Welding a diesel tank

admin

One of my best customers who owns a trucking business & I have one of his trailers in the shop right now asked me if I could weld a diesel tank.  He said it got punctured on the bottom.  What would be the best way to keep it from going boom.  He said his driver will take it off this weekend & bring it in Monday.  Will purging it with argon keep it from blasting off.  I will not touch a gas tank but this still makes me think how I don't want to be found all over my shop.Miller XMT 304 cc/cvMiller 12RC w/ 15ft Tweco #4 GunMiller 30A SpoolgunCustom Thermal Arc TA 10/270 Generator "Thermal Star"Smith oxy/acet-propane with weld, cut & rosebud tipsAnd of course grinders, chop saws, hand tools
Reply:No need to purge it. Drain it out and rinse out with hot water. Throw a blower in it to dry it out if you want. Other than that just leave it open during welding and your good to go.   I have done countless tanks like this. If you really have concerns you could put an atmosphere inspection meter in it to test for LEL 's. IMHO thats not needed with diesel after a cleaning. Have fun!
Reply:Since its off the truck, make sure its completely dry. Clean it out very well, then, then, light a match and throw it in. If she blows, meh, to bad. If not, she is good to go. Anyway, it will not "explode" it will most likely burn, fast. Its not under pressure. Plus, when welding it, keep air blowing through it. Quite safe, when done the right way. Take your time.
Reply:Drain it, rinse it with hot water and a drop of Dawn. Then place it on its side with the fill opening at the highest spot and fill with water. Now i would feel comfortable welding and cutting.Fireman BillHH 210 MVPMM 211 Spoolmate 100Lotas LTP5000D PlasmaOxy/Accet (Victor)Wards AC/DC buzz box30 ton old hyd pressA few brand name toolsA bunch of cheap toolsA wife to worry me and4 dogs to supervise me
Reply:At a friends tank building and repair company, they steams clean the tanks and let them and then let them dry. They've been in business since '75 without an accident yet.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by osweldOne of my best customers who owns a trucking business & I have one of his trailers in the shop right now asked me if I could weld a diesel tank.  He said it got punctured on the bottom.  What would be the best way to keep it from going boom.  He said his driver will take it off this weekend & bring it in Monday.  Will purging it with argon keep it from blasting off.  I will not touch a gas tank but this still makes me think how I don't want to be found all over my shop.
Reply:I have done both gas or diesel tanks with argon purging threw them, its cheap insurance plus it helps when welding a crack or hole up to not have oxygen on the back side of them weld or trying to come threw.
Reply:You did not state whether the tank is aluminum or steel, and that would make some difference as to whether you want to use Argon or CO2.If the tank is steel, you could use either Argon or CO2 as the inert gas displacement media.  If the tank is aluminum you really want to use only Argon.I agree that the tank should ideally be washed/steamed to remove as much volatile oil as possible.If the tank is steel, CO2 is good as the inert displacement gas.  Buy a brick or tile of dry ice and toss it inside the tank about 15 minutes prior to commencing the welding.  Leave the tank open to atmosphere but try to place the openings as high as you can (elevation respective to the rest of the tank) so that the heavy CO2 layer forms from the bottom and displaces the lighter air out the higher opening as the dry ice sublimates into its gaseous state.
Reply:Originally Posted by walkerweldYou did not state whether the tank is aluminum or steel, and that would make some difference as to whether you want to use Argon or CO2.If the tank is steel, you could use either Argon or CO2 as the inert gas displacement media.  If the tank is aluminum you really want to use only Argon.I agree that the tank should ideally be washed/steamed to remove as much volatile oil as possible.If the tank is steel, CO2 is good as the inert displacement gas.  Buy a brick or tile of dry ice and toss it inside the tank about 15 minutes prior to commencing the welding.  Leave the tank open to atmosphere but try to place the openings as high as you can (elevation respective to the rest of the tank) so that the heavy CO2 layer forms from the bottom and displaces the lighter air out the higher opening as the dry ice sublimates into its gaseous state.
Reply:lots of great information here!!!  an excellent example of how some people who have probably never touched a diesel tank let alone weld on one will hop right in and volunteer their two cents worth of bad info.  what do you suppose they do when they weld on a diesel tank that is built off of the hull plating of a boat?   cut it out? lolask the guy that's welded on them if he cares if it's aluminum or steel.  right.meant to exclude that second poster who has obviously been down this road.Last edited by injunctiverelief; 02-23-2014 at 11:27 AM.
Reply:I have converted a few propane tanks to various needs with no high drama – just filled them with water, used a grinder to cut out my shapes, emptied the tank, and welded away with wild abandonment!
Reply:I do them all the time. I pressure wash the piss out of them with zep good, drain em good, prep the area to my liking then warm it with a torch to dry the backside of where im working and have at it what ever process it calls for. Gas tanks  different story. I stay away. Not worth it, one went off on me and never again.I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:I agree steam cleaning would be great and never blow air inside while welding. Yes a diesel tank will explode if heated and with lots of power mind you. I have welded 3 transport tanks buy rinsing with hot water and a drop of Dawn then filling with water which lessons the available area for the LEL to be reached hence much less power when there is much less volume and cools any molten metal as it falls. I would also agree after steam cleaning the dry ice would be the safest thing to use. Many welders will not touch a used fuel vessel and i cant say i blame them. The saying i did it and nothing happened to me is like saying i loaded 5 shells in a six shot revolver spun the cylinder and then pulled the trigger. It didn't go off, why because you got lucky this time.Fireman BillHH 210 MVPMM 211 Spoolmate 100Lotas LTP5000D PlasmaOxy/Accet (Victor)Wards AC/DC buzz box30 ton old hyd pressA few brand name toolsA bunch of cheap toolsA wife to worry me and4 dogs to supervise me
Reply:Originally Posted by Fireman BillI agree steam cleaning would be great and never blow air inside while welding. Yes a diesel tank will explode if heated and with lots of power mind you. I have welded 3 transport tanks buy rinsing with hot water and a drop of Dawn then filling with water which lessons the available area for the LEL to be reached hence much less power when there is much less volume and cools any molten metal as it falls. I would also agree after steam cleaning the dry ice would be the safest thing to use. Many welders will not touch a used fuel vessel and i cant say i blame them. The saying i did it and nothing happened to me is like saying i loaded 5 shells in a six shot revolver spun the cylinder and then pulled the trigger. It didn't go off, why because you got lucky this time.
Reply:We tell the customer to bring it as clean as possible (usually come damn near spotless when we tell them this), if it's not adequate rinse inside it with water and open all the plugs/holes.  Diesel ignites under pressure, won't go boom if it's opened up.  We've done hundreds of them,  never had one ignite.  My grandfather welded a steel gas tank once, he told the guy to fill it up with gas, then my grandfather removed the cap, lit the fumes, and welded the crack in the side of the tank with a stick welder while fuel was leaking out of the crack.  Everyone else in the shop was standing across the street.  It worked!  I'd never try it or recommend it though, this was in the 60's long before modern vapor recovery systems and such.We don't touch gas tanks now though, insurance company won't let us.
Reply:I don't think I've ever posted how I purge gas tanks, it's what I learned in propane classes. I clean the tank first.4.1.1 Pressurization Purging (Blowdown)Pressurization purging (blowdown) is the process of introducing a purge gas to increase the system pressure to 15 psig, followed by depressurization to the atmosphere. The pressurization purging method is considered superior to other purge methods.This procedure empties the vessel and purges the vapor space in the same process (e.g., pressure vessels, manifolds, and entire plant or platform process systems).A minimum of four pressure-depressure cycles at 15 psig will be required to purge a vessel at atmospheric pressure.If a system filled with a combustible liquid needs to be emptied and then purged, a purge gas may be applied to the vapor space at a pressure consistent with equipment design limitations.Here is where I found this particular description.https://hssestorage.blob.core.window...%20Purging.pdfDave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeWell ive probably done over a 100 and no problems, and i got a black cloud tied to my bumper. Its not that sketchy at all. Excercise common sense and do as you did, if your not sure about something ask. And you did.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveI don't think I've ever posted how I purge gas tanks, it's what I learned in propane classes. I clean the tank first.4.1.1 Pressurization Purging (Blowdown)Pressurization purging (blowdown) is the process of introducing a purge gas to increase the system pressure to 15 psig, followed by depressurization to the atmosphere. The pressurization purging method is considered superior to other purge methods.This procedure empties the vessel and purges the vapor space in the same process (e.g., pressure vessels, manifolds, and entire plant or platform process systems).A minimum of four pressure-depressure cycles at 15 psig will be required to purge a vessel at atmospheric pressure.If a system filled with a combustible liquid needs to be emptied and then purged, a purge gas may be applied to the vapor space at a pressure consistent with equipment design limitations.Here is where I found this particular description.https://hssestorage.blob.core.window...%20Purging.pdf
Reply:WelderMike - it just means to pressure the tank up with a purging gas (low pressure), let it out, do it at least 4 times So you have a black cloud of doom tied to your bumper? I think I see you on the left Last edited by MinnesotaDave; 02-23-2014 at 01:22 PM.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by 7A749HEY!Posting Graphic content of gastrointestinal discharge is prohibited, yada, yada, yada....
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeHuh  Sounds like what happens if you hold in a fart to long.
Reply:Originally Posted by gnm109Tell us more....
Reply:Mike......um what? Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeOk.....here goes. Your gromit is only rated for 15psi like Dave noted. So.....if you  keep holding in farts that are approximately 5psi each, that start building up in layers, sort of like a lasagna lets just say, by the time you get to your fourth layer you have over exceded the max pressure of the 15psi gromit you have behind you. So usually when this occurs you will have a unexpected combustion. Usually at the worse place and time. So hence being, every third layer through the pressure cycle you must release one into the atmosphere for safety purposes of gromit blowout while you getting a blow job. I think thats what Dave was getting at. I just put it into lamens terms for the rest of us. Hope that helped bud.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveMike......um what?It's all Mike's fault Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Dave if i was wrong on something you could have just Pm'd me bro. You didnt have to call me out on a public forum. Jeesh, some friend you turned out to be. That was cold bro, now i know why you live in Minnesota. Your probably walking around in flip flops right now with no shirt on dinking a cold beer.  I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:Is that train wreck in Russia, or did the photo just get mirror imaged?......cause all the vowels are backward.Anyhow, this here tank that needs welding.....is this an actual tanker, or a portable tote tank (like small mom 'n pop stores have for fuel oil), or is this just a truck fuel tank?Cause I for some reason was thinking that we were discussing a truck fuel tank of something around 200 gallons or less.
Reply:Now that's funny...I don't care what level of education you have.
Reply:Originally Posted by TSCGG13If it was me, I would Hotsy the thing out...  and then once I got ready to weld I'd probably let some CO2 run into it... it won't "explode", just burn if anything.
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeDave if i was wrong on something you could have just Pm'd me bro. You didnt have to call me out on a public forum. Jeesh, some friend you turned out to be. That was cold bro, now i know why you live in Minnesota. Your probably walking around in flip flops right now with no shirt on dinking a cold beer.
Reply:Originally Posted by gnm109Thanks for that fine explanation. Another question, I've always wondered......is flatulence supposed to be.....ahh, how shall I put ths......ahhhh wet?
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeNo, never and no lumps either. That would fall into a completley different catagory called a "shart". Maybe Dave will chime in, he could probably break it down a little more scientifically than me.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveHaha! Just got back from welding down in the shop - walked up in shirtsleeves and my welding hat - temp is zero with 20 below wind chill
Reply:Originally Posted by walkerweldIs that train wreck in Russia, or did the photo just get mirror imaged?......cause all the vowels are backward.Anyhow, this here tank that needs welding.....is this an actual tanker, or a portable tote tank (like small mom 'n pop stores have for fuel oil), or is this just a truck fuel tank?Cause I for some reason was thinking that we were discussing a truck fuel tank of something around 200 gallons or less.
Reply:Originally Posted by lars66Don't be modest Dave... tell him about the snow too.
Reply:WelderMike: that gas tank you had a problem with probably scared you straight, it would have me. I know of a welder in my home town that was killed while welding on some fire escape stairs and below him was a waste oil tank 500 gallons i think. Well it blew and he was launched 40 feet into the other parking lot. Come to find out the tank had some gasoline in it. Not sure if it was just from motor oil or gas poured in. I ran the fire call and it had some tremendous power.Fireman BillHH 210 MVPMM 211 Spoolmate 100Lotas LTP5000D PlasmaOxy/Accet (Victor)Wards AC/DC buzz box30 ton old hyd pressA few brand name toolsA bunch of cheap toolsA wife to worry me and4 dogs to supervise me
Reply:Whether you are welding a gasoline tank or a Diesel tank or even whether it's large or small, there is always a possibility that it will blow and take you with it. I took a motorcycle gas tank to a weld shop many years ago and the fellow spent a couple of hours cleaning it. First, he stuck an exhaust pipe from his car in it for a half hour. Then he steam cleaned it out. After that he filled it with water and left the cap off. He touched it with his torch and flame shot out of the filler hole 20 feet in the air. After a few more pops, he was able to weld it. It scared the hell out of both of us. I'm well aware that there are many, many skilled welders who have welded fuel tanks successfully with no problem at all, but you just never know.Miller Millermatic 252Miller Syncrowave 200Liincoln AC-DC 225Victor O-A Set
Reply:Years ago I was welding on a semi lowboy tractor gas I had the prettiest blue flame dancing on the vent think that doesn't send chills up you're back. J. R. Bauer
Reply:LOL!Years ago in a Pennsylvania junkyard, they would take old oilfield storage tanks, tip them over, throw a gas soaked burning rag in.Then they would cut them up with a torch, as long as the crap inside is burning, no explosion!Another time I watched a guy with a chipping hammer tapping a dirt encrusted home fuel oil tank looking for rust holes, when he found one, he ground it out, turned on the air line he had inside, then stick welded the holes.His theory was if the oxygen level is too high, then an explosion will NOT occur do to the mixture being too lean.
Reply:Originally Posted by drujininLOL!Years ago in a Pennsylvania junkyard, they would take old oilfield storage tanks, tip them over, throw a gas soaked burning rag in.Then they would cut them up with a torch, as long as the crap inside is burning, no explosion!Another time I watched a guy with a chipping hammer tapping a dirt encrusted home fuel oil tank looking for rust holes, when he found one, he ground it out, turned on the air line he had inside, then stick welded the holes.His theory was if the oxygen level is too high, then an explosion will NOT occur do to the mixture being too lean.
Reply:Well I survived.  I didn't clean it out either.  It was an aluminum tank.  I figured out how many cubic ft it was then I purged it at 60 cfh for at least 18 minutes it only needed about 17 though.  Then I kept purging at 30 cfh while welding. It smoked a little out the vent but no ignition.Miller XMT 304 cc/cvMiller 12RC w/ 15ft Tweco #4 GunMiller 30A SpoolgunCustom Thermal Arc TA 10/270 Generator "Thermal Star"Smith oxy/acet-propane with weld, cut & rosebud tipsAnd of course grinders, chop saws, hand tools
Reply:Originally Posted by osweldWell I survived.  I didn't clean it out either.  It was an aluminum tank.  I figured out how many cubic ft it was then I purged it at 60 cfh for at least 18 minutes it only needed about 17 though.  Then I kept purging at 30 cfh while welding. It smoked a little out the vent but no ignition.
Reply:Originally Posted by weldermikeGreat man, see no biggie with diesel just a little stinky. Stay away from gas tanks tho, different animal!!!! What process, spool or tig? Any pics by chance, we love pics! Glad it worked out and you made some $moolah$ and more important lesson learned in the back of your mind.
Reply:I didn't get a pic after welding the customer came by as soon as I unhooked the argon hose.Miller XMT 304 cc/cvMiller 12RC w/ 15ft Tweco #4 GunMiller 30A SpoolgunCustom Thermal Arc TA 10/270 Generator "Thermal Star"Smith oxy/acet-propane with weld, cut & rosebud tipsAnd of course grinders, chop saws, hand tools
Reply:Miller XMT 304 cc/cvMiller 12RC w/ 15ft Tweco #4 GunMiller 30A SpoolgunCustom Thermal Arc TA 10/270 Generator "Thermal Star"Smith oxy/acet-propane with weld, cut & rosebud tipsAnd of course grinders, chop saws, hand tools
Reply:Did you check it for a leak? I always weld the crack up even when adding a additional plate over the top, which I probably would not have added here.Glad you got it knocked out!
Reply:Originally Posted by kkustomzDid you check it for a leak? I always weld the crack up even when adding a additional plate over the top, which I probably would not have added here.Glad you got it knocked out!
Reply:rinse like you're life depends on it,then put some dry ice in the tank,a hose from your exhaust pipe on your welding truck into the tank will give you all the inert gas you'll need..then,have you're wife weld it out..face all times with a positive mental attitude,then and only then will you have done your best.
Reply:Spool gun??? And it did not leak?