Grinding Tungsten

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Sorry if this has been answered before.  After dipping a tungsten in an Aluminum puddle, the Aluminm wicks up the electrode.  When you regrind, do you just grind to a new point, or clip the tip off until you are at clean base metal completely before grinding a new point?ThanksTA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Any contamination left on the tung will cause issues,  I always break mine past the spot and then regrind.  Ultra consistent points are available using a drill and a pink stone on the bench grinder,    I have ab 8 inch dedicated to tung inly and I usually do a couple of packs of tungs at a time so I can just switch out and keep going till I run out of presharps.  Most of the high dollar hanheld sharpeners have a notch for snapping a bad tung off, but 2 vice grips work just as good for me.I'm spending my Kids inheritance, I dont like him that much anyway!!!!!!Enuff tools to do the job, enough sense to use em.Anybody got a spare set of kidneys?  Trade?
Reply:I always break them, I don't want aluminum in my grinding stone.Buy American, or don't whine when you end up on the bread line.
Reply:what are you guys using to cut the tungsten without splitting it?i end up just grinding it back, cause it seems like when i try to cut it, it just splits, causing more wasted tungsten.
Reply:Breaking Tungsten...See post #20 here...http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...light=Tungsten...zap!I am not completely insane..Some parts are missing Professional Driver on a closed course....Do not attempt.Just because I'm a  dumbass don't mean that you can be too.So DON'T try any of this **** l do at home.
Reply:What is wrong with grinding the sides of the tungsten to remove the material which was in the molten puddle?  Occasionally I can do sonething wrong and get a huge glob and break it off.  I can tell by the sparks when I get down to the tungsten.To expand the topic, ok we have contaminated the tungstn so bad we have to snap it off before re sharpening, so have we got tungsten contamination in our last bit of weld.
Reply:Zaps right about breaking, but most of us still do it anyway.  I have shattered a few and thrown little shards everywhere but I do not do any structural or critical welding so a less than perfect weld is not the end of the world for me either.  The art that zap does is another arena completely because his stuff get severely tested every day and he cannot have a bad weld so he does go the extra mile to prevent issues in his stuff.  His way is the right way, and I am getting lazy and sorry anymore.BobI'm spending my Kids inheritance, I dont like him that much anyway!!!!!!Enuff tools to do the job, enough sense to use em.Anybody got a spare set of kidneys?  Trade?
Reply:Depends what your doing... If your practicing I personally wouldn't waste the tungsten. I just grind the diameter and get the aluminum off the electrode (if you really god it balled up) and regrind your end..If your doing a job or something important then it is probably best to break the tungsten off past the contamination pointHTP Invertig 201Lincoln Idealarc SP250Miller 180 AC StickBy farmall:They should have held the seagull closer to the work, squeezing evenly for best deposition.
Reply:Originally Posted by fran...k.What is wrong with grinding the sides of the tungsten to remove the material which was in the molten puddle?  Occasionally I can do sonething wrong and get a huge glob and break it off.  I can tell by the sparks when I get down to the tungsten.To expand the topic, ok we have contaminated the tungstn so bad we have to snap it off before re sharpening, so have we got tungsten contamination in our last bit of weld.
Reply:Grind it back to a flat tip point, get as much of the goo off of it as you can, strike an arc on your brass or copper ground clamp and run to full pedal for a second or two.  Then get your butt back to work.Two turn tables and a microphone.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterBreaking Tungsten...See post #20 here...http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php...light=Tungsten...zap!
Reply:Usually cut mine in half and grind both ends......hardly ever break off the end....Too much waste.......I use a belt sander to dress the tungsten and a cordless drill......Been doing that way since cordless drills came out.....works for me....  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Using an 18, I can't use the last 1" of the tungsten.. and even at that, it's barely held in the collet.  So with a 7" stick, I am losing more than 14% of my tung, never mind breaking it in half to start, and lose well more than 1/4 of it.  Dang cup sticks out so far past the collet-body.I just snip the tung off just above the contamination, then repoint.  It seems like the tung is damaged by the contamination and prone to cracking if I try to clean the contamination off.  This with 1.5% lanthanated on an inverter.  Wear full coverage safety glasses at all times!!"Great spirits have always encountered violent oppostion from mediocre minds."  --  Albert Einstein
Reply:Yes sometimes if you dip more then once or dip for a long time it will make the tung brittle and it will break when you try to grind it. This also happens to tung after welding for an hour or so. When I build a mani I normally have to resharpen the tung twice because the end gets brittle and the ark starts running around the tung. It feels like such a waste but thats how it goes, thats why it is called a consumable.
Reply:Tungsten oxidation will occur no matter what you do even if you don't dip it......So cleaning the Tungsten up during a long run is pretty much normal to keep the weld quality up......Very noticeable when you freshen it up after a long run....especially with DC steel applications  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:I bought a HF saw blade sharpener a few years ago and it was a POS but I never got around to returning it. I took the motor with the diamond wheel and mounted it on a board and it makes a great tungsten sharpener. I rest my fingers on the guard so it has the tungsten parallel to the axis of the motor so it makes longitudinal gring marks. The edge of the blade will also cut off the contaminated end. I bought a spare blade when I got so it should outlive me.Cut an MGB and widened 11" C4 Corvette suspension and LT1 Chevrolet power & 6 spd. Pictures here:Part 1http://forum.britishv8.org/read.php?13,7581Part 2http://forum.britishv8.org/read.php?13,22422
Reply:Hmm everybody has their thing.   I grind the aluminum off on the side of a grinding wheel using a cordless drill.  I rough  the point on bench grinder or belt sander then finish the point in a sharpie.   Its a dremel with a small diamond wheel and lines the tungsten up for me.  Today I was welding aluminum and had to dull my sharpened tungsten before using it.    I sharpen it like a D.  DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:You should break off the tungsten past the point of contamination and re-grind.   However, I've found a fairly good method for not wasting tungsten.  I use a wire wheel on my bench grinder to remove ALL of the aluminum contamination.  You really have to bury the tungsten hard into the wire wheel but with a little patience it will all come off.  Once the aluminum is completely removed I regrind the tungsten on my 4x36 belt sander.Chuck Norris was born in a log cabin that he built with his own bare hands.
Reply:I use a belt sander and just spin it using my fingers.  I used the cordless drill for a while, but was more of a hassle than benefit.  I think the welds come out OK:- "If ya can't be handsome, ya may as well be handy!"   HTP Invertig 201Lincoln Power Mig 255CLincoln SP125+Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 38
Reply:only reason i do the cordless drill trick with the grinding wheel is it gets too hot to hold, and i never get gloves that close to a big grinder.. heard a horror story of someone getting hand pulled into it via the glove. would rather lose skin that fingers.  I break them in half by notching them with angle grinder cut off disc, then just snapping, then sharpen both ends and don't mess with tungsten grinding again for a long long time, even with my regularly scheduled newbie puddle dips.miller syncrowave 250hobart handler 140home made 400 amp engine driven in progress...
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTI do that to save tung.
Reply:Originally Posted by MikeGyverAnd let me guess, you call it "tung" to save time?
Reply:how many tungsten electrodes do you keep on hand?bobs77vet/37ford4drEastwood digital TIG200HH190Lincoln Invertec 155sLincoln weldpak 100sears/craftsman (lincoln) 50a 240v buzz boxO/A rig Harris gaugesnexion cut 50 dxchicago electric (HF) 240v spot welder
Reply:Originally Posted by 37ford4drhow many tungsten electrodes do you keep on hand?
Reply:I ball end my tungsten using a piece of brass or copper on AC. If I get contamination while welding, I immediately flick the torch to splash any molten metal off and then I grind it off and ball-end the tip again. I'm not sure if this does any good, but I figured it might reduce the amount of effort it takes to clean up the tungsten. Usually, if it feels or looks like a minor amount of contamination I either continue welding or hit the copper under AC again (without grinding). If I was doing critical welding, then I'd care but for the run of the mill fabs I do, it really doesn't matter in my eyes.how do i  clean a grinding wheel for use on tungsten?  i have a grinding wheel that has only been used on the side for sharpening drill bits and shows no wear on the face.  do i need to do something special to use it the first time?  or from this time forward is just using it for tungsten good enough?  i have never TIG welded before so i am sure i will be doing a bunch of sharpening in the near future...thks bobbobs77vet/37ford4drEastwood digital TIG200HH190Lincoln Invertec 155sLincoln weldpak 100sears/craftsman (lincoln) 50a 240v buzz boxO/A rig Harris gaugesnexion cut 50 dxchicago electric (HF) 240v spot welder
Reply:The best way I have found to clean and true a grinding wheel is with a stick of Norbide or generic boron carbide.  One piece will last you forever as it's extremely hard.  If you use a grinding wheel, grind the tungsten with the point aimed at the floor.Last edited by Garauld; 12-23-2011 at 07:23 PM.- "If ya can't be handsome, ya may as well be handy!"   HTP Invertig 201Lincoln Power Mig 255CLincoln SP125+Thermal Dynamics Cutmaster 38
Reply:Originally Posted by GarauldThe best way I have found to clean and true a grinding wheel is with a stick of Norbide or generic boron carbide.  One piece will last you forever as it's extremely hard.  If you use a grinding wheel, grind the tungsten with the point aimed at the floor.
Reply:I grind tung point up on the grinder. Pushes any impurities back on the tung and not to the point. Never had it grab yet.
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTI grind tung point up on the grinder. Pushes any impurities back on the tung and not to the point. Never had it grab yet.
Reply:You can get Norbide or equivalent at any of the large supply houses like MSC or McMaster-Carr.  There's one on EBay now (item 280794269254) for $13 delivered - a very good deal.Pushes any impurities back on the tung and not to the point.
Reply:Originally Posted by 37ford4drmy first time using a big buffing wheel on an aluminum intake manifold it was looking good and my inexperience made me think i had it handled....and then i got "wrong " on the axis damn thing nearly scared the bejessus out of me....since then i really respect those big spinning wheels
Reply:Since I have been reading this, I chuck it in the drill.  I then cut off any HUGE drops, or grind off little stuff.  I don't want to snap it in a vice, I have bad luck with hardened steel. Next if it needs it is 1"  belt sander with tungsten spinning the opposite way still in the drill cleaning from the tip back.  Then dress them in the hand held tungsten sharpener.  Install in torch, dunk, repeat  Because of this I am soon getting a 6" belt sander for the shop.  The one inch wide belts wear out fast then break no matter what I am doing.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Yeah, nothing like crawling out of a car to grind a new tip. Crawl back into the most awkward position back in the car, get gloves and lid all on just right, position the foot peddle filler and torch all right to get ready to go back to work and dip the tung right off the bat....
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTYeah, nothing like crawling out of a car to grind a new tip. Crawl back into the most awkward position back in the car, get gloves and lid all on just right, position the foot peddle filler and torch all right to get ready to go back to work and dip the tung right off the bat....
Reply:WEAR a face shield when grinding tungsten. It can snap off and go a LONG way. Happened often at the welding school where I worked. We taught students to use a bench grinder because wheels are cheap and most jobsites they'd work in the field don't have sharpeners. I sharpen mine outside since the thoriated tungsten dust isn't wise to ingest.Fun fact:You can leave ordinary bench grinders outdoors for many years if you cover them. I cut a small plastic drum lengthwise and lay it horizontally over my grinder. It's been outside for about ten years.... Bonus is never having to sweep up and no grinding grit indoors.Last edited by farmall; 12-28-2011 at 09:35 AM.
Reply:I have a bench grinder just for tungsten.  I cut part of the guard off the back side so I can grind tungstens with no chance of digging in.  The guard fits really tight so I cut a shallow notch to rest the tungsten in. It works great.  I can still get down to about 1" long piece. Probably won't dig in  with a  bench grinder and an electric drill but better safe than sorry. At my last job before retiring,  I was right next to a guy who was grinding tungstens on a 24 in disc sander by hand and he lost the end of his left index finger to first knuckle and half as much off his left thumb.  25 yr old talented welder now in a real fix.  How are you going to hold a rod with major parts of a hand gone???  I just hate it when this stuff happens.  Fingers right next to a pinch point....common sense.....unfortunately you can't teach this.  Experience is a hard teacher. The sad part was that there were warning pictures posted at this machine showing accepted method and forbidden methods of sharpening electrodes and he was already cited once for violating these rules.  I don't even have to say what was forbidden.  Besides the pain he was given a week off with out pay for violating safety rules.  Just be carefull breaking and sharpening electrodes.
Reply:Originally Posted by Canoe2fishIn a case where you expect to foul a tip; sharpen and/or prep several (or a whole pack of) tungstens and have them with you so you dont have to get out of position.
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTI grind tung point up on the grinder. Pushes any impurities back on the tung and not to the point. Never had it grab yet.
Reply:No it won't.
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTNo it won't.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterThat my friend is EXTREMELY dangerous!!!!!One day you will end up with a hole in your hand and wonder where the tungsten went..Don't say "NO IT WON'T" because yes it will......It's only a matter of time..Here is how I do it..I stand behind the grinder and use the top of the wheel..NO I do not dress it anymore..I like the grooves..Pics tell all..This way here nothing is coming at you......zap!
Reply:Being new at it, I was wondering what the fuss was about, but looking at Zap grinding short pieces it's easy to see how one could dig into the stone. Having it chucked into a holder looks like it would make it safe in either direction tho, more safe grinding from the rear, obviously. I have a couple old chucks somewhere, gonna dedicate one of them to the cause.. thanks for the pics.LibertarianLincoln AC/DC 225Everlast PowerPlasma 70 Hobart IronmanEverlast PowerTig 200DX
Reply:Just because of this thread, I bought a 4"x 36" belt sander.  It dresses the side of the tungsten well.  Removes the aluminum but leaves the tungsten.  The 80 grit belt that came with it is too course, so I am out after a 220 grit belt this morning.Thank YouDavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by zapsterThat my friend is EXTREMELY dangerous!!!!!One day you will end up with a hole in your hand and wonder where the tungsten went..Don't say "NO IT WON'T" because yes it will......It's only a matter of time..Here is how I do it..I stand behind the grinder and use the top of the wheel..NO I do not dress it anymore..I like the grooves..Pics tell all..This way here nothing is coming at you......zap!
Reply:The grooves just happen from sharpening enough tung.
Reply:
Reply:Originally Posted by Jake98Being new at it, I was wondering what the fuss was about, but looking at Zap grinding short pieces it's easy to see how one could dig into the stone. Having it chucked into a holder looks like it would make it safe in either direction tho, more safe grinding from the rear, obviously. I have a couple old chucks somewhere.
Reply:Originally Posted by VPTThe grooves just happen from sharpening enough tung.
Reply:i may open up a window maybe even just a hole  in the back of my enclosed grinding wheel to do it from behind also.....i bet its easier to hold straight this way alsobobs77vet/37ford4drEastwood digital TIG200HH190Lincoln Invertec 155sLincoln weldpak 100sears/craftsman (lincoln) 50a 240v buzz boxO/A rig Harris gaugesnexion cut 50 dxchicago electric (HF) 240v spot welder