Questions about powering a welder

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Im new to the forum and am interested in getting a welder. After some research i ended wanting a TIG machine so that i could work with aluminum and still be able to weld metal. After really looking at the specs of the machine it looks like i cant get a whole lot out of the 110 15amp outlet i have. Soooo...i was thinking about it and was wondering, would i be able to get something like a 10000 watt generator that has a 240 outlet and just plug in the welder into that? IF that wont work what other options do i have to power up a welder? I can't do anything about the outlet or the wiring since i do not own the place.Last edited by superchargedv8; 11-03-2013 at 08:28 PM.
Reply:Yes a welder can be run on a generator.Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:Originally Posted by SquirmyPugYes a welder can be run on a generator.
Reply:I would think you could have a 6-50 outlet installed a lot cheaper than buying a generator. If yoy are getting a generator instead get an AC-DC welder generator and a high frequency box instead.Miller xmt304,  Miller S22 p12, Miier Maxstar SD, Miller 252 w 30A, Miller super32p12, Lincoln Ranger 9, Thermal Arc 181I with spoolgun, Hypertherm 10000 ,Smith torches. Esab 161lts miniarc.
Reply:Originally Posted by superchargedv8would you happen to know what i need to look for when getting a new generator? as in what features it should and should NOT have.
Reply:Ok lets start at the beginning. To do 1/8" alum with tig you need at least 150-180 amps of AC output. This leaves you with two options for an AC/DC tig, old school transformer tigs or the newer inverter tigs.Inverters use the least amount of input power to get you your 180 amp output. Down side is that inverters are significantly more expensive to buy. Miller's Dynasty 200 needs about 18 amps 230v to run at roughly 180 amps output.  To run one off a gen set, you'd need a generator that puts out about  4.5kw continuous, a 6kw genny would be better. A transformer tig is less expensive to buy, but you need a lot more power to run one. My Miller Syncrowave 200 would need almost 50 amps 230v to get the same 180 amps of output.  To get that kind of power you are probably looking at a minimum of a 12kw continuous, preferably a 15 kw generator. However, the Syncrowave will run you about 1/2 what the Dynasty would new. Finding a generator that size will kill any price savings though.Keep in mind when you look at generator ratings that most small generators are rated in surge wattage, not continuous wattage. You need a genny with enough continuous wattage and then some usually to power a welder.As mentioned your best bet is to look at what it costs to simply have an electrician install a 50 amp 230v line to where you need it. With that you can run most AC/Dc tigs at a high enough output to do 1/8" alum, though some of the bigger units like the old Miller 330's would do better on a larger breaker. Those big old Miller can be found dirt cheap if you look a bit. I've seen them in the $450-900 range and a few of the rebadged units even cheaper..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by SquirmyPugFeatures? It needs to make AC power, enough for the welder you want
Reply:The problem is that i do not own the property so changing out the wiring and breaker is not an option. So im just trying to get around the fact that i don't have an outlet i can use so i need something to power up a welder. Initially i was looking at the smaller welders like the diversion 180 but if im gunna have to get a generator to power up a machine id rather just get something a bit bigger or more powerful. The main things ill be using the welder for are to fix some gaps on a mild steel roll cage, probably add some bars, and the big thing is welding aluminum as in a fuel cell or other containers and maybe a bit thicker also; id rather have more machine than i need.
Reply:Roll cage and fuel cell material is usually thin, like DSW said 150-180 amp machine. For duty cycle I would look at a 200amp inverter machine (Miller Dynasty or similar). I would get minimum 6,000 watt generator so that you can have lights and other things working while welding. You will want a foot pedal for the aluminum. For everything you need it will be expensive.Another thing, roll cages and fuel cells are not for beginners.. You could get someone hurt or killed.Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:I like the Dynasty 200 so i would have to power that.
Reply:Originally Posted by SquirmyPugRoll cage and fuel cell material is usually thin, like DSW said 150-180 amp machine. For duty cycle I would look at a 200amp inverter machine (Miller Dynasty or similar). I would get minimum 6,000 watt generator so that you can have lights and other things working while welding. You will want a foot pedal for the aluminum. For everything you need it will be expensive.Another thing, roll cages and fuel cells are not for beginners.. You could get someone hurt or killed.
Reply:Originally Posted by superchargedv8The problem is that i do not own the property so changing out the wiring and breaker is not an option. So im just trying to get around the fact that i don't have an outlet i can use so i need something to power up a welder. Initially i was looking at the smaller welders like the diversion 180 but if im gunna have to get a generator to power up a machine id rather just get something a bit bigger or more powerful. The main things ill be using the welder for are to fix some gaps on a mild steel roll cage, probably add some bars, and the big thing is welding aluminum as in a fuel cell or other containers and maybe a bit thicker also; id rather have more machine than i need.
Reply:Originally Posted by superchargedv8The problem is that i do not own the property so changing out the wiring and breaker is not an option. So im just trying to get around the fact that i don't have an outlet i can use so i need something to power up a welder.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWYou never know. Some landlords don't have too much issue with tenants making improvements to the property, assuming they leave them when they move out and have a professional do the work. We rent out my parents house and we've had tenants who wanted to add 230v line to the garage to run wood working tools and we said Ok.Option #2 is to use a long extension cord if your house is equipped with an electric dryer or range. I did a lot of welding in my yard or drive when I rented simply by running a 50 foot 230v extension cord out the basement window from the dryer or out the kitchen door from the range. No permanent alterations and I still use the same extension cord on my 230v mig today at my home. I've found 75-80% of people CAN actually get 230v power if they really tried using this method. The only ones who can't usually have gas appliances. A 30 amp 230v dryer would power a Dynasty 200 and allow you to max out that machine. a 30 amp dryer circuit wouldn't let you run a Syncrowave 180 or 200 to do alum, but you'd probably be able to do 14 ga steel or less. If you stayed under say 100 amps of output you probably wouldn't trip the breaker.
Reply:Originally Posted by 12345678910Do you have an electric wiring outlet for a dryer, or stove ?
Reply:No it's not a hazard as long as it's in good shape and made correctly. You will have some voltage drop issues at that distance, especially if trying to run a transformer machine where 30 amps is already borderline. I'd probably suggest passing on using a cord that long on a transformer unit unless you were doing really thin material simply because you'll probably end up tripping the breaker regularly and get frustrated. If you are using an inverter like the Dynasty, you have plenty of power even if you loose some to voltage drop due to the long length.Keep in mind if you choose to do this you want to use cord, not wire ( romex). Cord is designed to be coiled and uncoiled regularly. Wire is stiff and designed for use in walls. Stiff wire could work harden and crack causing a short that would cause a safety issue.Last edited by DSW; 11-03-2013 at 11:15 PM..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWNo it's not a hazard as long as it's in good shape and made correctly. You will have some voltage drop issues at that distance, especially if trying to run a transformer machine where 30 amps is already borderline. I'd probably suggest passing on using a cord that long on a transformer unit unless you were doing really thin material simply because you'll probably end up tripping the breaker regularly and get frustrated. If you are using an inverter like the Dynasty, you have plenty of power even if you loose some to voltage drop due to the long length.Keep in mind if you choose to do this you want to use cord, not wire ( romex). Cord is designed to be coiled and uncoiled regularly. Wire is stiff and designed for use in walls. Stiff wire could work harden and crack causing a short that would cause a safety.
Reply:Originally Posted by superchargedv8I asked and got a stern no...lol I thought about running the extension chord but the garage is about 100 feet away so i dont know if running an extension chord would be the best....would an extension chord that long pose a potential hazard?
Reply:Before you buy cord check Ebay. I bought 140' of 10/3 soow for $160 shipped.Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:thank you all for the help...much appreciated!
Reply:For 30 Amps at 100 feet, I'd prefer a #8 conductor.  Voltage drop calculator:  http://www.electrician2.com/calculat...r_initial.htmlCord capacity:  http://www.houwire.com/products/tech...icle400_5.html"USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:hitting up ebay and found some 100 foot rolls of 8/3 soow for 235 shipped.Learning the ropes....
Reply:Originally Posted by superchargedv8hitting up ebay and found some 100 foot rolls of 8/3 soow for 235 shipped.
Reply:Just wire yourself a 50amp 240v outlet.  It's a lot easier than you think.
Reply:Running a cord through the house sucks but I did it for years.If you own your own clothes dryer you can add a 220v receptacle to the side of it, that way you don't have to slide the clothes dryer out and unplug it every single time you want to use your welder. Just don't run the dryer and weld at the same time.old Miller spectrum 625 Lincoln SP-135 T, CO2+0.025 wireMiller model 250 and WP-18V torchCraftsman 100amp AC/DC and WP-17V torchCentury 115-004 HF arc stabilizerHome made 4 transformer spot welderHome made alternator welderWhen do you plan on doing these fuel cells?Not trying to rain on your parade, but buying a machine doesn't make you a proficient tig welder, especially on thin aluminum.  Count on hundreds of hours of practice before you can make something watertight, safe and aesthetically pleasing.  A Dynasty will make it that much easier if you leave the factory settings alone and not keep messing with it to find the secret setting that makes those great tig weldors so good (like I did when I had mine-hint, there's no secret setting).TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Dude…if your landlord is getting her panties bunched up over a receptacle; she may relay flip when she sees the sparks flying (grinding, and welding on steel).     My self would not want a tenant performing welding operations on my residential properties.    (Insurance, lawsuits, liability, zoning)
Reply:Do you have an electric dryer? If so an extention cord would do the trick.
Reply:Ahh. Just find you a Bobcat 250 and I think that should power the dynasty for sure. I have a little bit older bobcat I picked up for 3 gs its actually the 250nt it has 10,000 watts of output. The newer models I think have 11,000 on the output. I have not used the 240 hook up on mine yet so I cant vouch for its performance on this matter but im quite impressed with welding capabilities of this machine as will. All in all I think your best bet if going the generator route and economical route is a 250 amp welder generator Blue or Red it shouldn't matter, and im sure if you are patient enough you will find a steal on one. As these machines seem to be a dime a dozen.
Reply:Originally Posted by edwelds99Ahh. Just find you a Bobcat 250 and I think that should power the dynasty for sure. I have a little bit older bobcat I picked up for 3 gs its actually the 250nt it has 10,000 watts of output. The newer models I think have 11,000 on the output. I have not used the 240 hook up on mine yet so I cant vouch for its performance on this matter but im quite impressed with welding capabilities of this machine as will. All in all I think your best bet if going the generator route and economical route is a 250 amp welder generator Blue or Red it shouldn't matter, and im sure if you are patient enough you will find a steal on one. As these machines seem to be a dime a dozen.
Reply:Originally Posted by BistineauWith one of this type of machines, you can outfit them for TIG welding on their own, no need for the Dynasty in the first place. Just get the TIG torch, sheilding gas bottle and pedal switch and your in business. The Dynasty then becomes optional. It can even be done with a Bobcat 225.