Hey Pro's, how would you tackle these?

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I'm curious as to how you guys would weld these up.  I'm using a Deltaweld 451 and a 60 series wire feeder, water cooled gun.  550 ipm and 36V.  Lincoln Ultracore 71C, .052".  100% co2.  These are setup on an automated turntable.  Set the gun height, flip the switch and away she goes.  The inner ring gets a root pass, then the outer.  Back to the inner for a cap, then the outer.  Then the brackets all go on.  The tubing is 40" diameter.I am interested in your thoughts on this.  How would you guys be running these.  We do about a dozen/month and it takes almost eight hours just on the welding/setup.  That doesn't include our machine work.  Would sub-arc be beneficial here?
Reply:Lincoln LA-75 Tiny Twin 5/64 900 amps  sub arc Attached Images
Reply:If it was just the groove weld then subarc would likely be the way to go, though you might need to change the groove geometry a little.  However adding those lugs and the fitting into the equation and I would just stick with regular .052" 70S-2.Why are you running fluxcore?  You get higher deposition with solidwire, no slag to clean up meaning you could run the groove out without stopping.Robotic would make even more sense, but at only a dozen a month it wouldn't be cost effective.So my recommendation? .052" ER70S-2 C2 or O2 gas, 600IPM 34V as a starter.Have we all gone mad?
Reply:The brackets and fitting are put on after the ring manually.  We have tried a LOT of different wire.  The regional Lincoln rep even came out and this was his suggestion of filler we're running now.  Can't seem to get it hot enough with MIG, vs the FCAW seems to be working better.  I'm not saying this is the best solution, that's why I'm gathering opinions.Sub-Arc really appeals to me just because of the intense light of arc...  Even with shields up, all 6500 sqft of the shop just glows, not to mention the fumes.  If I could turn that damn fume extractor off, I would be a MUCH happier man.
Reply:What gas were you running with MIG, and what transfer mode?No reason with a 450A power supply you cant get it "hot" enough.Light with subarc?  Are we talking about the same process here?  With subarc there should be no light, you dont even need a welding hood to run it.Have we all gone mad?
Reply:Think he is referring to the process that is currently being used not subarc."Liberalism is a mental disorder" Dr. Savage
Reply:No, no, no.  The light of the FCAW is why the lightless Sub-Arc is appealing.  We're on the same page, just mixed up a little.I want to say we tried C25, Tri-Blend, and maybe 95/5?  Short circuit.  I agree that there should be enough juice to fo this on MIG, but there is something going on.  We got the welder, feeder, turntable, and all associated equipment with the employee who brought the customer.  I'm unsure about it's history and think something may be up.This is why I want to see how everyone else would run at it.  I'd rather just buy new equipment, and keep this stuff as a backup.  If I can shave enough time off the procedure, the equipment will pay for itself.
Reply:There's your problem right there, no way I would use short circuit for those pieces.  You need to turn your volts up enough to get to spray transfer, as well as using a shielding gas of 80% Ar or greater.  No tri-mix, for spray transfer on steel 98/2 or 95/5 is going to give the best results.Give solid wire another shot, even if you dont save any actual arc time (which I highly doubt this) your going to save a lot of time by not having to clean between the root passes.If you dont have the subarc equipment already, I wouldnt bother.  I think you will be happy enough with solid wire.Your lincoln rep is just selling you the most expensive wire.Have we all gone mad?
Reply:Let me double check my past job sheets on this at the office tomorrow.  How high would you expect the voltage to have to be?  Pretty much already running balls-out.  While it may be true that the Lincoln rep is trying to make a buck, he was called out because we actually got some bad wire and had to machine the weld out.  Our LWS got a "bad pallet".  Lot's of unhappy shop around here for a month or so.  Either way, the first two spools were free and we have just been sticking with it.
Reply:Originally Posted by jmtebbensLet me double check my past job sheets on this at the office tomorrow.  How high would you expect the voltage to have to be?  Pretty much already running balls-out.  While it may be true that the Lincoln rep is trying to make a buck, he was called out because we actually got some bad wire and had to machine the weld out.  Our LWS got a "bad pallet".  Lot's of unhappy shop around here for a month or so.  Either way, the first two spools were free and we have just been sticking with it.
Reply:Spray arc with 98%Argon/2%O2.  (Hotter spray mix than 92%Argon/8%CO2).As Sno mentioned, V and WFS are a function of wire size.Looks like you've got 450A @ 38V available.  I'd be using 1/16-5/64 wire.  The 60 series feeder will push it and the Deltaweld will melt it.Solid wire will reduce cleanup.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Is that a magnet housing?My name's not Jim....
Reply:Originally Posted by BoostinjdmIs that a magnet housing?
Reply:Have you tried metal core wire? Might try 1/16 size.
Reply:Originally Posted by SundownIIISpray arc with 98%Argon/2%O2.  (Hotter spray mix than 92%Argon/8%CO2).As Sno mentioned, V and WFS are a function of wire size.Looks like you've got 450A @ 38V available.  I'd be using 1/16-5/64 wire.  The 60 series feeder will push it and the Deltaweld will melt it.Solid wire will reduce cleanup.
Reply:I would look into sub arc but the learning curve can be steep.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:We use metal core C6    .045 and sometimes .052  about 27 to 29 volts.  .045 at about 350 ipm. You have to use a spray arc gas like 98/2    Preheat is required unless using sub arc.  I could see it taking almost 8 hours if you have to fiddle with the lifting lugs also.  Certainly no more than 8
Reply:Preheat a must with all welds , go to 1/16 71 C and keep with straight CO2 for deep penetration .Solid  wire is not the way to go . You could get a K-113 squirt gun from Lincoln with a cone and run 5/64 LA-75 and 860 flux for sub arc with your  equipment , talk to the Lincoln  rep .John
Reply:Here is a  pic of the gun we feed it with a flux tank . Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by lotechmanWe use metal core C6    .045 and sometimes .052  about 27 to 29 volts.  .045 at about 350 ipm.
Reply:The reason for getting certification for metal core and using metal core is that it is very easy to change wire to meet a new specification.   In the case of hard wire the complete wire has to be changed by the manufacturer at great expense.  With cored wires it is relatively easy to change the composition of the core.  This goes for flux core and metal core wires.   In many cases even though the material in the core has changed the company does not have to re-test personnell.
Reply:I have always noted higher IPM deposition with Metal Core and 71T1 than S6. Just sayin.  Unles you have a Pulse Mig Power Supply. That will equal things out.
Reply:No way in a shower of doo will any cored wire put down more metal than solid wire at identical IPM and depostition effeciency.
Reply:Originally Posted by burnit2I have always noted higher IPM deposition with Metal Core and 71T1 than S6. Just sayin.  Unles you have a Pulse Mig Power Supply. That will equal things out.
Reply:I thought it was more lbs/hour at the same current, not same ipm. I can't recall where I thought I saw that though.Originally Posted by sn0border88Lotechman that makes sense in some cases, but I still don't get the claims of higher deposition rates.  The situations I am familiar with were robots/manual welders running out thick bevels and fillets on 1018.  Guys in charge demanded to run mcore for deposition rates and wouldn't hear any other case so I left it at that, but ive always tried to figure it out.
Reply:Originally Posted by ticnI thought it was more lbs/hour at the same current, not same ipm. I can't recall where I thought I saw that though.
Reply:ITs about Lbs per hour period.   dosent matter what your voltage or IPM is if you can melt the wire and lay the metal and still pass code then thats all that matters.Rate of deposition is king i high production.with that said the other cross point is cost per pound of weld metal deposited.   with those two factors considered your system seems solid so why screw with a proofed and tested  system.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.