Advice or suggestions on my thoughts for a new welder

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Hi AllI'm new to the forum so want to say hi and thank you to everyone for what I've learned over the past couple of weeks lurking and reading posts from the past few years - quite a body of knowledge in here I am going to learn to weld, its something I've wanted to do for a while and am now in a position to do it.  I will be a hobby welder only, mostly for supporting other hobbies - woodworking, electronics and general "maker" type stuff (robotics, jigs etc).  I am hoping to get your input on what I am thinking to see if I am making any big mistakes, missed something significant or if there is a better approach.  So my thoughts are:I plan on learning TIG first - I will be working in my garage 95% of time so clean and quiet is important.  I plan on doing a wide range of metals, probably aluminum, stainless and other nonferrous metals once I learn enough to start incorporating them into some furniture designs.  Neat welds are important, and I will mostly be working with new stock so the material will be mostly clean.  I have pretty good hand/eye type skills from woodworking and electronics, and am used to working close and under a hood with fine movements from soldering electronics, working with a watchmakers lathe and some other stuff.  I think TIG is the right process for me, I know its the hardest to learn but where I am in no time rush and am something of an OCD perfectionist type I think I will be okay.  I won't be welding anything that is structural, critical or could hurt someone or something (if I need that I'll hire a pro).For a new machine - I think a new inverter machines is my best option due to size/power requirements.  I will need to move it around, and can give it a dedicated 50a 230.  I prefer a new machine - I don't know enough to evaluate a used machine, and really don't know anyone I can bribe with beer that does   I prefer quality tools, US or European - most of my woodworking tools are either US made, have a US motor, or are at least Jet/Delta level.  I am thinking a 200-250A AC/DC inverter to handle up to 1/4in, and probably air-cooled to start. The machines I'm considering are:HTP 221Pros: Seems like a good machine, I think its sourced from Italy.  Have only read good things about the machine, and very good things about the company.  Good warrenty.  Good functionality, very good price (2500ish) complete.  Decent power and duty cycle (220a/20% but 145a/100%)Cons: No local service, but it sounds like mfr service is good and without "hidden" shipping type costs.  Not as big of a deal for me as sending the welder for service for a couple weeks will not hurt my pocketbook.  Also no machines in stock until Feb or March (and I swear waiting for a tool to arrive causes me physical pain *grin*).Miller Dynasty 200dxPros: Miller service, Lots of fucntionality, local service, high resale value, US machineCons: Pretty low duty cycle (200a/20% and 120a/100%), almost $1500 more than the HTPESAB Heliarc 281iPros: ESAB seems to be a good company though not at Millers level, excellent power and duty cycle (280a/50% and 250a/100%), good warranty, local service, 100day sat. guarentee.  Good functionality, though less than Dynasty.Cons: Resale not as good as Miller, Cost around $4500 online but lots of extra power.  Not a lot of information/reviews on the machine that I can find.Miller Dynasty 280dxPros: All of the pros of the 200dx but more.  Excellent low end performanceCons: Duty cycle (280/25% and 200/100%) not as good as ESAB but probably good enough for my needs.  PRICE - looking at north of 5k with foot contractors kit, possibly shave a few $$ buying parts instead of kit but still above $5k.  New product that had LOTS of delays getting to market - very few reviews.I also considered the ESAB CaddyTig 2200i AC/DC TA 34 but it looked very similar to the HTP but for about $1000 more.  The Lincoln Invertec V205 had good duty cycle, but expensive and less features than Dynasty.  Thermal Arc 186 - less expensive, Chinese machine but with strong established company behind it and local support - but thought I would outgrow it.  The rest Everlast/Longevity/AHP I looked at and read a lot but I'm concerned about quality/reliability and support more than $.  It seemed that the models and specs change frequently, reliability and service are hit or miss, and the pictures I found of the internals didn't inspire confidence.  I think that the cost of shipping for warranty service could also chew into any upfront savings.  The machines may be good for someone on a super tight budget, but I'm going to stay away from them.As far as where to purchase I've been making rounds of the local LWS and still have a couple more to visit tomorrow.  Two have been very competitive on Miller pricing, and spent some time with me but none of the ones I've visited really knew much about the various TIG options from any company - If I gave them the part # they gave me good prices, but the only advice I got so far is "buy Miller its the best" - which may actually be correct, but I got the sense that it was general and not product specific advice.  If I don't find a LWS that I feel I can lean on for knowledge as well as support, I will call a couple online WS to see how I feel about them.  I may end up splitting what I buy, machine online, other materials/accessories local so that I at least have some relationship with a local shop for gas and the like.  There is a local repair service company that is Miller, Lincoln, TA and ESAB authorized (I will probably verify with Mfr to be sure) - but they don't sell equipment/supplies except for a few craigslist used items.So - Sorry for the long post, but if any of you have any comments/suggestions or see something I got wrong or missed I would the thankful your input.Thanks!Scott
Reply:If the "repair center" aspect concerns you, you're looking at the wrong machine.Bubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:Sounds like you did your research.  I highly recommend the Miller Dynasty series. The other machines are made in a communist country that will one day invade and kill us, don't give them your $$.  Even the machine from Italy is likely made in China for the Italian company to sell as made in Italy.  Support your local welding supply. They will give you good deals on consumables, and take care of you for any warranty issues.  Go with the Dynasty 200DX, the 280DX is nice, but it has not been out long enough to go through its sea trials so to speak (it may still have some bugs to be worked out).  GarLincoln Electric, Power MIG 256Hypertherm Powermax 45 Miller Dynasty 280DXSmith O/A torchGenesis of a welding table
Reply:Are you wanting to do 1/4" aluminum?  If so forget about any machine with less than about 300A. You'll need that much with at least 30% duty cycle to do productive work on 1/4" aluminum.That said, I have the HTP Invertig221 with dual voltage and water cooler.  It's a very nice machine.Last edited by Oscar; 12-30-2013 at 03:24 AM. 1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig! HTP Invertig 400HTP Invertig 221HTP ProPulse 300HTP ProPulse 200 x2HTP ProPulse 220MTSHTP Inverarc 200TLP HTP Microcut 875SC
Reply:If you can afford one of these machines without worrying about the expense by all means buy one.  Miller gets a lot of support here for tig machines, but there is a lot of excellent tig welds done with Lincoln machines and others as well.  Usually the biggest limitation is the skill and technique of the welder, not the machine.  If you do not need to tig weld aluminum, a multiprocess welder would allow you to weld stick, mig, and dc tig as well as mig on aluminum using a spoolgun.If you have never welded before, I'd recommend taking a welding course at a community college first.  Get some experience using oxyacetylene welding and cutting, plasma cutting, stick welding, mig welding and ultimately tig welding.  You will gain experience and skills which will help you no matter what you end up doing.  You will get to try out welders from different manufacturers and different processes.  Also you will hopefully not learn bad habits that you will need to unlearn later, instead hopefully you will be starting out on the right foot and your progress will be much faster.  Nice choice to have to make, at least you won't need to upgrade in the future."The reason we are here is that we are not all there"SA 200Idealarc TM 300 300MM 200MM 25130a SpoolgunPrecision Tig 375Invertec V350 ProSC-32 CS 12 Wire FeederOxweld/Purox O/AArcAirHypertherm Powermax 85LN25
Reply:I vote for the ESAB 281i ,   its a whole lot of machine for about 25% less than a miller and better duty cycles.   Oscar is off his rocker as you can do 1/4" aluminum with any of those machines but the more amps you can get, the better.    I want the ESAB personally.   you have their 100 day no questions asked return policy too if you don't like it.  I own a couple ESAB machines and love them..  Miller and lincoln are great but you pay a premium for the color of the machine...  consider a water cooler too if you plan on doing a lot of 150 amps or higher work.  air cooled torches get hot really fast with higher amps... you can even build a cooler as one of your projects...Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:You sound like a perfectionist and someone who values good tools.  I personally love TA, but I'm still not sure about the 186.  If you can find a used TA300 like I did you'd be in business.  Jap made and durable.  The only reason I sold my Dynasty 200 was that a TA300 fell into my lap and I couldn't resist the deal and extra amps. If you're going new, I'd 100% go Dynasty 200 DX and piece together yourself.  You can get a lot of help here. I just sold a full air cooled contractor kit with an SSC pedal, case and reg for $300.  It was all you would have needed to add to a bare machine.  If you post a wanted add in the buy and sell section, a lot of people will probably help you out with great prices on stuff they have lying around.  If you ever get really serious and want more machine, you can probably get 80-85% of your money back at resale, especially if you keep the machine clean.As for the amps, I'm a garage hobby guy and can tell you that I rarely use my machine at more than 200 amps.  Remember that inverters give you a little more amps at the same output as older tranny machines did.  IM READY TO GET FLAMED FOR THIS STATEMENT, but with all I've read and experienced its true.  You get more AC balance capabilities and therefore can turn the EN portion of the wave way up.  More heat gets Ito the part.  With a little preheat, you can easily do small 1/4" Aluminum with a Dynasty200.  Any large jobs, I'd personally want to switch to mig with a Spoolgun anyway so the project could be finished in this century.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:The old TA stuff was really good,  the new, made in China stuff I am not to sure about.  the TA186 is practically identical to the Longevity 200ex down to the identical PCB part numbers and layout built in same factory. I think the Longevity ones are the rejects that dont pass the QC for TA...    The 280 Dynasty just came out.  its a hot ticket for sure.  Great resale value.   even more so than the 200 if you ever decide to get out of weldingTiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:If you have the money, I say "GO BBB!"  (Go with the BEST, BIG & BLUE!). Miller.Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller  625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita  Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:Depending on your choice go local and get a package deal. Machine, tanks, and accessories add up quick. The machine maybe a few bucks more but you are gonna need gas too. Sometimes a tank can be a real issue . Post your location, someone here maybe able to point you to a local supplier.   I'm a MILLER guy so as far as a machine goes , BLUE is a no brainer.   I know the NEW 210 syncro has good reviews. That may not be enough for you. The  aluminum guys here will give more input.
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpaw  the TA186 is practically identical to the Longevity 200ex down to the identical PCB part numbers and layout built in same factory. I think the Longevity ones are the rejects that dont pass the QC for TA...
Reply:@ sblanchette - Go BLUE.  The Dynasty 200DX will serve all of your AC and DC needs for a long time.  Think customer service when you are investing $$ for precision welding, cutting, and fabrication equipment.  The dudes in Blue are awesome for technical consult and assistance with your machine.  It's not a sprint, it's a marathon......"Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Originally Posted by FernTJInteresting, the TA186 and Longevity 200ex have different pedal pin outs, different setting ranges, different face plate configuration, different case dimensions, different weight, etc. and yet they are the identical machines?
Reply:Originally Posted by soutthpawI vote for the ESAB 281i ,   its a whole lot of machine for about 25% less than a miller and better duty cycles.   Oscar is off his rocker as you can do 1/4" aluminum with any of those machines but the more amps you can get, the better.    I want the ESAB personally.   you have their 100 day no questions asked return policy too if you don't like it.  I own a couple ESAB machines and love them..  Miller and lincoln are great but you pay a premium for the color of the machine...  consider a water cooler too if you plan on doing a lot of 150 amps or higher work.  air cooled torches get hot really fast with higher amps... you can even build a cooler as one of your projects...
Reply:As far as money goes, I feel the HTP221 with a watercooler will do what you need... I have never heard anything bad about that company or any of its products, period..If money is no object, the Dynasty 280... Something else you might consider, if your not in a big rush to purchase. Victor/Thermal Arc is going to release their new branded Tweco Arcmaster lineup fairly soon, they are suppose to have 220 and 300amp ac/dc machines in the lineup.tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:Gotta love the sales dood who knows nothing about the other machines but still states the "Miller is the best"There is absolutely nothing wrong with ESABEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Originally Posted by OscarLol...I may be off my rocker but we all know how these stories play out---everyone wants to do thick aluminum to repair cylinder heads, etc.  better to error on the side of caution especially if they want to do 1/4"+ aluminum all day long
Reply:Scott,Excellent brand choices all around.  It's a tough call.  For home/hobby, I'd probably go with the TA 186.  If that didn't do it, then maybe an ESAB 281i or a Dynasty 350. Get your feet wet or drown, that sort of thing."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:I will  add my 2 cents worth to the (mostly) good advice here since I am also in the market for a similar machine. My old Thermal Arc TIG is on its last legs and I have done a bit of research in my quest to replace it.I am not that impressed by Victor/Tweco/Thermal/Whatever's current line-up. They are all made in China now and they mostly look cheaply made to me. That said, they are a major company that supports their products much better than the fly-by-night importers of Chinese machines. The new Arcmasters bear watching but I would be cautious.ESAB is one of the oldest welding companies in the world and have a good reputation. The Heliarc and Caddy TIG machines are OK but not at the top of my list. They are expensive for the features they offer and are both 230V only.The HTP seems like a very nice machine and the dual-voltage version is one of my top contenders. The lack of a nation-wide service network is a valid concern but the company's support seems good. Less bells and whistles than the Dynasty 200 but 10% more power for about $400 less than the Dynasty makes it a tempting choice.I generally agree that Miller is the top brand for TIG welders, and they are priced accordingly. The Dynasty 280 is another of my top contenders. The Dynasty 200 seems overpriced and under-powered. 20% duty cycle @ 200A is barely adequate for any aluminum welding. The 350 is a great machine but too large and heavy for my uses and really a lot happier on 3-phase power which is not available in one of the locations that I work at. The 280 seems like a happy medium for me, and the wireless pedal is a blast to use, but the combo would be a royal pain in the wallet. Needless to say, what's best for me may not be best for you but there it is. Good luck in your search.JohnA few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clamps
Reply:"Buy Miller it's the best"? who told you this Sblanchette?Lincoln pro core 125 14''chop saw7 inch grinder,2-4.5 inch grinders,electric die grinder.Half inch drillAnd alot of hand tools
Reply:John, the Dynasty 350 works just fine on single phase power. You get all of the power from the machine- your duty cycle does change on 3-phase I've been to Kevin's shop- single phasehttp://www.millerwelds.com/resources...t=fabricationsEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Originally Posted by flux core joe"buy miller it's the best"? Who told you this sblanchette?
Reply:sblanchette and silicon-based,You guys will not be disappointed if you decide on the dynasty 280 dx.  It is an awesome machine.  I've had mine for little over a week and haven't stopped playing with it.The arc stability on AC is amazing. It is expensive, but I think it is well worth it.  The remote control foot pedal is just as smooth as my SSC pedal.
Reply:Theirs to many Miller salesmen running around to be honest I think you should buy a machine based on what you need not what the local salesmen says but yes miller is good but not my favorite brand.By the way I recommend a Lincoln Precision Tig 225 its a simple machine great for a new welder.Last edited by flux core joe; 12-30-2013 at 09:55 PM.Lincoln pro core 125 14''chop saw7 inch grinder,2-4.5 inch grinders,electric die grinder.Half inch drillAnd alot of hand tools
Reply:It is the same with GM, Ford, and Dodge trucks. Everybody knows GM is better !  Same for MILLER !Hey all - Thanks for all of the input and advice, very much appreciated.  I went out and visited a few more of the LWS in the Orlando area today, I think I pretty much hit most of them.  The last one I went to was really great (Compressed Gas Solutions), they spent quite a bit of time with me, walked me through the options and also the other items I would need.  This was the first shop I went to where the guy helping me did a lot of TIG welding on the side, knew about all of the machines and their capabilities whether they carried them or not and was very straight forward.  Actually convinced me that I needed to buy far less than I would have left alone, telling me to stick with one tungsten, cup size and rod diameter until I get the hang of that, so I don't confuse myself playing with too many variables.  Only then think about other options.  Best of all he made a few calls and is able to get me a ESAB 281i air-cooled ready to weld that is a factory demo that had spent a couple weeks at Disney and one week at another shop for just about $3,000 - he went to pick it up for me from the second demo shop who really wanted a water cooled unit to try.  Only problem was once he got it back and checked it out it looks like the head on the torch was broken - so they are getting me a replacement torch and have the machine sitting in a corner waiting for me.  Full warrentee and 100day through ESAB. They wanted to sell it before the end of the year so my timing was spot on.  I was really impressed, two of the guys at the shop spent about 30mins trying to figure out how to piece together a replacement or loaner torch so I could play over the holiday - but in the end they thought I would be better off waiting for a factory replacement early next week (possibly sooner, but they said they were having lots of issues with getting shipments on time so didn't want to over commit).  So it looks like I'll end up about 500 more then the HTP, 1k less than the 200dx and more than 2k less than the 280dx - which helps big time with the wife approval factor.To the folks that recommended using a LWS - HUGE thank you! - Not only did I find the machine for me at what I think is a really good price from someone with great service, but they also pointed me to a local metal supply that sells usable drops to walk-ins - so I spent time there picking up a bunch of practice material. Now I'll spend the holiday running a new 50a circuit, making a big a** extension cord and cleaning/cutting up scrap so I'll be already to go when the machine is.Thanks again - and hope you all have a fantastic New Year!Scott
Reply:That's a great end to the story.  Please let us know how you like the ESAB 281.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Sounds like you found a helpful supplier. Did they give you a fair price on gas cylinders ?  Size ? Tank and gas fills vary by supplier.
Reply:He said about $200 for the 125CF tank and $20 to fill - Since I ordered a couple of clamps for a welding table from Miller with their gas rebate special, the 1st one is free
Reply:Originally Posted by GarSounds like you did your research.  I highly recommend the Miller Dynasty series. The other machines are made in a communist country that will one day invade and kill us, don't give them your $$.  Even the machine from Italy is likely made in China for the Italian company to sell as made in Italy.  Support your local welding supply. They will give you good deals on consumables, and take care of you for any warranty issues.  Go with the Dynasty 200DX, the 280DX is nice, but it has not been out long enough to go through its sea trials so to speak (it may still have some bugs to be worked out).  Gar
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleYour miller has china parts in it.
Reply:There are OTHER reason than quality for buying American made products.If you are for the enslavement of the Chinese people, keep giving their government your money.GarLincoln Electric, Power MIG 256Hypertherm Powermax 45 Miller Dynasty 280DXSmith O/A torchGenesis of a welding table