Gambles welding progress. Share your secrets.

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Well you have all seen some of my previous work so I figured I would start 1 thread and post pics as I progress with your help.Diversion 180Red thoriated 3/32Gas lens #8 cup1/8th stickout (ish)14cfh 100% argonMax set at 70ampsI watched one of my videos I have saved and the guy said if you touch the filler to the tungsten to cut it 1/2" and try again. I have not been doing this, I have just been grinding off the filler rod and still using it. Is this bad practice?So I did cut it 1/2" and also used a .025 copper backing plate. This was on .063 mild steel, wire brushed, sprayed with acetone and wiped off.I have a feel this will be a long thread for me to learn until I can sign up for classes next year at a local community college.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:I think I would try to get ahold of some thicker steel to practice on, and draw some straight lines on there to follow.  This will teach you to lay straight beads and also maximize the amount of beads you can get with the surface area you have.
Reply:Wire brushing will not remove mill scale from steel. For steel this thin you need to sand the surface if it has mill scale on it.I only really see 3 welds that you came close on your heat in those picts for the most part. The others are either too hot or too cold.Pict #1 the weld on the left, at least at the begining. it got cold near the end. You needed to add filler more consistantly and more frequently to tighten up the "dimes". In Pict #2 the full bead on the upper right was better, especially maybe the last 1/2" or so before you stopped, though the stop needed work. you still probably could have added filler a bit more frequently. Your consistancy was definately better.Pict #3 You were close in the middle, but a tad bit too hot. That's why you don't have the nice clean dimes you had in #2.Are you letting the practice piece cool down between welds? With material this thin, you don't want the extra heat from a previous weld to work against you at this point. If you can't hold the metal in your bare hands, it's probably too hot to run another bead.The big secret... Hood time, and lots of it. It's the only way you will get this down. Do this over and over and over and over... until you are sick of it, then do it  over and over and over and over again. You need to be able to make these adjustments without thinking about them. You might find 1/8" a bit easier at this point because it's more forgiving and you will see results faster. Then go back to this thickness and apply what you learned that worked on 1/8" and refine it..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Some good info HERE.Look under "View TIG Hints & Tips »"
Reply:Also Jody at weldingtipsandtricks.com has some nice videos that help also.I just picked up the tig finger.....better than sliced bread
Reply:that brown color outside the beads is corrosion.. clean the metal better..
Reply:Don't waste your time practicing on a single plate.  If I were you, I would be practicing on joing plates via the good'ol reliable lap-T-corner and butt joint!
Reply:DSW, yes I wasn't letting it cool, I was just going 1 after another.Here are some I did tonight. 15cfh, red tungsten, 79amps max. 1/16th filler. #8 gas lens, 2 pieces of 16g mild steel wire brushed lightly and used a 1/16th copper backing plate.A closer lookOutside cornerFrom what I have noticed it seems like it takes a lot less amperage to do outside corner joints.Back side of the plate left handed.I tried to do a T joint but didn't have good luck at all. I tried a farther stick out and still had terrible luck, so I'm going to keep trying.I put my lid on 10 - 10.5 shade, but it still seems to be hard to see unless I give the pedal a better push. I'm going to see what the reviews are on the lincoln helmet and look into a new lid.Someone mentioned something to me about a gold lens. Any info on this?Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:look up walking the cup for the t joint on youtubeI forgot how to change this.
Reply:Originally Posted by LawsonWeldingLLClook up walking the cup for the t joint on youtube
Reply:I agree with Jody Collier that using aluminum to practice tig welding is ideal. Aluminum magnifies any problems with technique and set up. Plus you don't have to deal with mill scale. Aluminum allows for multiple passes and stacking without having to clean up after each weld.What I did was get myself a 12 x 12, 1/8 thick piece of aluminum and just started welding. Went through many pieces of aluminum and it got me to the point that I could be happy with any welds I do on any material.  I then picked a product that I could sell while practicing my welding. I decided to make something that someone could use. I won't say what I build but it sells and I make some quick cash with it when I need it.  The welds need to be good so I concentrate on getting them as perfect as possible and makes practice more of a challenge. Makes me try harder to get that good looking weld.  Getting paid to practice is more fun than just practicing for sure!
Reply:You're getting there man!! ... But youre still adding too much filler to not enough heat...[Account Abandoned 8/8/16 Please Do Not Attempt Contact Or Expect A Reply]. See you on YouTube! -ChuckE2009
Reply:Originally Posted by StevefromOhioI agree with Jody Collier that using aluminum to practice tig welding is ideal. Aluminum magnifies any problems with technique and set up. Plus you don't have to deal with mill scale. Aluminum allows for multiple passes and stacking without having to clean up after each weld.What I did was get myself a 12 x 12, 1/8 thick piece of aluminum and just started welding. Went through many pieces of aluminum and it got me to the point that I could be happy with any welds I do on any material.
Reply:What is the silicone bronze for?Did a rod on aluminum tonight, all the settings were the same, gas was 17cfh, 90 amps, .063 6061 with 4043 filler.I did 1 short bead and a few long ones just broke the picture up to get more detail.My "test" on a cold piece, I didn't let it cool inbetween welds either.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Originally Posted by StevefromOhioI agree with Jody Collier that using aluminum to practice tig welding is ideal. Aluminum magnifies any problems with technique and set up. Plus you don't have to deal with mill scale. Aluminum allows for multiple passes and stacking without having to clean up after each weld.What I did was get myself a 12 x 12, 1/8 thick piece of aluminum and just started welding. Went through many pieces of aluminum and it got me to the point that I could be happy with any welds I do on any material.  I then picked a product that I could sell while practicing my welding. I decided to make something that someone could use. I won't say what I build but it sells and I make some quick cash with it when I need it.  The welds need to be good so I concentrate on getting them as perfect as possible and makes practice more of a challenge. Makes me try harder to get that good looking weld.  Getting paid to practice is more fun than just practicing for sure!
Reply:Originally Posted by fire1hawkI'm curious. How do you sell something like that? Craigslist I assume. Do you need a vendors license?
Reply:Hey those are looking really good.  I don't understand why the heat seems to have such a wide range in your second picture, though, if they were all with the same settings.  The 2nd one down looks hot, but the 4th one down looks cold.  What order did you run those in?__David Hillman
Reply:I didn't let the piece cool, I just went one after another. I don't recall the order, but I think the bottom/cold one was the first one, I think.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Here is two of my best ones today.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:watch the torch angle , and walk the cup in that t joint run it fast do a u tube search for itI forgot how to change this.
Reply:its not just resting the cup on there and dragging, its rotating your wrist roughly 10 degrees off 45 to 35 up to 55 and walking the cup along the joint with steel, u slam the weld in without overheating the workpiece ties in beautifully, all in all imo makes one of the nicest fillet welds available unless u have pulsing options. sorry for the delayed response to the question just notices your response.I forgot how to change this.
Reply:You are concentrating too much heat onto the upper plate with the lap joints and not getting enough on the lower one. Thats why the bottoms look cold. I usually suggest students try and run the puddle on the lower plate rather than try to do both at once when starting out. Try and run the puddle right at the base of the upper plate on the lower one and wash the puddle up onto the upper one with a small bit of movement rather than trying to melt the upper plate like  you are currently. The one on the right looks the best, but it is too wide. You probably mashed down and tried to blow thru the upper plate rather than get the puddle started on the lower one. For a lap joint, you should just barely melt the upper edge of the upper plate. It's like a T joint with a very short vertical leg..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by LawsonWeldingLLCwatch the torch angle , and walk the cup in that t joint run it fast do a u tube search for it
Reply:Originally Posted by GambleCan you walk the cup with a gas lens or should I switch back to a regular cup?With a lap joint do I keep the torch steady or should I move it around a little from top to bottom once it melts?Too wide meaning too much heat?I'll cut up some more metal and do a few more tomorrow or this weekend. Thanks
Reply:Here are some I did tonight on .063 6061 aluminum (4043 1/16th filler) and 90 amps very max which I didn't use all of.I then cut the pieces and tried some butt and lap joints with this aluminum and it seems damn near impossible. Just kind of put holes in it. Maybe because I ran out of gas is my guess, but when I had gas they were awful. I also did some of these (if not all) using 3/32 2% (orange) ceriated which I think I like a whole lot better than thoriated. However I still have 12 pieces of red left so I'll use those before making the switch. Can I use orange on steels? I read somewhere that orange may be the replacement for red with a ?? at the end.A new helmet helps out a **** ton!Onto another question until I get another bottle of argon can I still weld for practice? (just butt,lap and flat stock?)And finally, do these welds look ok? Some of them I saw no penetration on the other side, the flatter welds I saw a little.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal DealerYes you can use orange for steel.  No you can not weld with no argon even for practice..063 alum is super thin at your level. I still don't see the heat control I'd want to see on your steel joints with 1/8' material. Trying to move on to thin alum at this point is pointless. You lack the basic skills to do alum in general and trying to do alum this thin won't get you anything but higher blood pressure and waste gas and material. You need to slow down and work on the basics step by step to get where you want to go.Your beads on the flat plate show a nice consistancy of adding filler. Overall they are getting better. The fact you were unable to run a simple lap joint previously tells me you still have a long way to go learning heat control however. Stick with the steel and keep working on it. It will be easier trust me. This is not something that you will get quickly. As we've mentioned before, you can expect this to take a couple hundred hours of practice..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:It looks like you are making good progress.For steel, Miller has a great article where they recommend 2% Ceriated.I started welding this past spring and still consider myself a newbie.  My main interest is in bicycle frames and as such I have been working with thin materials.  In addition with all welding, heat control is key and as such welding thin materials is good practice.  Another advantage in thin materials is that you don't burn your hands as much and the materials are generally less expensive.Make sure to use 100% argon and get a gas lens.  With a gas lens you can turn down the flow to around 10 cfh and get more welds out of a tank.
Reply:I am using a gas lens.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Ok got a fresh tank of argon and did some more tonight.97amps, 2% ceriated and I went back to a standard cup #7 and not the gas lens this time around.Lap jointFirst attempt at walking the cup on a angled pieceAnd after a quick brushI find that I get better results with ) shapes of the torch or circle shapes. Is this normal or are you not supposed to?Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:I don't see any sign of surface prep on these. You want to grind/sand off the mill scale on the steel.Your lap is getting better, but still has a way to go. You started out fairly good and then ended up with a lot of undercut on the top edge. You are still melting back into the upper plate farther than I'd want to see and the bead is still a bit large. Again... Heat control... I'd say you had a bit too much heat overall from the puddle size. I would rather see that, then the last set of steel lap joints where you didn't get the two plates fused the whole way. All you have to do once you get a bit better, is to back off just a tad and or speed up. Right now stick with what you are doing and work on consistancy. I'm also thinking you pulled the pudle a bit far out from the top plate there where the undercut is showing and then started to move it back there at the end. I also don't see the nice consistant filler add that it looked like you had on some of those alum beads the other day. Think about what you were doing different between the two and why.The T joint in the last pict is getting there as well. The pict is pretty blurry, so it's tough to make exact comments on it. The center looks like you are starting to get the idea.I don't personally like to make circles with the torch. I usually use a C shaped motion or maybe like a zig zag movement especially with T's..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:The first pic I did wire brush it, but I think it's time for a new brush or to hit it with the flap disc. So I'm supposed to make a C shape on the lap joint and butt joints as well?What exactly is undercut? I'm going to sears today to clean them out of their metal stock since it's 50% off and they close this week so I'll have more to come later today.Btw, I think I like the ceriated a lot better than thoriated. Not sure why, but maybe it just seems to melt a little faster.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:A wire brush is useless with mill scale. All you do is polish it. You must use an abrasive like a sanding disk or grinding wheel to remove mill scale on steel. Alum is different. You use a brush there rather than a sanding or abrasive wheel.Undercut is where you melt away the base metal and don't replace it with filler. Usually you see it on T's where the top leg had an undercut area like the bank of a stream, hence the name. As far as motion, thats a personal thing. What works for me may not work for you. There's not really a "right" way for the most part. Just what works for most people. I can do any number of motions for demonstration purposes, but I fall back on what I do best for myself. A lot of this would be a lot easier to watch you do it and show you how it;'s done. It's one of the reasons so many suggest classes rather than try to explain complex motions and such by typing. There are so may things I do all at once that it's tough to explain it well by typing. Arc length, amp control with the pedal, torch angle, where I'm adding filler, how I'm adding filler, how fast I'm moving, how fast I'm adding filler, where I'm establishing the puddle, what motion I'm using and so on. All of this is dependant on what the puddle is doing at that particular moment. What I do in the 1st 1/2" may be 100% different than what I'm doing 1" farther along and so on. Most of this I never even think about, I just do it and don't even realise what I did exactly because I can't see myself. I'm busy watching how the puddle is reacting and constantly making changes/corrections as I go.If you can get steel at a good price from Sears, go ahead. I'd strongly suggest you look into what you can get from a local stell supplier in lengths however. From what people have posted up in the past, you can almost get a 20' stick of steel for what HD/ Sears and other box stores want for 2 4' pieces. That would be the last place I'd go for material especially if I was paying for it for myself.Sorry to hear about your Sears. I'd be lost without my Sears Hardware and all the odd bits of misc stuff I can get from their hardware isle. I used to include tools, but lately their selection is poor and the newer tools are cr@p. Shame their huge Sears Hardware store is 40 minutes from my house. They used to have everything in stock as far as tools was concerened. Now they don't have quite as much as they once did but they've got the best hardware selection around as far as odd nuts, bolts and do hickies.Last edited by DSW; 09-28-2011 at 10:53 AM..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Sears is hurting me being that it's a few blocks from the house. When they didn't have it I went to lowes, go figure one day lowes by my house just shut their doors and didn't tell anyone. They leased the building until 2025 so I guess it's just going to be an empty spot for the next 14 years. I'm stuck with home depot and menards (yuck) now. So I did some more practice yesterday and used my flap wheel on my angle grinder because it's all I had available at the time and it came out shiny, but why is it I get a nicer looking bead when I don't clean it or I wire brush it vs when I used the flap disc. Look.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Anyone know why I get a nicer looking bead when I don't use the flap wheel and it's dirty?Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Wow that's weird,i would like to know why?
Reply:Talked to a friends boyfriend yesterday and he said he does some tig welding at work and I told him I get better looking welds on dirty metal and he said Yep, same thing happens to me and I don't know why.So anyone have any input?New hood came in yesterday, can't wait to try it out.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:For lap joints is some undercut ok? Or should you try to get none?Just did these 2 last night while trying out my new miller performance series helmet. HOLY AWESOME!I'm going to get back at it tonight, I've been a little busy.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:You don't want any undercut, even on a lap joint.  You shouldn't see the sharp edge that you are getting from the material melting away.  Tips from another beginner: try different sized filler rod, or you can twist two smaller wires together with a vise and a drill, or you can just push more filler into the puddle to a point.  How thick is the stuff that you are welding?  Is it still 0.063?I started with 11 gauge (0.125) CR steel.  All I do is hit the edges with a flap disc and wipe it off.  I used 1/16 filler with a 1/16 thoriated tungsten ground to a point.  Not the best beads, but it works for it's purpose and gets me practice.Last edited by kazlx; 10-11-2011 at 04:22 PM.
Reply:That stuff was 1/8th thick and 1/16th filler.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Take it with a grain of salt, but IMO, you need to add more filler faster.  The other thing that has helped me is torch angle.  I have to make myself keep the torch more vertical...because when you lay it back you preheat the metal you haven't got to yet and it melts too fast.Last edited by kazlx; 10-11-2011 at 04:27 PM.
Reply:Thanks for the tips. I cut up some pieces of aluminum last night and am attempting to make a small square box and practice outside joints. Why aluminum, because it's .053thick and I have a few extra pieces and I also switched to 1/16th ceriated for this.This is only 4" long, but normally can you do it all in one continuous bead without stopping? Regardless of the material? Also I read that people normally do root welds then go over it again, is this only on stainless or can this be applied to aluminum and mild as well?Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Yes, 4" would typically be done in one continuous bead.  From what I have seen a 36" piece of filler can get a good amount of bead done.  I think you get a little less from aluminum that you do with steel.  You wouldn't do a root pass on .050 material.  Just one and done.
Reply:Your alum is not too bad.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Originally Posted by kazlxYes, 4" would typically be done in one continuous bead.  From what I have seen a 36" piece of filler can get a good amount of bead done.  I think you get a little less from aluminum that you do with steel.  You wouldn't do a root pass on .050 material.  Just one and done.
Reply:1/8" lap joint. Same joint just took 2 pics.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:You're lap joint is improving. Still need to work on consistancy. You are still all over the place with speed and filler from the looks. You do look like your heat control is improving though. I wish I hadn't gotten tied up waiting for a customer this evening and could have made it to the tech school to grab some 1/8" at class tonight. I'll see if I've got any left from last term or if I took it all back and droped it in the scrap bin there. If I do I'll try to remember to run an 1/8" lap for you to get an idea..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:that would be great, thanks.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:1/8th butt joint. ceriated, 94amps max, 1/16th filler.Not my greatest but I'll do more tomorrow.Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer
Reply:Too cold. You're back sliding again. Your consistency was better the other day.Do yourself a favor and quit jumping all over the place like some drunk kangaroo on speed. Pick one material ( 1/8" steel ) and one joint ( flat lap joint) and keep doing it until you consistently get it right every time. Yes, it's boring and uninteresting, but thats the way you learn. Repetition. Every time you post you are changing materials, thickness, type of joint and so on. You are going to find it much harder to become good if you never do the same thing twice in a row. Keep it simple. Do 1/8" steel flat laps until you can do it in your sleep. Then do 1/8" steel flat T joints, then 1/8" flat outside corners, and finally bevel but joints. Then when you go to move on to horizontal joints and start the sequence all over again, you'll find it starts to go faster and faster.A good portion of almost anything is muscle memory. By doing the same thing over and over, you train your body to be able to repeat those motions without thought. It's much harder to "teach" your body to do this if you keep changing the instructions you are giving it.Edit: Oh I found a few pieces of 1/8" scrap, but they were used for someone to weld T joints. I'll have to try and cut them apart for material this weekend, or wait till Monday and try and get some new material to run a lap for you.Last edited by DSW; 10-21-2011 at 12:29 AM..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Sounds good, I'll get some more this weekend. Btw will a weld on the middle of a piece of 1/8th look the same as a lap joint on 1/8th? In case I run out of material I can just weld on what is left of what I have.Also why is it when I clean the material I get worse looking welds?Torchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer