Anyone else tired of chain LWS retailers?

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Was at Praxair, Airgas and Matheson today, looking for the 8 or 10lb Lincoln Excalibur 7018's.  All three stores only had their "house brand" crap (Radnor, Prostar etc....). Okay, I get it, they don't want to sell the other good brands, I can live with that (sort of). What I can't stand is the fact  that not one of those three chain stores lists the prices on the shelves or the products themselves!!!! It's so frustrating having to ask a clerk, "hey how much is this? How much is that? What about these?" Etc.....   I told the guy at Praxair that THIS is the reason now why I'll buy exclusively from the internet!  He agreed with me and told me that "everybody" complains about that fact.  At least the mom and pop LWS still lists prices, they're just twice the distance from my house. Okay, I'm don't bitching.  Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller  625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita  Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:yup. Same problems. Except my local chain stores just dont want to give you the time of day unless you are a mega account.Millermatic 252millermatic 175miller 300 Thunderboltlincoln ranger 250smith torcheslots of bfh'sIf it dont fit get a bigger hammer
Reply:Another brilliant business technique.  Get a choke-hold on the local distribution market.  Then off-shore the production of as much of the product as you can.  Make numbers and reap dollars."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:As far as not having things priced, it's pretty common with places that sell to contractors. #1 not everyone pays the same prices. It's not at all uncommon for the company that is doing huge volumes of business to get better pricing than the small guy who does on;y a few hundred. In many places, walk off the street and don't have an account, you  end up paying manufacturers list even if they discount to every contractor. I know many places that do post up prices they always post list. That allows guys to add a markup on materials they buy and make it hard for the walk in customer to show the contractor is upping the price. Very common with things like plumbing or electrical supplies. I know I walked into an Airgas store near me looking for a few things the shop I usually use doesn't stock. I actually had had one of the counter guys in the welding class at night the previous term. He recognized me and gave me a better price ( most likely hoping I'll direct students in for their gear) vs what I'd have paid as a normal walk in customer. Price I paid was not the shelf price.One other thing to keep in mind on price. Many companies have accounts. They send in Joe Welder to get what he needs for the job, or Willy swings by to grab another cylinder for the company truck because he ran out. These guys could care less what things cost. That's often why places have all sorts of "impulse" items out, like gloves, hoods, cheap tools etc. They figure since the guy in the shop isn't paying, they won't bat an eye on picking up a new hood because the batteries in theirs is shot, or grabbing a few more clamps. I know the counter guy at my place has commented on this many times when we've talked while I was in.As far as what they stock, I've seen those issues as well. When the local place I used changed hands, the corporation took a lot of the stocking power away from the counter guys. The reason was they wanted to streamline their inventory. The bean counters figured most companies would either want the cheapest products available, or wouldn't care. It took my guy quite a while to get the stuff many of his customers insisted on for store stock. These customers could order all this stuff and have it dropped when the truck came by their shop with cylinders, but he couldn't get the bean counters to let him keep a few boxes of that rod on hand for the impulse buys or when guys dashed in when they ran out.Honestly not really all that different than many stores today. finding places that keep shelves marked with prices is getting harder and harder as more and more places change over to scanners that let customers look up what things cost by bar code. They count on most people NOT bothering to scan the items for price. Same goes for selection. I've seen plenty of places that have dropped name brands in preference for cheaper "store" brands. Many people only see the cheap price..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:It's a massive pain in the butt to shop local for me. I get everything online except for gas. I got an invoice for  a cylinder lease from Airgas yesterday that included a hazmat fee. WTF? This was just the lease. They would put a hazmat fee on a glass of water if they sold it. I bought some wire that was drop shipped straight from Alcotec and Airgas billed me a hazmat fee. They didn't even touch it!
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWAs far as not having things priced, it's pretty common with places that sell to contractors. #1 not everyone pays the same prices. It's not at all uncommon for the company that is doing huge volumes of business to get better pricing than the small guy who does on;y a few hundred.
Reply:Start a corporation. Find out what various manu's have for minimum orders. Notify every welder in the county(or 3) and sell the product for just a couple dollars over cost. Order once a month.Everyone hates them.Translation : Shut the asczaholes down ! I know. I'ts not feasible with industrial gases but I think their aszes could get kicked on everything else. Don't forget to round up the local ironworkers and boilermakers while you're at it. Mechanics and trade schools too.It's almost spring. Throw a BBQ and have a sit down business meeting. Redneck style.Bubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:Do you have an account with Praxair?  If not and you decide get one, then sign up for:https://express.praxair.com/login/login.aspI can get the price of everything they carry by searching inventory.  Problem is, it's usually cheaper if I call my contact in the local store first.
Reply:Went to mathesons 3 days ago to get a quote on a dynasty 280. I gave him all the part numbers for everything I will need. Those numbers include everything that from the welder to a pair of gloves. I need everything!  Tuesday afternoon I called to see if he had a chance to put together a quote for me. He said that they had been real busy and didn't have a chance to get it together for me. Promised that he'd get it done and get back to me early yesterday. Still no call.  This is a $6000 order that will take him 10 minutes to quote out. He doesn't even need to look up part numbers. What am I missing here?
Reply:I work retail, big box. When I left HS, I went to work for Kmart. Best piece of retail advice I ever got was from Keith Ritchie.'If the customer don't know how much it cost, he won't buy it.'I've been to Praxair twice now. One to order some .030 wire. I accidentally ordered .023 wire when i ordered my welder.It cost me $33 for 12 pounds. My 11 pounds of .023 was $22.  Killer markup.Went in yesterday to find out about renting a cylinder while I try to locate a used tank for sale locally. The quote for an 80 cf tank: $180 for 10 years.  18 bucks a year, 1.50 a month, its not that bad, really.  But I am reasonably sure I will be able to locate a decent cylinder within 10 years.  So I asked for a quote on a 1 year rental. He comes back with $95!!! But hey! First refill is half price! (Refills are $90, so thats only $45. For 80 cf? WTF? School paid $80 for 255 cf)I'll try US Welding, see what their prices are. Holy Crap prices are ridiculous. Praxair wanted $2600 for the 252, I got mine for $2195, free shipping.  (Shameless weldersupply.com plug, they even sent me a free Miller metal thickness gauge with my order, which annoyed me, since I also ordered one - now I have 2! Good Customer appreciation tactic!) I hear you on supporting your brick and mortar, but I aint giving them $400. That's 25% of my plasma cutter paid for right there!  Oh, and when I asked Praxair about .023 drive rolls and contact tips? They didn't have either one. Niiiiice.MillerMatic 252Miller Xtreme 625Miller Digital Elite
Reply:I have an account...with Cyberweld. It's sad that I can get stuff from Cyberweld, while paying for 2nd day delivery, cheaper than driving to my LWS. Speaking of that...just received my Speedglas 9100xx from Cyberweld. None of the local places even stocked them. Of course I got the "we can order it for you". I had to be honest and say "Yup, so can I. Except when I order it I save $150.". D**k move? Not if you ask my bank account. =)Big F**king HammerJumper cables & 2 marine batteriesJaws of life
Reply:What keeps me out of the welding chain stores (such as Airgas) around here is that none of the guys or gals behind the counter appear to actually know anything about the products they sell.  I understand contractor pricing for big customers, but when I (an admittedly mere Bed Frame Welder) walk in mid-day and the place is basically empty of customers (most of the times I've gone in) I don't see why they wouldn't offer me at least some discount.  They're basically doing nothing and wouldn't have any business at that time of day but for Bed Frame Welders who wander in.I buy very little other than an occasional bottle of c25 or O2 once a year and some odds and ends, but my mom and pop LWS started giving me a discount even though I don't ask because they said they appreciate my business.  WTF?  I doubt they've made a $100 profit in a year off me, they know I bought my welders elsewhere, and they're giving me a discount?  Apparently they're insane and don't know how to run a business, but I'll never go anywhere else now and I'll be damned before I walk in an Airgas, Praxaire or other chain again. PS, shameless plug for Alamo Welding Supply in Austin.  And they treat people nicely and with respect.  How they get away with that in today's business world, I'll never know.
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArcWas at Praxair, Airgas and Matheson today, looking for the 8 or 10lb Lincoln Excalibur 7018's.  All three stores only had their "house brand" crap (Radnor, Prostar etc....). Okay, I get it, they don't want to sell the other good brands, I can live with that (sort of). What I can't stand is the fact  that not one of those three chain stores lists the prices on the shelves or the products themselves!!!! It's so frustrating having to ask a clerk, "hey how much is this? How much is that? What about these?" Etc.....   I told the guy at Praxair that THIS is the reason now why I'll buy exclusively from the internet!  He agreed with me and told me that "everybody" complains about that fact.At least the mom and pop LWS still lists prices, they're just twice the distance from my house. Okay, I'm don't bitching.
Reply:Originally Posted by shortfuseI hear you on the 7018's. I needed a 10# box of Excalibur 7018's and went to 3 different LWS's in three towns...nobody had them.  "We only have 50# boxes" was the answer I got.  I don't weld commercially and would probably be dead before I used 50#.  As another poster said, "they could order them", but then so can I.  When I asked the out-the-door price on a 10# box from the LWS if they ordered it in, it was more than my ordering online AND paying shipping.   So much for doing business with them.
Reply:One problem I see with my LWS/Metal Supplier is they really dont stock anything. I mean they might have like 2 10lbs spools of Hobart flux core, 2 10lbs spool of solid wire. A few packages of the common mig tips. a few groubd clamps. Forney everything. all overpriced. they only do bottle exchanges they dont fill it them selfs aand even if ya need a bottle recertified they have to send it out. I can buy metal, they keep that in stock and good news is they have all the metal inside, not rusting outside which is cool. They also sometimes cut long lengths for me for free just cause I cant fit it in the pickup uncut. and also if I only need a small peice of something they will give it to me for free.HH140---------------------------https://www.facebook.com/brandon.pike.9