem to work better with DCEP.Last edited by shortfuse; 09-24-2012 at 10:04 PM.
Reply:I have the same machine.  It is capable of laying decent welds, dispite being a 100A 120V machine.My best guess is that the 6013 rod is your problem.  I have the same problem.  Back in school our instructor used to call the 6000 series rods "hotrods".They are designed for deep penetration, they are also known for being a pain to weld with.My suggestion would be to switch to 7014 rod, it should be much easier to start and hold an arc without sticking.In school, I can't tell you how many 6013 rods I burned up top to bottom from sticking them to the base metal. Originally Posted by jarheaddocClarke 131e, 6013 electrode 1/16" inch, running at about 90 amps per the gage, metal is pretty rusty, 1/8" at the most thick steel.I know, small 120 volt machine, but it's what I have to work with.  I can get the electrode to spark and managed to a couple of good, stable arcs.  I am doing the best imitation of a scratch start that I can. I am getting very good at sticking the electrode to the work.Hints and tips to getting a good arc beyond practice, practice, practice?
Reply:Clean metal is just as important where you attach you ground as well !!!
Reply:Originally Posted by machineheadI have the same machine.  It is capable of laying decent welds, dispite being a 100A 120V machine.My best guess is that the 6013 rod is your problem.  I have the same problem.  Back in school our instructor used to call the 6000 series rods "hotrods".They are designed for deep penetration, they are also known for being a pain to weld with.My suggestion would be to switch to 7014 rod, it should be much easier to start and hold an arc without sticking.In school, I can't tell you how many 6013 rods I burned up top to bottom from sticking them to the base metal.
Reply:It's all about prep. I get sick of seeing meatheads on BoobTooB byatch about rods and machines when they don't have the brains to clean up the crap first and check the manu. specs on what amps/rod/thickness of work piece. If it's that complicated take up bowling. For some bowling would be a challenge. Bubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:FWIW:I have a 'TA 185' tig/stick welder and an old 'Miller Thunderbolt AC' welder. (with copper wired transformer) I have always had fits getting an arc started with the 185. The Miller was always a LOT easier to strike arcs with. ( I use mig/fluxcore now when not tig)-c-
Reply:I tried those 1/16 6013's a while back back and found them incredibly hard to use.   If you need something small grab some 5/64" 6013, which runs more like it should.  I know Lincoln sells them in 1lb packs at most hardware stores.
Reply:As others have already said, for 6013's, you need clean shiny steel surface for both the weld joint and ground clamp connection. Second, put the ground clamp as close as possible to your weld joint.   Third, try a different brand of electrodes.  I like the Forney's 1/16" 6013's.  http://www.midlandhardware.com/78017...w#.Upl1_n-9KSMLincoln Electric's work great too.http://www.lowes.com/pd_178729-1703-...ductId=1156671Last edited by SuperArc; 11-30-2013 at 12:38 AM.Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller  625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita  Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:Originally Posted by machineheadMy best guess is that the 6013 rod is your problem.  I have the same problem.  Back in school our instructor used to call the 6000 series rods "hotrods".  They are designed for deep penetration, ...
Reply:My bad, thanks for correcting me, its been a while...I am having the same problem as the OP, what would you say is the "easiest" rod to weld  mild steel with for a hobbyist, consideringeasy to strike an arc (not sticking), and nice puddle to manage/good looking welds?Considering your tagline, I am assuming the cheapo welder is not the problem, but I do remember having less problems with sticking on a machine with more than 100 amps max  output.  I am guessing that the rating is a bit overstated on these Clarke machines, and that part of the sticking may be that it is a bit under-powered to reliably start an arc on a 1/8 6013 or other electrode needing around 80-100 amps.  Does the initial arc-starting require a spike in current?Thanks for any suggestions. Originally Posted by MoonshineMetalsTotally incorrect.  6013's on the contrary are designed for SHALLOW and/or MINIMAL penetration.  6010/6011's are the "deep" penetrating rods.
Reply:Originally Posted by machineheadMy bad, thanks for correcting me, its been a while...I am having the same problem as the OP, what would you say is the "easiest" rod to weld  mild steel with for a hobbyist, consideringeasy to strike an arc (not sticking), and nice puddle to manage/good looking welds?Considering your tagline, I am assuming the cheapo welder is not the problem, but I do remember having less problems with sticking on a machine with more than 100 amps max  output.  I am guessing that the rating is a bit overstated on these Clarke machines, and that part of the sticking may be that it is a bit under-powered to reliably start an arc on a 1/8 6013 or other electrode needing around 80-100 amps.  Does the initial arc-starting require a spike in current?Thanks for any suggestions.
Reply:Originally Posted by machineheadMy bad, thanks for correcting me, its been a while...I am having the same problem as the OP, what would you say is the "easiest" rod to weld  mild steel with for a hobbyist, consideringeasy to strike an arc (not sticking), and nice puddle to manage/good looking welds?Considering your tagline, I am assuming the cheapo welder is not the problem, but I do remember having less problems with sticking on a machine with more than 100 amps max  output.  I am guessing that the rating is a bit overstated on these Clarke machines, and that part of the sticking may be that it is a bit under-powered to reliably start an arc on a 1/8 6013 or other electrode needing around 80-100 amps.  Does the initial arc-starting require a spike in current?Thanks for any suggestions.
Reply:Originally Posted by ANVILMachine head, I personally believe that all of those transformer based machine don't do well on anything larger than 5/64" welding rods.  Stick with those or the next smaller size of 1/16" and you should do okay.  Your welder shouldn't be used for any steel thickness over 1/8". Also, grind away all rust, mill scale, dirt, paint etc... On both the weld joint area AND where you attach the ground clamp.
Reply:Originally Posted by machineheadThanks Dave and Anvil, you guys are right.  1/16" rod works much better.  The machine still is not great.  i had a chance to use a nice welder at work, and it was easy strike and not stick 1/8 7018.  It restored my confidence and has me wanting a new welder!Any opinions on these new batch of imported inverter machines?Thanks.
Reply:I found that I could run 3/32 e6011 rod with the machine set at "100 amps" which is all out for this machine.With this set up, I could actually run some decent welds without much trouble with rod sticking.  If I switch to 3/32 7018, it sticks like crazy when trying to strike an arc.I agree with you Dave, this machine is just too small to do much with.Our 200 amp DC machine at work is a joy to work with.  I will check out the local market for tombstone welders.Thanks.
Reply:If you're too lazy to grind-clean grab some 6011.Pretend you're back in the Jyrenes and that metal is a dress boot !Bubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:Originally Posted by shortfuse You will probably will find that if you try to use 6011 rods, that they are more difficult to strike and sometimes need a bit more juice than the 6013, which is a easy rod to use (just not as much penetration)
Reply:Originally Posted by SquirmyPug6013 is not designed for deep penetration. The 6000 rods you are thinking about are 6010 or 6011, both should be easy to strike an arc with.1. Clean your base metal2. Use fresh and dry rods.3. Find the amperage range that works best for the thickness of the base material.4. If numbers 2 and 3 are good. go back to number ONE.CLEAN YOUR BASE MATERIAL IN THE AREA OF THE JOINT PEOPLE.
Reply:Originally Posted by weldertom1. Clean your base metal2. Use fresh and dry rods.3. Find the amperage range that works best for the thickness of the base material.4. If numbers 2 and 3 are good. go back to number ONE.CLEAN YOUR BASE MATERIAL IN THE AREA OF THE JOINT PEOPLE.
Reply:Originally Posted by RodJAll good advice, but some folks forget to CLEAN THE BASE MATERIAL WHERE YOUR GROUND CLAMP CONNECTS TOO