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What the heck is the name of the MIG wire everyone uses for bodywork? Silbraze or something? I searched and can't find it. Originally Posted by SundownIIIDon't get me wrong. They are just as ill informed about politics as they are about welding, they just post more on that subject.
Reply:ESAB Easy grindReal world weldin. When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by jmtebbensWhat the heck is the name of the MIG wire everyone uses for bodywork? Silbraze or something? I searched and can't find it.
Reply:Yep, Denny is the one who was talking about it I think. I'll shoot him a PM if he doesn't reply in here. Originally Posted by SundownIIIDon't get me wrong. They are just as ill informed about politics as they are about welding, they just post more on that subject.
Reply:Hey jm,Here's the wire I use. I can't remember who I got it from. I used to get it from WeldingDepot, although, I don't think they carry .023 anymore. It comes on an 8" spool rather than a 4" spool, & you get 2#. You may have to do a Google search & you can see it's HTP mfg.. It does a superb job on thin sheetmetal.......gotta run 100% Ar.. Since most of the resto's I do are inside, I generally run 15cfh & never an issue. CLEAN metal......do some practice on some residual(scrap) material of the same thickness you want to join. It's not hard.DennyAddendum: I found it.....http://www.usaweld.com/023-Silicon-B...re-p/58223.htm Attached ImagesLast edited by yorkiepap; 01-07-2012 at 11:33 AM.Complete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:If you go to HTP's site and click on specialty wire it's at the top of the list !!!!http://www.usaweld.com/Specialty-Wires-s/58.htmI.B.E.W Electrician and Damn Proud of It !!!! .Virtus Junxit Mors Non Separabit http://www.shrinershospitalsforchildren.org/
Reply:Sorry didn't realize you posted the link already,this stuff is kinda expensive ?I.B.E.W Electrician and Damn Proud of It !!!! .Virtus Junxit Mors Non Separabit http://www.shrinershospitalsforchildren.org/
Reply:It's not Sil Braze it's Silicon Bronze.
Reply:there are also brands of mig wire that have more or less silicon bronze and manganese and they all have different welding characteristics. thermal arc 252i - millermatic 350P - miller XMT, cp300ts, 30a 22a feeders, buttload of other millers, handfull of lincolns, couple of esabs - Hypertherm 1250 G3
Reply:Hey woi2ld,Your statement makes no sense at all. Brands of MIG wire mean nothing. The composition of MIG wire means everything. A MIG wire is either a steel wire or an "other" than steel wire. Steel, SS, Alum., F-C MIG wires do not contain Bronze. Steel MIG wire has a composition of varying elements & will have trace amounts of Si(silicone)(generally <1.5%) & Mn(manganese)(generally <2%) which allows the wetting properties to be changed in the most common MIG wires used. A silicone-bronze wire CONTAINS NO STEEL!!!!!! The same applies to aluminum-bronze & phosphor-bronze MIG wires........NO STEEL in the composition. Don't confuse an issue with a generalized statement of silicone-bronze & manganese without clarifying the EXACT nature of your response. EVERY MIG wire with EVERY type of different composition "will have different welding characteristics." Do some more homework......Hey Sparky#1: Yes, it may seem expensive, although really not as it goes a looooong way since it is used for tacking & not running fillets. I do charge xtra using it.DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:Originally Posted by yorkiepapHey woi2ld,Hey Sparky#1: Yes, it may seem expensive, although really not as it goes a looooong way since it is used for tacking & not running fillets. I do charge xtra using it.Denny
Reply:Hey jm,The SiBrz beads will have a bronze tint to them.....means nothing. Print out this thread with the pics I posted & SHOW HIM!!!!! You know......every day is wasted unless you learn at least one new thing...... maybe it will make his day.DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:I already saved your post to my hard drive! Any chance you have a few pictures of any freshly welded joints? I am considering not grinding the joints on a lot of my body work for a different look. It would be an interesting look for the interior I think. Originally Posted by SundownIIIDon't get me wrong. They are just as ill informed about politics as they are about welding, they just post more on that subject.
Reply:" every day is wasted unless you learn at least one new thing...... "If its not his it will be mine. Yorkiepap would you define " thin " metal in a number or guage? You said tacking wire, would this work on beads on 14-12 guage metal?I am about to do some mitered angled faceframes for a set of tool boxes and I want them to look really good without putty, suitable or or not?Thanks
Reply:Originally Posted by yorkiepapHey woi2ld,Your statement makes no sense at all. Brands of MIG wire mean nothing. The composition of MIG wire means everything. A MIG wire is either a steel wire or an "other" than steel wire. Steel, SS, Alum., F-C MIG wires do not contain Bronze. Steel MIG wire has a composition of varying elements & will have trace amounts of Si(silicone)(generally <1.5%) & Mn(manganese)(generally <2%) which allows the wetting properties to be changed in the most common MIG wires used. A silicone-bronze wire CONTAINS NO STEEL!!!!!! The same applies to aluminum-bronze & phosphor-bronze MIG wires........NO STEEL in the composition. Don't confuse an issue with a generalized statement of silicone-bronze & manganese without clarifying the EXACT nature of your response. EVERY MIG wire with EVERY type of different composition "will have different welding characteristics." Do some more homework......Hey Sparky#1: Yes, it may seem expensive, although really not as it goes a looooong way since it is used for tacking & not running fillets. I do charge xtra using it.Denny
Reply:Personally i've always been sceptical of things like Spoolarc easy grind... no AWS approvals and according to the data sheets the chemistry is no different from many of the er70 type wires. Data sheets here... http://www.esab.ca/ca/en/Support/upload/CAN305-A.pdfSilicon Bronze is usually copper, 3% silicon, 1% manganese aka CuSi3. Don't have much experience of it with MIG but i believe some (particually cheaper DIY) sets won't go low enough to run it properly on thin gauge stuff like bodywork
Reply:Silicon bronze is what the OP is referring to. Expensive in 2 lb. rolls but not too bad for 10 lb. If your LWS doesn't have it, www.weldingsupply.com has the best price.Straight argon for the gas. My old Lincoln SP100 runs .030 just fine.JohnA few weldersA lot of hammersA whole lot of C-clamps
Reply:Originally Posted by hotrodderSilicon Bronze is usually copper, 3% silicon, 1% manganese
Reply:Hey jm,Sorry, I don't have any recent pics of the resto's I've done. The next one, scheduled for Apr., is going to be a complete frame-up on a '67 GTO. I'll take pics from start to finish & post them when I start the job. There's nothing wrong with wanting a bit of "different".Hey Fred: Hmmm...."thin" is really with the individuals' interpretation of metal one works with & the "feel" of the material as some define any metal that will flex easily by hand is "thin". Personally, I use both numerical & gauge measurements as I learned them many years ago along with metric. Sheetmetal is measured both in gauge & numerical, ie., .062"=16ga=1.55mm & my steel supplier usually refers to gauge specs when I give him a decimal equivalent..... I'll say I need some .062 & he says, ok, that's 16ga......yup. I call "thin" as <.040"(19 or 20ga.) If you want to do those frames, 12 or 14 ga., I would opt for a 110v/90-130A unit with .023 as the 110v units can really dial down to get a nice bead on "thinner" material. I made a copy of a brass frame for a customer & brazed all the joints completely with a fillet & the 110v unit worked superb. Takes some practice.....it's not hard. I was gonna TIG it, but the customer wanted to keep costs down & wanted the braze all ground down to a smooth exterior & wanted to get a patina finish.Hey woi2ld: First, the OP clearly indicated "silbraze" since he didn't know the correct name, not any steel filler. This thread has nothing to do with steel fillers. You response that: "other mig wires that definately weld better" is totally irrelevant. The OP did not indicate the term/word "weld" in the OP, did he?????? I didn't read it.Next......WTF do "painters" have to do with anything on this forum? Why would you attempt to project another profession into what you feel is my criticism of your posting? I could give a rats' a$$ as to what another person's career or profession is. My challenges are to a responders information as to what the OP is requesting & the answers he is receiving that pertains to the subject at hand. Is that so hard to contemplate? Now, if you feel you want to "pick your posts apart", referring to my response, be my guest. Just be sure you want to "open that door". As I responded to you once before, be sure to respond to any thread or post with complete clarity, concise facts, & experienced knowledge. Otherwise, what does it accomplish but more off-tangent dribble. It is quite evident you do not like a bit of criticism & immediately go into a "defensive posture". There is nothing personal regarding my challenges to misinformation or irrelevant diatribe that is not needed. Nuff said.Hey John: As it may seem a bit expensive regarding 2#, 10# is definitely less expensive per wt., unless you were doing brass/bronze projects steady & one auto resto a week, a 2#'r will last quite a while doing auto panels.DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:Maybe the OP had heard "Sil-flow" or "Sil-fos" which are different critters but if I thought my stuff was beautiful and had the money I may use.Brazing body panels by copper based "old school" is a good climb, silver based is much easier.Just a thought...Matt
Reply:Yorkiepap,The frames are 13 guage, the smaller frames are 2" wide with a 1" U channel bent into them and I am not too worried about them bending. The top frame has the same U chanel on 1 edge but they are 6" and its the outer edge away from the channel I was worried about.I don't have a 110 welder just 220, my thought was giving the .023 or the .030 a try on this.
Reply:Hey Fred,I don't see any serious issue using a 220v unit other than the possibility the drive roll may not have a .023/.030 groove. Most of the 220v units I've seen & my 220v units have a .030/.035 groove & my 110v units have the .023/.030 groove. Since your material is quite a bit heavier 13ga=.094", .030 filler should work easily & be a bit less expensive. I strongly suggest to get some like material or cutoffs of the material you are using to get a good setup with your heat/wf. Be sure to clean all the seams/joints & start with initial tacking in place. If you find you cannot run 1" fillets, then just apply 1/4"-1/2" tacks alternating locations & wire brush between application. You should be able to get a good complete fillet for the entire project albeit a bit more time-consuming. If you have success, post pics for others to learn the use of SilBrz for their needs/projects.DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:Just checked it will be .030 as my drive roller is .030 on the small setting. Are running straight Argon with that, not a mix?
Reply:Originally Posted by David RESAB Easy grind
Reply:You should be able to buy an .025 groove drive roller. They do wear out and should be available.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.Ive always used a mixed gas for CuSi. Usualy Ar + 10% CO2My welding book also lists it being compatible to Ar + 10-15% CO2 Ar + 20-25% CO2 Ar + 3% O2 He + 25% Ar
Reply:Originally Posted by woi2ldAre you calling bs on yorkiepap?
Reply:Originally Posted by hotrodderNo idea how you could read what i wrote and think that (huffing paint thinners?)*Brand names are just brand names, they don't all draw their own wire. Some sell decent stuff under their name at a reasonable price, some sell cheap tat and others have made themselves a nice little niche by marketing the good stuff as 'speciality' or the like, spouting all sorts of vague claims/properties instead of AWS approvals and charging a hefty premium. I'm not having a pop as i've never used 'easy grind' due to my addiction to cynical pills but am struggling to understand how it can be so much more ductile and easy to grind/sand compared to er70 type wires. While it has no approvals it is in effect an er70 series wire. The mechanials are in the range (in fact it's stronger and less ductile than some) as is the composition. I posted a link to the compositions yesterday, mechanicals are here...Spoolarc easy grind... http://products.esabna.com/EN/home/filler_metals_catalog/filler_metals_product_detail/q/display_id.id4367f2a958f8c3.05458256/category_id.504ER70S-3... http://www.weldingmaterialsales.com/Product_pages/er70s3_productpage.htm and er70s-2... http://www.weldingmaterialsales.com/Product_pages/er70s2_productpage.htmMaybe it's the cynical pills but i can't see how it could be 'better' unless it's 'better' in the same way that my car is sounds and drives 'better' after a damn good valet* Yeah i know, cheap shot but i couldn't resist
Reply:Hey Fred,I run 100% Argon & if I ran out, I have a small bottle(40cf) of C2(98Ar2CO2) that I could use as a substitute.DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:Originally Posted by yorkiepapHey Fred,I run 100% Argon & if I ran out, I have a small bottle(40cf) of C2(98Ar2CO2) that I could use as a substitute.Denny
Reply:Originally Posted by yorkiepapHey Fred,I run 100% Argon & if I ran out, I have a small bottle(40cf) of C2(98Ar2CO2) that I could use as a substitute.Denny
Reply:Can you do body work with regular wire and grind it down?Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Hey Gamble,I cannot fathom in any matter exactly what your question is & why you would even ask it........I mean, make me understand. You are on a welding forum, have 593 posts, supposedly regarding welding, & I presume, know autos are constructed with steel, & ask if you "can do body work with regular wire & grind it down". I, & others, have posted numerous threads/posts on auto welding & most of the variables associated from thin panel welding to whether you have to remove the ground wire from the battery & every gamut in between. Did you read any of them???? Do you have enough experience welding to know the different metals & whether they can be welded together? Do you know what auto body material is formed from? Not everything on a vehicle is plastic, although it's getting there. If you have to ask such a question, I would strongly suggest a welding course.DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:I'm asking what is wrong with using regular steel wire on body panels? What is different with the silicone bronze wire? And why is it preferred?Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Hey Gamble,Ok....now that's a start. See, quite a difference in your questions. You're asking now the specifics..... you didn't ask that the first time. I still like to stress to posters to PLEASE BE SPECIFIC with a question. Be CLEAR & CONCISE as to exactly what you want to know.Welding auto sheetmetal can be a nightmare because it is quite thin....that is today compared to the sheetmetal used prior to 1960. When doing the inside floorpanels, kickpads, trunk panels, inner fenderwells, & all the associated underbody sheetmetal, generally MIG with ER70S-6 works quite well using .023 w/C25 & that is how I do it. Depending on experience, a good weldor can actually run some decent beads to perhaps 2" before having to stop to keep distortion to a minimum. Now, with the outer body panels, you cannot run any extended beads.....not gonna happen because of warpage & burnthrus. This is where SilBrz comes into play as it has a lower melting point, thus reducing warpage & generally will eliminate burnthru. It is used for "tacking" only.....no fillets. In addition, the real advantage is the fact it will not rust as does steel filler eventually. It is expensive as far as price between steel & SiBrz, although goes a long way with body panels & there is a higher fee using it. Another question that gets asked is what MIG welder to use. I use a Miller 130(110v).....nothing more is needed. I like it because I can really dial down the heat/wf for those paper-thin panels. I do a setup(heat/wf with cutoffs of the customers' panels) before starting EVERY job.The fellows I do resto's for, have no qualms regarding price & so far, all have found favor with the SilBrz attachments of body panels. These resto's go to a specialist in body work who uses lead to do the exterior finish prior to prep & then to the paint shop. Big $$$$$$ spent on these to those who demand perfection.Ok...I hope I have enlightened you as to the usage & methodology between the (2) fillers.DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back."
Reply:Denny, You say that you use the "SILBRZ" only for tacking. Are you going back and completing the seam with another weld, are you tacking until it is all welded, or doing something else?I am going to be doing a lot of body panel repairs on my 1970 Lemans and being a newbie at this I am looking for the best way to go. I have a Lincoln HD weldpak 100 if I am remembering correctly, I am sure that it is a 110v Lincoln, just not sure of the exact model. I do have gas capability with it, I just need to get a bottle of gas and install the Lincoln kit to convert it. Thanks,RussLast edited by russ69coupe; 01-09-2012 at 09:09 PM.Reason: punctuationRIP Mallory, we miss you.
Reply:Hey Russ,Like I posted in a previous response, the outer body panels are setup for a "butt" seam, & tacked every 4-6" to get fixed in place. You HAVE to use a backing for this type of attachment & reduce warping. I use varying lengths of 1.5" alum. angles clamped to the back of the seams to keep the seam nice & tight. Once I start & the panels are in place, I do a tack alternating location & use a wet towel to cool quickly. When I'm finished, the outer panels have a tack every 1/4". That is all that is needed as the body shop these vehicles go to use a lead filler to complete the seam sealing. It is expensive, although the finish is flawless. For the average hobbyist, you can revert to JB weld to lay a good sealing filler to complete the seam. I did that with my sons' SB Z71 when we replaced the rr wheel wells & cab corners. Came out excellent& my son was quite satisfied. Get a bottle of 100% Ar & since you have a 110v welder, get the .023 SIlBrz wire as it is much easier to use. BTW.....as always.....CLEAN metal.DennyComplete Welding/Machine/Fab. ShopMobile UnitFinally retired*Moderator*"A man's word is his honor...without honor there is nothing.""Words are like bullets.... Once they leave your muzzle, you cannot get them back." |
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发表于 2021-8-31 23:19:23