porch rail question??

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I want to try my hand at building some porch rails for the Mrs gramdmas house. It's about 8' between porch post. What is the range of thickness best suited for this? Also I was thinking on 36"-38" tall to give a 40"-42",finished height. Iwas thinking on buying either a 125 or 140 wire/mig to use, mostly because I want a 110v machine  to have for thin stuff. Any thoughts and advice greatly appreciated.Side note to those that helped with the storm shelter project. That is on hold right now as we will be staying with the grandmother 3-5 nights a week to help care for her. This the reason for the 110 machine, no practical way of getting 220 in her house.
Reply:Hi TomH.If you are spanning 8' I would use a foot of some sorts for support.  Undoubtedly, someone will sit or climb on them.  In the pic attached you can see a "foot".  The top and bottom runners are 1x1x1/8 tube.  You could use some 1" channel on the bottom if you wanted.  It is a little cheaper.  I use my 110v machine on railing all the time.  Dont forget the pics! Attached ImagesECAVE Still learnin'Lincoln AC225Lincoln 135SPHF ChopsawVictor O/ANumerous other items
Reply:I like the foot idea! How about the pickets? Are those 1/2", and what thickness? Also, I was wondering do use gas or flux shield? I feel like a kid asking a hundred questions, but I have no clue.
Reply:Please note: check with local building inspector regarding the spacing of the bars and bottome rail. IIRC it used to be that you had to space them so a 4" dia  ball could not pass through (think small child  getting trapped)  We used to use a c-channel for the bottom and top rail and cap it with a manufactured steel rail cap....all available from King Architectural metals and you can see the diffferent profiles available as well as the feet and returns etc. "Anybody can talk $h!t behind a monitor, I let the quality of my work speak for itself"Lincoln Square Wave 255 and 355 Tig Lincoln 255 Power-Mig w/ spool gun Koike 5 x 10 CNC plasma Hyd-Mech DM-10 bandsaw Ineco QB-76 NC tube bender
Reply:Coupebuilder is exactly right.  Check your local building codes.  Those are 1/2" solid pickets.  They are on 4" centers.  Those rails are stick welded with 1/8" 6013, but I use fluxcore also.These rails are an exact match to some other rails on another deck on this house.ECAVE Still learnin'Lincoln AC225Lincoln 135SPHF ChopsawVictor O/ANumerous other items
Reply:Thanks all. I will double check spacing. All my decks I build use 3.5" spacing, but that's because I can hold a 2x4 between them and not measure out each one. Thanks for supplier information I haven't found a place to look at profiles yet. My local supplier has about anything I ask for but nothing to really help me choose.
Reply:King metals website is not responding very well right now.It is a very good resource though.  Check it out.ECAVE Still learnin'Lincoln AC225Lincoln 135SPHF ChopsawVictor O/ANumerous other items
Reply:As far as the machine, a 110v only machine will be very limiting. Under real world conditions you'll be limited to 1/8" and less with one. A better choice would be to look at one of the 110v/220v machines like Hobart's HH210MVP, Millers MM211 or Lincolns 180 dual voltage machine. Right now you can use it on 110v power, but later run it on 220v power to do thicker materials. In the long run you'll save over buying 2 machines.On a budget, I'd look hard at the Hobart. For the money, it's probably the best all around "hobby"  mig machine out there right now..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:DSW, ideally I would love to get a dual voltage machine. Financially not looking to promising.only used miller I found was the same price I was quoted at lws($1059)And I haven't seen any hobarts used yet, but I keep looking. Off topic, while I don't argue the general census that 110's only good to 1/8", why do the manufacturers advertise 1/4" or better on their machines?
Reply:Originally Posted by TomHThanks all. I will double check spacing. All my decks I build use 3.5" spacing, but that's because I can hold a 2x4 between them and not measure out each one. Thanks for supplier information I haven't found a place to look at profiles yet. My local supplier has about anything I ask for but nothing to really help me choose.
Reply:When you say perlins do you mean pickets?  I will use what ever is cheaper but most of the time they ar close in price.  Some folks say use solid because the tube will hold moisture and eventually rust through.14ga would work ok I believe.  Maybe some others will chime in...ECAVE Still learnin'Lincoln AC225Lincoln 135SPHF ChopsawVictor O/ANumerous other items
Reply:Originally Posted by ECAVEWhen you say perlins do you mean pickets?  I will use what ever is cheaper but most of the time they ar close in price.  Some folks say use solid because the tube will hold moisture and eventually rust through.14ga would work ok I believe.  Maybe some others will chime in...
Reply:I usually use 16 ga. for pickets but I like to use 5/8" or 3/4" instead of 1/2. I usally use 1 1/4 or 1 1/2" for the posts unless another look is desired.I space the bottom rail 3 1/2" above the floor to keep spacing within code but also so I can put two 2x4's under it to help hold it for installation.The foot that was mentioned isn't a foot but a shoe. There is a plate on the bottom of the post to put anchors in and the shoe fits over the plate to hide it. Research my posts, I have a how to and pictures on using them.
Reply:for balusters, I use 1/2" 16g tubing  about 96% of the time.  Many folk prefer solid material because it is easier to weld.  Never had any issues with rusting from inside to outside, unless the balusters are not weld solid welded. Then they might fill with water and sometimes freeze/ burst.  Could be regional issues causing internal rust.   Will you have/maintain the proper amperage to run a 110 volt machine?
Reply:Originally Posted by tapwelderfor balusters, I use 1/2" 16g tubing  about 96% of the time.  Many folk prefer solid material because it is easier to weld.  Never had any issues with rusting from inside to outside, unless the balusters are not weld solid welded. Then they might fill with water and sometimes freeze/ burst.  Could be regional issues causing internal rust.   Will you have/maintain the proper amperage to run a 110 volt machine?
Reply:Ecave, awesome picture! It was definately worth a "thousand words."I agree with DSW about buying a mig  that has multi voltage options.  If at all possible and you can afford that option, then do it. If not, there is always plan B for what you want to do. I started out solely with a 120 mig welder (read: my plan-B).  I specifically used it to make numerous gates and fences on my property.  Very similar to what ECAVE posted in his picture.   A "good" 120 volt model is perfectly suited for the task you want to tackle.   I will say, you really should stick with the 135/140 model class welders from any of the "big-3" (...and I'm not talkn Ford, Chevy or Dodge).  I'm talking Miller/Hobart/Lincoln.  "Hobart" being Miller's "light beer" (aka: "Miller-Lite") of welding models.A few things which you might want to consider:  if you do use a 110/120 volt model, you really should strive to use at LEAST a 20A circuit to run that machine.  Even an adapter plug for a 30A "RV" outlet would be premium.  On the highest settings, chances are you'll just trip a standard 15A breaker while using those machines.  Check the circuit itself to see how many amps your outlet produces for your machine.About the 1/4" steel. My "140C" model Lincoln can weld that thickness no problem when I'm on a 30A "RV" breaker and stay within its duty cycle limitations.  Am I pushing the welder? You bet I am, but it can handle it on a light duty occasion.  I also realize that not everybody has a 30A or even a 240 volt outlet at their home.  So again, try to use at LEAST the more common 20A 120v circuit.  My disclaimer for 1/4" steel and a 120v welder is that I'm not using it on 1/4" "critical" or really strong structural welds where heavy weight, human life or limb is of a concern.  As any experienced and truely "trained" welder would probably tell you the sameJ regarding  safety and a 120v welder's limitation are concerned.  However, for a light to medium gate as suggested in the original post, you'd be fine with those little machines.For welding a fence as you asked, I believe that chances are you won't be welding any square tube that is thicker than 1/8-to-3/16".  Albeit, the base plates you use for the end posts into the concrete might be up to 1/4"  at the most, but the good high end model 120v machines can handle that job no problem.  I see welding at the MOST a 1/8" thick walled square tube  to a 1/4" base should not be an issue, provided the welder himself know a little on what he/she is doing.  IIRC, Lincoln publishes that their 140 series machine can weld 1/4" plate with Flux Core wire.  I prefer solid and shielding gas to have better cosmetic looking welds.  However, the FCAW proceedure does produce slightly "better" penetration on thicker steel if that's at all a concern for you.  Again, for welding small porch railings as you suggested shouldn't be an issue in the least with solid or flux core wire.Just my opinion, of many others out there.Last edited by SuperArc; 05-16-2012 at 04:54 PM.Reason: SpellingLincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller  625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita  Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:Well, did some investigating in the breaker box, and I have no idea what they did in there. But it does appear I have a couple options to get my 20 amps. Anyone ever hear of sharing a 220 hot water heater with a 110 washer/dryer outlet?? It's a 50 amp circuit.
Reply:Jack did a good write up about his front fence project using a 120v machinehttp://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...ighlight=fenceEd Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Bob, I'm not sure how to do a search of your post for fences. I pulled up a search of your post and it gave me a list of 6??, didn't know how to narrow it down from there.Thanks for the link broccoli. Lots of good pics.
Reply:Click on His namePublic profileThen you can either look at all his posts or Threads that he has startedhttp://weldingweb.com/search.php?searchid=4927991Ed Conleyhttp://www.screamingbroccoli.com/MM252MM211 (Sold)Passport Plus & Spool gunLincoln SP135 Plus- (Gone to a good home)Klutch 120v Plasma cutterSO 2020 benderBeer in the fridge
Reply:Originally Posted by Anderson VanessaThis is good that you dream for the house of your grandfather but in reality you can't do this of your own without any professional training.You can install these railing on main wall but you can't construct it.It will harm you and make you in loss of money.
Reply:Here you go.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=38543
Reply:Very nice work Bob! Thank you for the link.