Baler repair

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A friend stopped by the shop tonight with some baler parts. It's that time of the year. One of the bearings tore up the end of the idler roller pretty good. I welded it up. The tube wasn't round so I got it darn close and center drilled it and turned to diameter with a live center. Anyone have any tricks for dealing with out of round rollers? The weld seam was very prominent. Is their a way to fixture it in a known round ring and then setup in the steady rest? Any roller masters have photo of a good way to deal with this problem?I got the job done plenty quick and my friend was very happy. I am need of some direction for the next one. Update: Once I got home tonight I realized a "cat head" would likely be the ticket. I found this:http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=33552 Attached ImagesLast edited by forhire; 06-05-2012 at 03:26 AM.Reason: Added link with cat head
Reply:I'm pretty sure Zap covered setting up on an out of round roller in a lathe in the past in one of his posts. I seem to remember him indexing the roller set up in the steady rest so he could machine the roller shaft, probably in prep for heat shrinking a bushing or boring out to old shaft so he could fit a new one and weld it in. What you are showing looks pretty typical fo some of his stuff. If anyone here would know it would probably be him..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:You use a cat head (at least that's what I call it). I think I've posted a pic of mine before. Let's see. Ah here it is. I did post a pic in Zaps thread on the method he used.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=43513  That being said the way you did it is probably faster and the way I do most of my baler rollers. I only use the cat head when I've not got any choice because it takes so long to set up.Millermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Reply:forehire, There is a place here in Iowa a couple towns away from me that does these types of repairs, on combine platform augars,straw and stalk choppers ect.. I will see if I can get some info on this.
Reply:Nice jobMiller bobcat 225g  - spoolmatic 1Mm250 - 30a spoolMiller spectrum 375Thermal arc 95 Everlast Ex 250As the boiler turns, these are the days of our lives
Reply:Originally Posted by irish fixitYou use a cat head (at least that's what I call it). I think I've posted a pic of mine before. Let's see. Ah here it is. I did post a pic in Zaps thread on the method he used.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=43513
Reply:Do you guys not have cat heads with bearings/rollers for your lathes? That's what most guys here would use, I'd assume, but I could be wrong. Don't see them without the bearings/rollers.Bruce
Reply:Originally Posted by forhireThanks! That was exactly the method I was thinking of but I was at a loss to recall how you did it. I need to scrounge up some material and make one before I forget again. When you made your cat head did you machine it out of a solid piece or make it in three pieces?
Reply:Originally Posted by irish fixitI think you're actually referring to the steady rests. My experience with roller steadies is that they're more prone to having chips get in them. Plain steady rests like we've shown work for most things. There are times when a roller steady is needed though.
Reply:Something like that would work well. If you can get a big enough bearing and if you can manage to get the set screws in it to adjust it. I suppose that a larger bearing with a sleeve in it tapped for the setscrews would work. I can't see tapping more setscrews in a hard inner race though.  (I see after rereading you post that was what you was suggesting).   The truth is I think the best would be a bearing and collet setup if you could come up with big enough collets. That way you wouldn't have to take the extra time to adjust it. Just tighten and machine.   Another method would be a four or three jaw chuck on a bearing. That would be a good if heavy way to go.Millermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Reply:What about making a backing plate for a 3 jaw  chuck with a morse taper to put into the tail stock just to put the steady rest on, then you could take it off and center drill it for a live center or what ever you want.
Reply:Originally Posted by ar15is223What about making a backing plate for a 3 jaw  chuck with a morse taper to put into the tail stock just to put the steady rest on, then you could take it off and center drill it for a live center or what ever you want.
Reply:Hey Irish do you think a spherical roller bearing would work?I have a SKF 23124 bearing (120x200x62) pulled from a yarder. The bearing was pulled while replacing other parts and the customer decided to go all new.  It has an ID just shy of 4-3/4". The bearing has some hours on it but it's still in decent shape.  It has a dynamic load rating of 510kN!... which is ~115,000 lbs of force.  It will handle the load no sweat.  Attached ImagesLast edited by forhire; 06-05-2012 at 08:27 PM.
Reply:The belt guides were also very worn. When the bearing wore out the belt started riding again the guides. I few only had about 1/8" remaining. I think this machine has 7 or 8 guides and all were a mess. Tig welded them and smoothed them out with a flap disk.I thought I had some close up photos before and after but I didn't.  Attached Images
Reply:Great bearing but not the best for this application IMO. I suppose it could be made to work if you set it up with setscrews on both sides like my cat head. But I see the main benefit of the bearing setup being that you could get by with setscrews only on one side with the right bearing.   Hmm. I don't suppose you have two of those? Then you could put them side by side and then have the sleeve go through both. That would take care of the self aligning problem.   The other problem I see is that it's not sealed. You'll have to do something about that as well.   Thinking about this some more I think that timken tapered roller bearings might be the way to go. Hmm. I wonder if the back bearing off a semi tractor rear axle would be big enough.   Anyway those are just some thoughts that pop to the top of my head at the moment.  Looks like those guides had a lot of work to do. Just goes to show how one simple thing can tear a whole machine up.Last edited by irish fixit; 06-05-2012 at 09:34 PM.Millermatic 252XMT 304'sDynasty 280DXHypertherm PowerMax 1250Miller Trailblazer 302 EFIOptima PulserXR feeder and XR Edge gun and more athttp://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
Reply:Originally Posted by irish fixitGreat bearing but not the best for this application IMO. I suppose it could be made to work if you set it up with setscrews on both sides like my cat head. But I see the main benefit of the bearing setup being that you could get by with setscrews only on one side with the right bearing.
Reply:Forehire, don't loose that shaker screen bearing (hint, they are different and expensive, when they are worn out they still don't have any internal clearance but are no good for the purpose intended, you may find a sister and have a ton).I've been under the gun since Friday, but have watched a bit and love how the posters have been thinking out loud and giving it a go. I guess it depends on your local but what Irish posted about is what I would call a "Cat Track", it's the same as I remember!Solving your OP solution, I'm pretty much the same as you prolly did, (go down a list of what I know how to do). Which has worked sometimes and sometimes not...On the list is (1) can I hand dress the area around the bearing and center with the steady on that diameter or close (pretty much original). (2) since the tube is doing the work, can I work with that? (I'll get to #2 more later with fun practice). (3) do I have to set the darn thing up in "V" blocks and scribe, punch & drill the center by hand. (4) can I set it up on a horizontal spindle machine against a knee and find the shaft end and hollow bore the diameter (boring head machining the outside instead of the inside). I'm not going to portable centering machines unless you have hundreds of parts, or a good buddy that's that's already spent a few grand...Back to #2, the cat track like Irish was speaking about is the most common in the general job shop work that I've seen. In production shops another solution is a tube with an angled slot inside (lengthwise) that can be used to either drive or steady a round, a pin is inserted in the angled slot and locks the tube to the part when driving or driven. The latter is for many parts usually.Still on #2 there is another solution if you are brave, cause I think it is better seen (at least I think so) before you try and trust it. That is to "buck" the center in, which involves setting the two bottom steady pads a bit below center (scribe in "V" blocks, use center finder, whatever, but at least -.010") and with a center drill with the outside cutting edges at 1:30 and 7:30. This is done with the part rotating and the center "picks the part up" and lifts it off the steady as you work it in. You can tell you are right when the top steady bumps with however many lobes you think you have on the round. your hand is on the top steady & you can tell, trust me, you will know.Darn nice look to the fix BTW!Matt
Reply:Nice job on the repair.Ah, yes it's baler time around here as well. I was at my neighbours place, he fixed the green balers. He must have a dozen or so burned up ones. I guess when the guys are in their cab tractors and the noise gets too loud they just turn up the stereo until the smoke from the hay catching on fire gets their attention. All this because they don't grease the bearings and carry fire extinguishers. The green ones come with extinguishers mounted on the front and I"m amazed at how many are gone off there when the baler is in the field.What make of baler is it?Sign on East Texas payphone: Calls to God 40 cents......it's a local call...
Reply:Originally Posted by StampederNice job on the repair.Ah, yes it's baler time around here as well. I was at my neighbours place, he fixed the green balers. He must have a dozen or so burned up ones. I guess when the guys are in their cab tractors and the noise gets too loud they just turn up the stereo until the smoke from the hay catching on fire gets their attention. All this because they don't grease the bearings and carry fire extinguishers. The green ones come with extinguishers mounted on the front and I"m amazed at how many are gone off there when the baler is in the field.What make of baler is it?
Reply:Originally Posted by StampederWhat make of baler is it?