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I have a student who wants to make something like this:Initially I'm thinking 5/8 rod" for the main bar with 3/8" points. I have seen square rod twisting, but having a hard time finding this type of procedureI'm drawing a blank on how or what to use to get the twist on this. We have a limited supplied shop, but have a torch, GMAW/SMAW/GTAW welders and an iron workerAnybody have any tips/thoughts?Thanks a lot!Last edited by moparman68; 08-30-2012 at 10:18 AM.
Reply:I would think an OA torch a vice and a flat bar/handle welded to the ends of the 2 pieces of round making a T=| like so then just twist and try to keep it straight cut off the flat bar/handle at the end
Reply:To twist material that large, you will either need a big propane rosebud, or some sort of forge.A simple forge isn't that hard to do. A hole dug in the ground with a steel pipe run into the bottom for air with a shop vac on blow would work. Coal would be my 1st choice, but you can make charcoal work in a pinch.I twisted some 3/8" round about 2 weeks ago in my little coal forge. My biggest issue was the fact I was limited in the length of stock I could get heated at one time. In your case that might not be that big a deal, since you might just want to do one section from one barb to the next at a time to keep things even. You heat the material and then secure it in a vise and twist it with either a twisting bar, or a wrench. I'm playing with the forge this weekend, and I'll try and take a few picts for you..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:What you're looking at there, I'm willing to bet, was done cold, in a very skookum hydraulic twister or big f'in lathe. Doing it cold allows for good consistency in the twists. If you heat a section, twist, heat another section, twist, it could get quite messy. The barbs where placed on one rod at consistent intervals, probably welded in place and then the whole thing twisted up. having said that, DSW is on the right page for DIY'ing it. Could dig a shallow trench and start burning wood. Keep adding so you get a chit load of coals. Bury the part in the coals and then start piling on the wood. Burn the sob for a good long time to get it cherry. You don't want it too hot/flimsy or you be very unhappy. Weld up a frame work to fit the heated piece in so you can twist it by hand with big levers and big students. May want to cool the two ends so they fit in the holder( think something like a collet or ratchet socket) and won't twist, thus being hard to keep a firm grip on. Another factor is keeping the piece in lengthwise tension. If there's not enough pull, it may not twist evenly or even loop over on you. They aren't long sections and I'd be tempted to do them individually as apposed to all one length and cut into sections. Easier to handle but you'll have to have the first one on hand to compare that the twists are similar. Forgetting heat all together, if you did them out of 1/2" HR you could build a jig and do it cold, by hand using leverage. Good learning exercise for the class. 5/8" might be doable too. But 1/2" hr with 1/4" barbs would look good. Be neat to use 1/4" SS. PC or paint the 1/2" twist and leave the barbs raw sanded SS.Any how, just my musings for the day. Post pic's of what ever you do.........oh, another of the cuff thought. Weld one end to a truck rim and hold the other end still some how. Bolt on the rim to a truck, on stands and put it in first gear. Very gently give it some gas. May work. Kinda like the redneck bowl making log lathe someone posted in another thread......Ok.....that's it..........200amp Air Liquide MIG, Hypertherm Plasma, Harris torches, Optrel helmet, Makita angle grinders, Pre-China Delta chop saw and belt sander, Miller leathers, shop made jigs etc, North- welders backpack.
Reply:This was discussed a while back. This thread has some attempts: http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=62567If I recall you can buy these decorative pieces pre-made but I'm not sure where.I'd imagine you'd space the premade barbs and then twist the two stands together together. As others have mentioned is his done cold. The barbs are likely made hot using a jig similar to this video:[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYc5dTbtJs4[/ame]
Reply:Would be fairly easy in aluminum miller 330a bp TIGmiller dynasty 200DX TIGmillermatic 185 MIGthermal dynamics cutmaster 101 plasma cuttersnap-on YA5550 plasma cutterhypertherm powermax 30 plasma cutterbaileigh CS225 cold sawetc....
Reply:Yeah, It was covered before. A lot of it done using tubing not solid metal bars. What you show might actually be tubing. You can buy it already in spiral wound shape. It just fits together without much force required. Probably could be tuned by heating if required. Probably can find all sorts of stuff if you search for tubing spiral twisted. http://www.metalbythefoot.com/online...steel-bar.html
Reply:I'm with CosmicRambler...It's probably tubing. It does look pretty cool, though.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:I would try the following, tack the two 5/8 rods together every foot to maybe 16" depending on how much spacing you want. Then either clamp one end in a large vice or tack it good to a table.Support the other end with another bench or jack stand. I bet you can twist it at each tack relatively easy with a large pipe wrench and a cheater bar. Not sure it will work but that is what I would try. I would try it cold. Hot rolled bar will usually yield pretty well. When you twist make sure you twist and not bend down. You really only need about a half of a turn between each tack to get the effect. As for the barbs, I would leave my 3/8 bar long , tack it to the main bars with about 1 1/2 inces sticking out and then heat it and wrap to make the barb and just cut off when done , too length, gring the ends to sharp point if desired. Might just try this myself for the hell of it. Edit, after looking at the pictures again I guess you would have to apply the barbs before twisting the main rods.Last edited by kolot; 08-30-2012 at 10:36 PM."Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DCMillermatic 251 Syncrowave 300 30A spoolgunLincoln MP210Hypertherm 45(2) LN 25(2) Lincoln Weldanpower 225 CV(4) SA200 1 short hood SA250 SAM 400
Reply:Get a hold of 66cummins over at dieselbombers.com here's the thread:http://www.dieselbombers.com/show-te...ache-rack.htmlI scanned the thread but I don't think he every disclosed how he made the wire.
Reply:5/8" is pretty tough to twist. I can do single 5/8 square manually with a 4 foot lever. The biggest thing you need is a stout work surface to mount things to. build a device to hold the end of the two tubes welded together that will let it slide , but not twist ( like a square hole, then weld your bars to a square rod) At teh other end use an old truck transmission and attach the other ends of the bar to the yoke. Put a lever on the input shaft and start turning until your desired twist is achieved.
Reply:What about using a tubing bender to make springs and then pulling the springs apart to create the wire? I can't think of how you might control the pulling, but once you have two identical springs you pull the same distance on both and then fit together .... Reason I suggest this might be the method is that the barbs look like they were put through a tubing bender, so he's got access to one.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:Get yourself a dozen fire bricks and propane asphalt torch. Need a long skinny forge? Stack the bricks long and skinny.You didn't build that.'85 Miller AEAD-200LE
Reply:Originally Posted by smithboyWhat about using a tubing bender to make springs and then pulling the springs apart to create the wire? I can't think of how you might control the pulling, but once you have two identical springs you pull the same distance on both and then fit together .... Reason I suggest this might be the method is that the barbs look like they were put through a tubing bender, so he's got access to one.
Reply:I want to teach the kids how to actually build things. I know you can always find somebody that makes and sells it, but I want to get these kids in the mindset of, "why buy it if I can build it myself." Then they can be the ones building items and selling them.I know the time vs. money argument can come into play, but if nobody ever shows them how to build something, I just teaches dependency upon finding an easy way out. If they never find it they either give up or take it to somebody else.Forhire-I did some searching yesterday after I posted ( I know shame shame should of looked before) and found both of thsoe articles. The original pic I posted is of 66cummins actual rack. i did message him and he said his buddy does it all by hand.I think we are going to be build a picket twister that way we can do round and square bars. Ornamental iron is big around here and I can't believe the teacher that was here before me never pursued it. However, I found this beauty buried in the back storage last night, now I just have to get the school to let me hook it up. Thank you for all that post here, I use this website everyday for ideas and help in looking for ideas to help teach these kids.Last edited by moparman68; 08-31-2012 at 11:47 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by forhireThe barbs are likely made hot using a jig similar to this video:
Reply:In the shop, I've got a ring roller made with a gear reduction box(1500:1, I think. Pretty over kill) that can twist bar stock. Haven't done 5/8", but 1/2" cold rolled is like butter. This thing won't stop for anything once it gets going, like a lathe. We welded up sockets to hold square stock in it. Tail slides to fit different size ring, cone and coil mandrels.
Reply:Nice forge. reminds me of the one they had at the Jr high when I took shop. Probably can be set up to run either propane or natural gas.I call 1st dibbs! If they won't let you hook it up, let me know and I'll come take it off their hands to save them having to store something they'll never use....No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:thats awesometrailblazer 302 spoolmatic 25a with wc-24thermal arc 161s tig rigmillermatic 200dialarc 250 hf tig rig with spool gun and boxand wanting more......
Reply:Originally Posted by moparman68need pics!
Reply:Looks really comfortable to back into while loading the truck bed. Ouch!TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Neat idea, might be a little dangerous to clean that back window though. ha ha....---No good deed goes unpunished---
Reply:im not certain, but that looks to be an old johnson forge, you may be able to find some tech info on them here http://www.johnsongas.com/industrial/frn-forge.aspso long as your teaching them, if its something thats commercially available, i would buy one, show it to them and say we're going to learn to make it. i'm firmly of the opinion that its important to know how to make something, but also important to know when its better to buy on instead. having one gives a more tactile impression than a picture does, being able to hold it and look at it from all angles allows you to see how its made, and notice nuances that may not be visible in the picture. for example its still up in the air about whether its made from tubing or solid stock. later on they can decide whether to make it themselves or not, but knowing whats available is a very valuable asset and takes a lot of effort to keep up with. im not talking just about ornamental stuff by any means, i mean keeping up with new trends and new equipment. the more i think about it, this seems like a really good teaching project, it seems like a really good way to combine a lot fabrication techniques, equipment(new, very old as well as making your own equipment when needed) and problem solving.
Reply:Originally Posted by rusty rippleso long as your teaching them, if its something thats commercially available, i would buy one, show it to them and say we're going to learn to make it. i'm firmly of the opinion that its important to know how to make something, but also important to know when its better to buy on instead. having one gives a more tactile impression than a picture does, being able to hold it and look at it from all angles allows you to see how its made, and notice nuances that may not be visible in the picture. for example its still up in the air about whether its made from tubing or solid stock. later on they can decide whether to make it themselves or not, but knowing whats available is a very valuable asset and takes a lot of effort to keep up with. im not talking just about ornamental stuff by any means, i mean keeping up with new trends and new equipment. .
Reply:http://www.cavecreekdesigns.com/catalog.php?category=62 i have found a site that i will admire the work they put in this stuff they figured out how to do the barb and it looks awsome. you might email them they might let you in on how they make it.trailblazer 302 spoolmatic 25a with wc-24thermal arc 161s tig rigmillermatic 200dialarc 250 hf tig rig with spool gun and boxand wanting more...... |
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发表于 2021-8-31 23:18:19