Sorta Stupid

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It occured to me, after I got all this done, that it was plain ol' stupid There is absolutely no reason for a full penetration weld on something like this   Probably could have gotten by with a nice 3 pass built up bead all the way around the thing   But I'd have egg on my face if it fell off the back of the truck.I mean, look at it..........you don't need anything stronger than the plate it's attached to.....1/2" plate, the plate is the limiter, it can only be as strong as the plate.Whole back end of the truck will fall off before this thing does.  GEEZAnyhow, might as well show the process"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Very steep angle bevel, probably around 60 degrees or so.  Then the first pass.  1/8 7018AC at 150amps.  Small rod to get into the root of the bevel.Second, and all the rest of the passes were done with 5/32 7018 at 200amps.Then a fina wrap around pass on the side to tie it all togetherAnd more to follow, the problem with these kind of welds"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:What I don't like about this kind of joint is the divets divit divet (ah wtf  ) at the end of the pass.  I haven't found a good way to prevent it.Where you start, the weld is relatively cold, and the wrap around nicely fills any voids.But on the end which is undercut, it's a struggle to fill the undercut with the wraparound.Simply too much void to fill with the material.  The undercut is around maybe 1/16" but it's annoying."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:A small word about 5/32..............  Don't run it like it's the mega filler on the planet.  Nice tight hot beads.  The whole reason you use it is to get some heat into the thick material.I know people can wash in a wide bead, but I think it's generally on a cap, not the build up process."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I wouldn't worry about the undercut to much.     you already welded the hell out of it.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:You plan on towing the space shuttle to the launch pad?
Reply:That's a great how-to on building something bulletproof. If you're towing with it, better to build it like that than "that's good enough", just MHO.I like!Hobart EZ-Tig newbie.
Reply:Cool samm! I still can't believe you posted up a "trailer hitch" build!!!Did/do you run stringer beads or a little weave?"Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:At two of the shops I worked for we weld from the outside to the inside so as to not to have a divit, or undercut at the end of a weld.  I posted something to that effect years ago and was called out on it, but it is the rule for two of the shops I have worked for.  Another was carry a bead atleast an inch from the edge and then weld up to the inch so you are always stopping in the meat of the metal and not on an edge where you are likely to have undercut and leave a divit.  I may have some pictures, but you get the drift.  "Always start on an edge never stop on one." was the rule of thumb.  there is nothing like finishing up a nice weld and have the joint fall out due to too much heat or end up dabbing the last bit of a weld trying to fix undercut and all due to the edge not having enough metal left to dissipate the heat.
Reply:Originally Posted by Scott YoungAt two of the shops I worked for we weld from the outside to the inside so as to not to have a divit, or undercut at the end of a weld.  I posted something to that effect years ago and was called out on it, but it is the rule for two of the shops I have worked for.  Another was carry a bead atleast an inch from the edge and then weld up to the inch so you are always stopping in the meat of the metal and not on an edge where you are likely to have undercut and leave a divit.  I may have some pictures, but you get the drift.  "Always start on an edge never stop on one." was the rule of thumb.  there is nothing like finishing up a nice weld and have the joint fall out due to too much heat or end up dabbing the last bit of a weld trying to fix undercut and all due to the edge not having enough metal left to dissipate the heat.
Reply:This is about the thickest stuff I ever work with, and it's been an eye opener"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Lemme tell you Scott, this is what is sorta pizzing me off about the site.I put up what I feel is sorta interesting, and most people don't chime in.  Everyone wants a slap on the back WELL DONE sorta thing.  This ought to be about a good discussion.  I want feedback, I'm not someone who does this for a living (sorta).A sounding board is a good thing, it lets you know if what you're thinking is what someone else is thinking.And yeah, I'm doing a trailer hitch (see other thread), and it's sorta funny.  The dreaded trailer thread   A death trap rolling down the nation's highways "Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I will be soon on a highway in your neck of the woods"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:And nobody asked whether the restricted welding did any good.  Did it help to weld the thing to another piece of metal to restrict distortion.Well, I thought it would be fun to see, and as we all know, it didn't help.  Soon as the welds were cut it went SPROIIIIIIIING!!!!!!!!!!  No point in putting anything up here unless it's a lesson.  Either for yourself, or for someone else.You simply can't avoid distortion in most cases.  My favorite topic."Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:I'm on a rant cause K'kins is safely tucked in bed, and she can't reach me with her kick in the azz"Any day above ground is a good day"http://www.farmersamm.com/
Reply:Sambo...she is a saint!!! Killer and I are headed out yet again on vacation to the Oregon coast for a couple weeks. Don't make me have to use the speed-dial to Kelley while I'm out soaking up the sun. Still say the hitch is your answer to feelings of inadequacy...heheheharharhar..sigh.Last edited by WyoRoy; 05-17-2012 at 06:59 AM.Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:post 2 first pic  izzat a onesided or twosided bevel
Reply:Speaking just for me, I read all your threads, I learn a lot about how to approach a problem and have a successful outcome.  I have nothing to add but admiration since my skill level is way lower.Lincoln Power MIG 215Lincoln WeldPak 3200HDLincon ProCut 25Lincoln WeldanPower 225 AC/DCIf all else fails... buy more tools
Reply:Roy,That's a classic picture! They should use that in the ads.Burt _____________________Miller Syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Miller 375 Plasma Cutter Hobart Handler 12010FtDrillBit.com
Reply:farmersammYour stick welds look like tig welds. Where did you learn to weld, they look great. I too enjoy  and learn from your threads.Dave ReberWadsworth Ohio
Reply:Good job samm welds look greatBacked my CATMA over your CARMA oops clusmy me  What would SATAN do ?? Miller Trailblazer 302 AirPakMiller Digital Elite  Optrel Welding HatArcair K4000Suitcase 12RC / 12 VSHypertherm PM-45Rage 3 sawRusty old Truck
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammLemme tell you Scott, this is what is sorta pizzing me off about the site.I put up what I feel is sorta interesting, and most people don't chime in.  Everyone wants a slap on the back WELL DONE sorta thing.  This ought to be about a good discussion.  I want feedback, I'm not someone who does this for a living (sorta).A sounding board is a good thing, it lets you know if what you're thinking is what someone else is thinking.And yeah, I'm doing a trailer hitch (see other thread), and it's sorta funny.  The dreaded trailer thread   A death trap rolling down the nation's highways
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammIt occured to me, after I got all this done, that it was plain ol' stupid There is absolutely no reason for a full penetration weld on something like this   Probably could have gotten by with a nice 3 pass built up bead all the way around the thing   But I'd have egg on my face if it fell off the back of the truck.I mean, look at it..........you don't need anything stronger than the plate it's attached to.....1/2" plate, the plate is the limiter, it can only be as strong as the plate.Whole back end of the truck will fall off before this thing does.  GEEZAnyhow, might as well show the process
Reply:Some good information here, I learned a bit even though I don't stick weld.  But there can always be little bits and pieces of information to pick up.
Reply:Originally Posted by farmersammLemme tell you Scott, this is what is sorta pizzing me off about the site.I put up what I feel is sorta interesting, and most people don't chime in.  Everyone wants a slap on the back WELL DONE sorta thing.  This ought to be about a good discussion.  I want feedback, I'm not someone who does this for a living (sorta).A sounding board is a good thing, it lets you know if what you're thinking is what someone else is thinking.And yeah, I'm doing a trailer hitch (see other thread), and it's sorta funny.  The dreaded trailer thread   A death trap rolling down the nation's highwaysOriginally Posted by lars66well Samm, I made one comment way back on the spindle work for the one way that was taken the wrong way so I quit commenting on your work.By the way am still interested to know how the one way worked out for you.I dont really expect an answer because I think I made your ignore list also.
Reply:Originally Posted by Stick-manCool samm! I still can't believe you posted up a "trailer hitch" build!!!Did/do you run stringer beads or a little weave?
Reply:Sam, like your posts, we all get "hot" trick is to cool down and come back. As far as the full pen. weld, the strength is there but it puts a lot of heat in to control, long as you can use the finished product its your time, why not? I also like to use a "3 pass" I call it 1 in, 1 under, 1 over. As far as the cold starts i started doing them like the guys who do pipe, they come back later and grind them out or feather , and just weld to them to fill in. Works for me and leaves a nice look. Do you think you could start and inch back on the long run, come outward around the end and then run down the plate on the other side till you are out of rod, that would get rid of that end dimple,"Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DCMillermatic 251   Syncrowave 300   30A spoolgunLincoln MP210Hypertherm 45(2) LN 25(2) Lincoln Weldanpower 225 CV(4) SA200   1 short hood    SA250    SAM 400
Reply:Samm,From a long-term noob, I find your posts interesting...cause its a lot of real world stuff, at least from my perspective.  Keep at it.  This sort of thing is invaluable to us who want to learn... a lot of guys who know more complicated stuff don't take the time to really explain it.  As you learn, we learn.I hear you on watching others weld.  I've watched two other guys TIG, and it makes a world of difference versus reading/being told how to do something.  Its also good to see other peoples' styles so you can pick and choose what works for yourself.
Reply:i use 2" solid bar for all my hitches i fabricate, along with 1" plate for the tounge portion. I fully bevel the solid 2" bar stock on the milling machine and then weld her up with 7018. All the ones you buy at the store are one small quick HORRIBLE mig bead. All i pull is our boat, but its a 50,000$ boat that i dont want leaving my truck! i think its perfectly acceptable to do a full penetration weld.
Reply:What's 4 more rods ?  You had to use them up sooner or later, right ?   That why WE do it instead of buying it. I like these guys with 10,000lb. hitches and they only have a 3500 lb. ball.
Reply:I wouldn't leave all my stops, (craters) near the same  corner as the are the weakest part of the weld. I like to stagger them, or start from the corners and stop toward the middle. Other than that looks good!
Reply:Originally Posted by Pressure_Welderi use 2" solid bar for all my hitches i fabricate, along with 1" plate for the tounge portion. I fully bevel the solid 2" bar stock on the milling machine and then weld her up with 7018. All the ones you buy at the store are one small quick HORRIBLE mig bead. All i pull is our boat, but its a 50,000$ boat that i dont want leaving my truck! i think its perfectly acceptable to do a full penetration weld.
Reply:Great job Sam. Its fun to see yourself do something then say wish had Mack truck to mount this to. Only thing funnier was to weld it to Kawaski mule or Ford Ranger Pick up to pull lawn mower trailer. Least you didn't put gooseneck hitch in Toyota pickup and not Tundra meen little old truck. Then put 2200lb bull in 18 ft trailer head to town. Me and Tx Hwy patrolman still talk about that one. BTW they both lived.that one and only trip. Great welds ,welded pipe and structral and even custom trailers.Glad your out here showing us how its done. .
Reply:Sam, I have learned one hard fact on trailer hitches over the years and that is not to test them with your shins when you walk around the back of the truck. LOL  And I beleive yours will pass the shin test, theres just something about that sick bone under flesh sound when it hits the thick steel. We used to say " going to a shin dig are you? LOL"Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DCMillermatic 251   Syncrowave 300   30A spoolgunLincoln MP210Hypertherm 45(2) LN 25(2) Lincoln Weldanpower 225 CV(4) SA200   1 short hood    SA250    SAM 400
Reply:Originally Posted by kolotSam, I have learned one hard fact on trailer hitches over the years and that is not to test them with your shins when you walk around the back of the truck. LOL  And I beleive yours will pass the shin test, theres just something about that sick bone under flesh sound when it hits the thick steel. We used to say " going to a shin dig are you? LOL
Reply:samm, on a couple implements, I was in a rush so I did a 3 pass weld instead of the usual cjp.  I welded it out with 7024 and had a 1/2 inch fillet wrapped around.  I had more weld metal this way, but it was faster due to not having to bevel the metal and having to worry about the joint alignment as much due to having 1/2 inch land as opposed to the 1/16 land for the cjp.  It was also faster due to the rod choice.  I did exactly what the customer wanted, but in my gut I was wondering if it would hold up to the abuse the way a cjp would.  It has and in spades according to the guy.  one of the implements is a root rake that went behind his D8 and another was a monster unit that resembled a disc harrow, but weighed a couple tons that would slice and dice any and everything including stumps.  everything was 1/2 inch or thicker and I was pressed for time coming in and helping to fit and weld up.  It was one of those jobs that I loved because everything was so easy to weld and fun, but it was one of those jobs that was a head scratcher due to there were several ways it could have been done differently which would have sped the project up and may have saved some money.  Larger jet rods and laying one pass instead of three or flux core could have easily been used.  Almost everything was in position and then assymbled (big plus).  All the implements were built on site and could have been made in a shop and trucked out it would have been quicker having an overhead lift instead of the broken sky jack we were stuck with out in the field.the clear cut was raked, disc'ed, and then leveled with a set of old track laid 4 across in a gang and drug to pulverized everything flat.  then planters would scurry and replant the pines.  It was impressive how fast it went from woods to clear cut to saplings.  The man was wide open from can to can't.  we welded for two straight days and then we were done.  His guys had everything assymbled and was off and running.
Reply:Originally Posted by SandyThere have been a couple where I looked down while clinging to the tail gate to see if I bent the dern thing.
Reply:Originally Posted by k45Help me a bit if you will, asking from a newcomer perspective.   Multiple passes are necessary to do bigger welds (e.g. 2" bar stock to 1" plate).  But (if I am right), one needs not only multiple passes, but a LOT of heat to heat up the steel and make those passes solid, right?   So how much current are you running for something like that?    As I understand it, doing a lot of passes with a 100 amp welder won't make up for the lack of power, right?   One would still end up with cold welds no matter how many passes were made?Ken