What size Argon cylinder to buy?

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Hi,Looking at a Miller Econotig... the one that comes with "everything you need to TIG weld except for gas and electrodes".These gas cylinders come in 20, 40, 80, etc cf. from what I can see.How long would a 20 last? A 40? I don't want a larger (or more expensive) cylinder than I need (have a SMALL workshop) but I don't want to be running back and forth to the gas supplier all the time either.Advice gratefully accepted.ThaddeusAn odd fellow, but nice enough. I build "interesting" things.
Reply:20 is super small.  Not worth it unless you plan to carry it around alot by hand.  The 40, 80, 125 and 150 sizes are all the same diameter, just taller as you go up in size.  To me, the 125 or 150 size are the best bang for the buck of the small size cylinders.  The 250 and up are quite large, but I use them too.  They last alot longer and are cheapest to fill (price per volume).  In the end, get whatever size you like, they all work the same!MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:Unless it's a used Miller Econotig, I think you might be better off in the long run looking at a syncrowave 200. You can get them for about $300 more and have a much nicer machine. Thats what I just did.As far as the bottle goes. You generally set the reg to about 20C cfh. So a 20 cf bottle will last about 1 hr of welding, an 80 about 4 hrs. I would shoot for a bigger rather than a smaller bottle. I have an 80 CF bottle and can easily go thru it in a week of practicing tig on my new Syncro 200.
Reply:Get the biggest one you can afford if you're not going to be moving it around all the time.  I got the biggest one my LWS would sell me and I have been welding on it for a long time.  And refills are cheap!Build a Barstool Racer at BarFlyRacers.com!
Reply:The bigger bottles are very little extra cost (relatively) to fill.  You will save a good deal of money (per cubic foot) with the biggest bottle you can afford and feel like transporting.
Reply:I have no pick-em-up truck. What's the biggest one that will fit in the back of a 500 dollar Volvo 740 with 227000 miles? LOL.An odd fellow, but nice enough. I build "interesting" things.
Reply:My tank is 50" tall and, I think, will 'lay back' in the back seat of that Volvo. Unless your wife tells you otherwise. Last edited by Craig in Denver; 04-30-2008 at 11:06 PM.9-11-2001......We Will Never ForgetRetired desk jockey. Hobby weldor with a little training. Craftsman O/A---Flat, Vert, Ovhd, Horz. Miller Syncrowave 250
Reply:Originally Posted by Craig in DenverMy tank is 50" tall and, I think, will 'lay back' in the back seat of that Volvo. Unless your wife tells you otherwise.
Reply:Originally Posted by MAC702The bigger bottles are very little extra cost (relatively) to fill.  You will save a good deal of money (per cubic foot) with the biggest bottle you can afford and feel like transporting.
Reply:You can transport the bottle laying down, just make sure you close the valve, remove the reg and screw on the protective cap and secure the bottle so it doesn't roll around and so it can't slide forward in a panic stop and crush whatever it runs into.MM350P/Python/Q300MM175/Q300DialarcHFHTP MIG200PowCon300SMHypertherm380ThermalArc185Purox oaF350CrewCab4x4LoadNGo utilitybedBobcat250XMT304/Optima/SpoolmaticSuitcase12RC/Q300Suitcase8RC/Q400Passport/Q300Smith op
Reply:one thing to keep in mind tho, ask your supplier first... i was talking to mine about converting to a gas MIG setup, rather than my flux core... come to find out, it's be about a $30,000 switch. they won't let me take home a full tank in an enclosed cab vehicle. a topper on a truck is fine, but a convertible is not. just ask before you do anything.Later,Andy
Reply:wow-argon--my lws said its fine to take acetylene home laying down in back seat, just let it stand vertical so the acetone and gas can redistribute themselves.I dont do that, i have a minivan and can stand it up.
Reply:Originally Posted by aczellerone thing to keep in mind tho, ask your supplier first... i was talking to mine about converting to a gas MIG setup, rather than my flux core... come to find out, it's be about a $30,000 switch. they won't let me take home a full tank in an enclosed cab vehicle. a topper on a truck is fine, but a convertible is not. just ask before you do anything.Later,Andy
Reply:Originally Posted by MAC702I missed something.  What's a $30,000 switch?Your LWS is an idiot.  ASSuming it can leak enough gas to displace enough oxygen to hurt you, it would be impossible with a window open.  The issue should be properly securing the cylinder.
Reply:i think the $30000 switch hes talking about is buying a new pickup?...
Reply:Ha!  Actually, that was quite clever!  Told you I missed something!
Reply:How many backyard barbeque propane bottles are killing people on their way back from the gas station?  Don't they know they should all have service trucks?
Reply:Both LWS locations I go to set the bottles by the door. What you do with 'em is your business. I guess if you're too old a decrepid to load them you're hurtin.  They sure won't.Thank your lawyers, for that.
Reply:Originally Posted by drivethruboy54i think the $30000 switch hes talking about is buying a new pickup?...
Reply:LWS restrictions on closed vehicles aside, a wagon with the back seats folded down should allow you to transport a 300 cu. ft. cylinder with the safety cap between the front seats.
Reply:go for a 150  i have both a 150 and a 250 ( i dont like to run out of gas)  of course hooking up the 250 to the econtig is like running around in your town car with a 100 gallon extra fuel tank in the back, why???  i have the Syncro 180 so it has its own cart and accomidates the larger bottles.  Also i found checking craigslist for welding stuff to be very econimical, i paid 100 dollars for what would have costed my over 700 in tanks plus product at the LWS.  did a trade with the LWS and got my 100 back plus a couple of full bottles!
Reply:I have 2 120's when 1 goes empty I put the full one in and get a refill  asap. I dont like to run out. The 120's are easy for me to load in the truck. I might upgrade to 150's but the 2 tanks work good for me and seem to last quite a while. The 80 I had was gone before I knew it.My lws will upgrade my tanks any time.mm135HTP Invertig 201 With water cooler9" Southbend LatheLots of hand tools.
Reply:Originally Posted by papasloanI have 2 120's when 1 goes empty I put the full one in and get a refill  asap. I dont like to run out. The 120's are easy for me to load in the truck. I might upgrade to 150's but the 2 tanks work good for me and seem to last quite a while. The 80 I had was gone before I knew it.My lws will upgrade my tanks any time.
Reply:Thaddeus,I use "K" size 248 cu.ft argon and C-25 cylinders because they are the biggest I feel comfortable moving alone and yet have a good price per cu. ft. of gas.  Make your own judgment about what size you can handle, but know I have friends who move that size in their SUV's.  Even one guy who flips down his back seat so the cylinder can protrude into his sedan's passenger area from the trunk (with tie-down straps around the neck of course to keep it from moving around).ScottMiller XMT 350 CC/CV w/gas solenoid opt.Miller S-22A wirefeederBernard 400A "Q" gunMiller Spoolmatic 30A / WC-24C-K 200A torch/gas lensWeldcraft WC-18 watercooled torchHypertherm Powermax 30Victor O/A
Reply:The thing is that with acetylene a leak could spell a nice fireball ( how many like to smoke in their cars? ) if you light up.  I took my bottle back because the seals were bad.  Obviously a leak there.  Argon will put you to sleep before you know it since they don't make that stink so you realize there is a leak.Last edited by 3 weelin geezer; 11-08-2011 at 06:33 PM.The LWS that I deal with most often is rental only.  After doing the math, I figured that the price difference between rental on a K size bottle and a smaller bottle equates to one refill per year.  Since filling a K size bottle costs me about $5 more than filling a 40cf bottle, the choice was easy.  The supplier will happily load a bottle into the bed of a pickup, but I have to load it into my station wagon on my own.  Unless you need to handle the bottle for something other than refills, or you are REALLY tight on space, my experience says that bigger is better up to the point that you cant muscle the bottle around on your own. With regard to safety, a leaky 40cf bottle is just as likely to lead to asphyxiation as a K sized bottle.  If that sort of thing worries you, get a hitch and trailer.
Reply:Lease a 330.
Reply:Originally Posted by weregeekThe LWS that I deal with most often is rental only.  After doing the math, I figured that the price difference between rental on a K size bottle and a smaller bottle equates to one refill per year.  Since filling a K size bottle costs me about $5 more than filling a 40cf bottle, the choice was easy.  The supplier will happily load a bottle into the bed of a pickup, but I have to load it into my station wagon on my own.  Unless you need to handle the bottle for something other than refills, or you are REALLY tight on space, my experience says that bigger is better up to the point that you cant muscle the bottle around on your own. With regard to safety, a leaky 40cf bottle is just as likely to lead to asphyxiation as a K sized bottle.  If that sort of thing worries you, get a hitch and trailer.
Reply:I went with an 80cf bottle...didn't last too long maybe a couple weeks of dinking around.I'll probably upgrade to a 122 or 150 next time...probably a 150.
Reply:I bought a 125 to start off.  After a couple weeks of light welding, the gas was gone so I upgraded to a 300 tank.  It doesn't last long!!
Reply:I use the K size, because it's the biggest one that I can pick up and carry to the truck. I have a gravel driveway. If I had a concrete driveway I'd think about getting a bigger one. Someone said something about flowing 20 cfm, that sounds like overkill to me. I use around 10 when inside the shop and about 15 when outdoors.Ian TannerKawasaki KX450 and many other fine tools
Reply:I have a 120 (125?) ,its very easy to get down the basement steps,into the back of my jeep,etc...I wouldn't mind having one of the standard sizes like they have in a shop, but those things are pretty heavy..