|
|
So I've read the benifets of using a gas lense... Smoother gas flow and better visibility. Why then isn't everyone using them? Is shape or size an issue? Durability? I cant imagine it's cost. Does the extra visibility eventually cause problems being too bright?Thanks for any insight.How do you know the blacksmith's dog? When you hollar at him he makes a bolt for the door!
Reply:Gas lenses help dispurse the gas more evenly and cover the weld much better. Its pretty much a neccesity for stainless, but I use it for everything. I'm not sure why more people dont use it. There are a broader range of some oddball cups (long tappered shaped ones) that only fit collet bodies, but I always use gas lenses, much nicer welds.
Reply:I could never tell a difference honestly.
Reply:All the literature I've read shows illustrations and what not of much less turbulence, and of course this is in ideal clean and static air conditions. They also show/explain much more quality 'reach' of the shielding gas coverage that allows a longer stick out of the electrode to reach into tight spots. And then there is the better visibility.I realize I'm a bonafide newbie with no personal experience to pull from to make my own opinions. But that's why I'm here asking.I'm interested in hearing from you guys with the hood time using this stuff to see if the benefits that are touted on the interwebs and elsewhere are actually true. Is it tradition that has so many people using the aluminum oxide cups and collets? Do they have an edge over the lens setup? Or is the actual benefit from using the Pyrex glass setup not really that substantial?Thanks for the feedback and discussion How do you know the blacksmith's dog? When you hollar at him he makes a bolt for the door!
Reply:I asked this very question not long ago, and someone pointed out that gas lenses aren't desirable with metals that tend to spit crap up into the torch cause the screens get clogged. That's the only real negative I've heard.Lincoln Idealarc 250 (circa 1962)Lincoln Weldpak 155 w/Mig KitLincoln Squarewave TIG 175
Reply:Originally Posted by papaharley03I asked this very question not long ago, and someone pointed out that gas lenses aren't desirable with metals that tend to spit crap up into the torch cause the screens get clogged. That's the only real negative I've heard.
Reply:there is a diference with the ck worldwide stuff in that the screen can be replaced instead of the whole screen and tungsten holder, some might not like them and some do. I picked up a set not long ago and really like it, just my opinion.
Reply:I like the CK products too. Nice to know about the replaceable screens. I think there are a number of good reasons to use gas lenses, better coverage with less gas, and ability to stick out tungsten further while still getting good coverage. I think there are a lot of old school guys out there who weld just fine with standard nozzles, and hold the attitude of why fix it if it isn't broken. I've heard some people say they don't work well on aluminum, but I feel better more even gas flow always helps.Proud to support Reliable Sheet Metal Works, in Fullerton, CA.Full service sheet metal fabrication serving Orange County since 1926.http://www.reliablesheetmetal.com
Reply:Thanks guys, and again I realize I'm reaching here without laying down some beads of my own and figuring it out for myself.But is seems so far that I've got:-1 for crap splattering back up and clogging the diffuser for the gas (eliminating all benefits) and+a bunch (in a general sense) for everything else due to a lack of discussion ThanksHow do you know the blacksmith's dog? When you hollar at him he makes a bolt for the door!
Reply:If you need to extend your tungsten out further than normal for a tight spot lenses are very handy.Otherwise they aren't really needed.We welded Stainless long before the gas lens..Buy American, or don't whine when you end up on the bread line.
Reply:WeldingMachine,Thanks for the feedback for sure.I realize that they might not be needed. Any input towards the negative effects of just using the glass exclusively? I guess this is the input that I'm really interested in.ThanksHow do you know the blacksmith's dog? When you hollar at him he makes a bolt for the door!
Reply:As a new guy to welding using a gas lens has helped me out a lot. I feel like when I switched I had far better puddle control. Maybe that is just me. I haven't found a reason to switch back to a standard cup except that I want to see if I can get the same welds with and without the lens.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Originally Posted by that'll_buff_out[B]-1 for crap splattering back up and clogging the diffuser for the gas (eliminating all benefits)
Reply:I've used gas lenses on my home welder for a good many years. I like the ability to stick the electrode out a bit farther especially when welding out of position on the race cars. Seems like I'm always laying on somethig or over something operating the pedal with about any part of me that isn't holding the torch. I don't see any problem welding aluminum with them either. I always stick a small and old beat up red plain ceramic in the torch when I'm done for the day for the clowns that like to use my welder when I have it at the shop and I'm not around. haha.I took a couple gas lenses to a weld test for a job I applied for a few years ago. I was the only one out of 15 guys that passed the weld tests so that says something I think.
Reply:Have a look at the youtube.com/weldingtipsandtricks channel. His latest video has a bit on gas lenses. I put on a #8 gas lens about 6 months ago and I don't think it's been off the torch since. I didn't notice a huge difference with normal welds, but I think it does help a bit with stainless. I've had no troubles with screen clogging.
Reply:I found out the hard way. Do not weld overhead with a gas lenz.I use them on and off. I usually do not have one on the torch. Lately I have been doing a lot of stainless and I bought a bigger torch that takes a bigger gas lens to see if I can get silver shiny stainless welds. I just got the torch so I can't comment yet. Those nice clear glass ones are about $50.00. Lava nozzle $0.65 Drop a few. On my last round of stainless, It was hard to tell the difference. #8 with gas lenz or plain ol #12 with out. The #12 seemed to give better welds. Look at projects and pictures, there are a few examples. Both on a WP9 water cooled torchDavidReal world weldin. When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by that'll_buff_outIs it tradition that has so many people using the aluminum oxide cups and collets? Do they have an edge over the lens setup?
Reply:Originally Posted by David RI found out the hard way. Do not weld overhead with a gas lenz.
Reply:There seems to be some problems with terms here. I guess the gas lens or the collet body is the choice for the thing to screw into the torch, the collet is the same. The thing I screw on which can break is either white or pink. Yes there are clear ones I never have had. Is the origional poster asking why everyone doesn't buy these more expensive more brittle devices? Most people on these forums seem to be rather cost concious whether it really matters in the grand scheme of things pertaining to little disposable parts is questionable in my opinion.The non gas lens is the one to reach for when clearences to fit into become an issue. At least in my parts drawer I have long narrow, narrower than the gas lens itself, ceramic parts to fit the non gas lens stuff if the best approach is to try and approximate a stick electrode to get into the problem spot. Going the other way with the shortest end cap to tighten down the collet the non gas lens will have a smaller volume, diameter and length.The pink kind of ones are pretty durable the way I abuse things by accident. I also think if you weld on mild steel impurities in the steel itself will make spatter going into the screens, it is just part of the process. Maybe if you had new metal from high grade lots and ground everywhere first it would be less than in my real world observation. At least the amount of spatter on the workpiece is virtually none.
Reply:Originally Posted by KelvinI think you're confusing "glass gas cup" with "gas lens."They're different.
Reply:You need to do some foot work here and do some research of your own. Go to the manufactures website and go on ebay and get familiar with the parts breakdown and parts #'s associated with them.
Reply:Ive been retired from 96. In all my years of using a Heli Arc I never saw nor heard of a gas lens. So I figure its something that just came out in the last 16 years. Does anyone have a picture of what it is and will it work on any torch? Just really curious. Mac
Reply:Originally Posted by jesusno2I could never tell a difference honestly.
Reply:Originally Posted by papaharley03I asked this very question not long ago, and someone pointed out that gas lenses aren't desirable with metals that tend to spit crap up into the torch cause the screens get clogged. That's the only real negative I've heard.
Reply:You probably researched it by now but one of my top two results came back with this quote"Glass nozzles consist of two types: Pyrex a low-temperature, nonconductive glass material, and Quartz a high-temperature, nonconductive glass material. These glass materials are hand-blown to make nozzles for specialty TIG torches for micro welding, and for large purging nozzles. Because glass nozzles cant be threaded, you need to convert your "standard" TIG torch with modified collets, collet bodies or gas lens collet bodies to accept a push-on glass nozzle."I know I looked through all the stuff at an airgas place trying to find a little white insulator and they sure didn't stock any clear cups.http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=27141 You might look to posts # 7 and 10Thanks guysHow do you know the blacksmith's dog? When you hollar at him he makes a bolt for the door!
Reply:Originally Posted by jesusno2I could never tell a difference honestly.
Reply:LOL.....the OP thot 'gas lenses' wer transparent nozzle cups 'lenses' like , as in some kind of molecular hi-tek bi-focal , to magnify and project the rays . Welders ramped on for a dozen posts befor they realized ....lmao xDDD. My wimpy little #9 torches , the one on the rite has that litle screen looking gas lens collet body on the inside of the cup ther. The skinny ones mor common for getting anywhere. Attached Images thermal arc 252i - millermatic 350P - miller XMT, cp300ts, 30a 22a feeders, buttload of other millers, handfull of lincolns, couple of esabs - Hypertherm 1250 G3
Reply:The benifits of the lense is gas diffusion. At higher flows the gas can manipulate the puddle if to high. The lense will allow the use of higher flow rates without the effects on the weld puddle. Also, walking the cup is so much easier with the larger gas lenses than with the smaller cups. I have both...depends on what I am welding at the time. Piping, gas lense, plates- cups.A young green pipe welder asked an old salt one day...How can I make the weld on the bottom of the pipe look like the top.......The old salt replied....Screw up the top......
Reply:The only advantage I notice with a gas lens is you can run the tungsten wayyyyy out and still get good gas coverage.......Like getting down between two parts that are close together and you can't get a cup small enough to fit the gap.......Saved my tail lots of times..... Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:Thanks for the information. Could a person just punch some out of fine stainless screen? I think I'll try it. Mac
Reply:Nope its a completely different tip......If it was that easy we all would do that Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:So I'll try out the GLASS CUP and the GAS LENS setup. Then I'll try to use the GAS LENS with a Standard Alumina or Lava cup. Then I'll compare that to those same Standard Alumina or Lava cups with Standard Collet bodies.Then I can check out the differences for myself in different positions.I posted this to check if I have a better grip on the right terminology. As well as clearing the terminology up for those that I may have confused with my previous gibberish.Does this sound like a better scenario?Thanks for all you do.How do you know the blacksmith's dog? When you hollar at him he makes a bolt for the door!
Reply:The Pyrex cup and gas lense will get the same results as the are both set up with a mesh diffuser, but the standard cup wont fit a Pyrex cup setup.Gas lense setups have different size cups available, but the Pyrex setups ive seen/used seem to be available in one size only.
Reply:I am just an amateur welder, but I started out using a clear Pyrex cup with a lens. I thought it was great, until I spattered one and dropped the other. $16 each. Now I use alumina cups, and don't really find much difference. I thought the visibility was great with the glass cup, but I seem to be able to see everything I need to with the opaque cups that cost under a dollar. I should mention that, so far, when I need extra stick-out, it's in a fillet, not a round tube joint. I can see where extra gas coverage might be handy working with round tube, but I don't do much of that yet. I did also have a plan to make some cheap Pyrex cups. I got a box of test tubes for free off Craigslist ( UNused, thankfully ) that are close enough to the correct size diameter, but I haven't yet been able to cut one without cracking it. If I ever figure out how to, I'll have a lifetime supply. I don't think anyone posted an actual picture yet, so here's one I had laying around. Ignore the dumb insect.Last edited by David Hillman; 12-14-2011 at 12:28 AM.__David Hillman
Reply:Probably a brown recluse.
Reply:I've never used the gas lens cup, but from my understanding the biggest issue with it is actually the increased gas feed required vs a traditional cup. Hence bringing cost up. A difference of 5 cfm in a factory type place is huge as for how much gas is used up over a year.
Reply:Originally Posted by dj55bI've never used the gas lens cup, but from my understanding the biggest issue with it is actually the increased gas feed required vs a traditional cup. Hence bringing cost up. A difference of 5 cfm in a factory type place is huge as for how much gas is used up over a year.
Reply:Originally Posted by David RRead about a gas lenz. They claim 1/2 the flow rate needed from a standard lava nozzle because of the flow of the gas.I use the gas lens occasionally but still cannot tell much of a difference.David
Reply:It's funny at the hotrod shop where I do most of my work, the guy that owns it read somewhere that you need at least 20 cfm or more for TIG. So he makes sure we use at least 20 cfm. He pays the bill so what can I say??? He is a non TIG welder. When I do my own stuff my gas is turned down. I did some weld samples a while back down as low as 10 cfm and had no problems with porosity, cracks or appearance.
Reply:I have noticed when the gas flow gets too high it tends to move the puddle around....I have worked in shops that keep the roll up doors up and with windy days you would have to jack up the gas flow to keep it on the weld...... Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:I prefer the gas lens myself. Especially on stainless. I like to run hot and turn the gas up to help keep it cool so you can really move. Running a gas lens allows you to put a bigger cup on the torch too allowing you to walk the cup around the pipe faster and easier. As long as you run on clean metal and don't try and use it for a cutting torch you won't have any trouble with the screen being choked up with weld bb's even running overhead.Lincoln Ranger 300 DLXRoundtop Lincoln Idealarc 250Miller 110
Reply:I am just getting into tig, and this thread caused me to get an understanding of the various components...it gets confusing. I found this illustration that clarified the various configurations possible for a typical WP-17 torch. Attached ImagesLast edited by Ken Smith; 01-06-2012 at 02:03 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by con_fuse9If you ever try to TIG weld on galvanized. Like car bodies. Some of the galvanization is in-between the spot welded sheet metal. Impossible to grind out. It will spatter like a MIG welder and ruin the screen. Then comes cost. Regular collets are few bucks, lens tend to be 10-20 last time I checked.
Reply:Originally Posted by David HillmanI am just an amateur welder,
Reply:Originally Posted by papaharley03As I understood it, that will only occur with certain exotic metals and/or procedures and is not the norm in TIG welding. If every thing is as clean as it should be, there shouldn't be any crap jumping up into the cup.Papa
Reply:Originally Posted by Tool MakerIve been retired from 96. In all my years of using a Heli Arc I never saw nor heard of a gas lens. So I figure its something that just came out in the last 16 years. Does anyone have a picture of what it is and will it work on any torch? Just really curious. Mac
Reply:Originally Posted by Donoharmwonder why nobody told you yet, you need more postflow , the discoloration on your tungie comes from theretry 1s postflow for each 10 A, also keep the torch in place after finishing the weld for the duration of postflow.
Reply:david, cut your glass tube with a small diamond grit cut off saw that rock collectors use. circular saw blade about as thick as a razor blade and about 4 inches across) Do it under running water. Cut is smooth as glass (!) and only takes about 5 secconds.Like cutting hot butter !Tim |
|
发表于 2021-8-31 23:19:34