Handheld tungsten grinders

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I appreciate most of you grind your tungstens with a wheel.  I started that way too but after using the Piranha III in the lab I've been spoiled.  I just let a Piranha II go on eBay after it crossed 400 bucks, way overkill for me though.  Those, even at 400 for the II are overkill for me but I would have been cool to have a II.    Right now I need more practice laying beads than grinding tungsten with a wheel.  I still stick and dip and while the obvious solution is not to stick or dip, that's going to happen but I'm working on it.I'm looking at the Tech Souths and trying to figure if I need adjustable angle or not.  I'm pretty sure right now I don't as my hand grinds are anything but consistent and in the lab we aren't allowed to adjust the grinder.  I'm thinking long term I will want to be able to grind different angles.  Eventually it will be mild steel and AL (need a set of AL ramps for the trailer in the worst way), some 4130 and perhaps a bit of stainless.I'm going to ask the instructor and the ringers in the class though I know that two of the ringers use grinding wheels and not purpose build grinders.TIADave
Reply:I have a sharpie.  I love it.   I rough in the electrode on a wheel or sanding belt then finish it with the diamond wheel.   I don't think adjustable angle would help my welding at all.  I do see a difference in electrode size and the size of the arc.A lot of times I barely contaminate the electrode, so this makes re sharpening easy.  Other times.......I bought it at Arc Zone.   I did get adjustable angle.  The only way it helps is I can use more of the $30.00 wheel.  Grind angle is not that big of a deal to me.  A diamond finished tungsten is nice to weld with.  DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Fingers?
Reply:Why not get the HTP hand held tung grinder? It's way less expensive
Reply:Originally Posted by Freestyle72Why not get the HTP hand held tung grinder? It's way less expensive
Reply:The HTP grinder is the Tech South Grinder. At least the head is. The motor body from HTP says Black and Decker on it while the head is engraved Tech South.I'm also a rookie welder and have used a dedicated grinder for a few and then ordered the HTP adjustable grinder. I's way faster, more accurate, more consistent, and cleaner. The tungsten was eating up my cheapo grinding wheel pretty fast and showering me with dust at the same time. The HTP unit makes for cutting off those heavily contaminated bits a breeze too. I bought the adjustable one and have so far used 3/32 and 1/16 electrodes and have yet to adjust anything and am still pleased with it. I just 'eyeballed' it through the slot on the side when I put the smaller 1/16 in it. It puts a much better point on it.It's kinda nice for a guy like me to have it handy right on the bench where I'm welding at too. It's as small as a Dremel.How do you know the blacksmith's dog? When you hollar at him he makes a bolt for the door!
Reply:I just spent $18 for 2 lbs. of sodium nitrite shipped, sprinked a little in a cup, 1 propane torch and 1/2 hour later and I've got 20 electrodes pointed (10 x 1/16 and 10 x 3/32) and I didn't inhale any thorium. Cool.JoeMiller Syncrowave 200Mac/Miller MW130 MIGKalamazoo bandsawCincinnati Arrow 500 VMCColchester Dominion 15 x 36 lathe with 2 axis DRO
Reply:Originally Posted by Freestyle72Why not get the HTP hand held tung grinder? It's way less expensive
Reply:Originally Posted by Donoharmwhy not use your fingers and drink the money?
Reply:Originally Posted by scudzukiI just spent $18 for 2 lbs. of sodium nitrite shipped, sprinked a little in a cup, 1 propane torch and 1/2 hour later and I've got 20 electrodes pointed (10 x 1/16 and 10 x 3/32) and I didn't inhale any thorium. Cool.Joe
Reply:Originally Posted by scudzukiI just spent $18 for 2 lbs. of sodium nitrite shipped, sprinked a little in a cup, 1 propane torch and 1/2 hour later and I've got 20 electrodes pointed (10 x 1/16 and 10 x 3/32) and I didn't inhale any thorium. Cool.Joe
Reply:I've never tried one of those units, sounds pretty neat if you go through a lot of tungstens.A little tip for you newer guys- I know that you think that you can see better & all, but if you stop sticking the tungsten so far out you will stick less.  You'll get better gas coverage too.I just spent $18 for 2 lbs. of sodium nitrite shipped, sprinked a little in a cup, 1 propane torch and 1/2 hour later and I've got 20 electrodes pointed (10 x 1/16 and 10 x 3/32) and I didn't inhale any thorium. Cool.Joe
Reply:@DFWI held the tungstens with a pair if pliers and heated it with a propane torch.Much faster banging out a dozen electrodes that way, plus I didn't risk spattering salt onto the gas nozzle and collet body.I never bought the chemsharp kit since it is simply an overpriced repackaged chemical.I had no instructions to go on so I experimented, heating at least 1/4" of the end of the tungsten to red in the propane torch, then dipping it around 1 to 1.5 diameters into the salt over and over produced the best results.@Machine"But you breathed in it's smoke instead.. The powdered sharpener effectively "burns" the tungsten sharp."No, I didn't breathe in the smoke. Also, nothing "burns".It is an exothermic chemical reaction. Energy is released during the reaction in the form of heat (which heats the tungsten). The "smoke" is vaporized sodium nitrite, a benign salt. The tungsten combines with oxygen and hardens. It is in the crust you throw out.@jmackeyI bought the stuff here[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Sodium-Nitrite-Grade-Granular-Flowing/dp/B003RRHTYS/ref=pd_sbs_indust_1[/ame]Used Paypal for checkout, didn't even expose my CC info.JoeLast edited by scudzuki; 02-10-2012 at 09:25 AM.Miller Syncrowave 200Mac/Miller MW130 MIGKalamazoo bandsawCincinnati Arrow 500 VMCColchester Dominion 15 x 36 lathe with 2 axis DRO
Reply:x2.  Like the sharpie I bought very much. Originally Posted by David RI have a sharpie.  I love it.   I rough in the electrode on a wheel or sanding belt then finish it with the diamond wheel.   I don't think adjustable angle would help my welding at all.  I do see a difference in electrode size and the size of the arc.A lot of times I barely contaminate the electrode, so this makes re sharpening easy.  Other times.......I bought it at Arc Zone.   I did get adjustable angle.  The only way it helps is I can use more of the $30.00 wheel.  Grind angle is not that big of a deal to me.  A diamond finished tungsten is nice to weld with.  David
Reply:Originally Posted by dstevensHad you read the first post you'd see why, but thanks for trying to save me some coin.  My time is worth something and at this point if I can save some by buying the right tool for the right job, it's worth it.  I'd rather spend the time under the hood, not learning how to consistently hand grind tungsten.  For me it's about learning to weld, not trying to prove how big my **** is because I can hand grind tungsten.
Reply:Originally Posted by David RI bought it at Arc Zone.   I did get adjustable angle.  The only way it helps is I can use more of the $30.00 wheel.  Grind angle is not that big of a deal to me.  A diamond finished tungsten is nice to weld with.  David
Reply:Tungsten in a cordless drill on a bench grinder gives me the the best consistency.
Reply:Originally Posted by DonoharmI sure red the first post here, it says something like this: " I dip the god damn tungsten every inch or so, I grind more then weld, what magic tungsten grinder it's cheaper so I don't look like an rich sob when everybody else uses the belt/stone grinder"Tungsten grinders exist for the sole purpose of grinding tungsten in AUTOMATED GTAW machines like orbital machines or any other robotic machine..
Reply:Originally Posted by greenbuggyI'd throw another vote for the sharpie in there.  When I bought mine ~5 yrs ago it was a bit cheaper than what arc zone gets now ($335 per their ebay store).  Back then I didn't have a mill or lathe, knowing what I now know I think I'd attempt to make a head for a $30ish dollar B&D grinder with a diamond wheel rather than springing for the sharpie, but without those tools at my disposal the sharpie absolutely made a big improvement over hand-grinding my tungstens, especially on AL & SS.  I don't know how much being able to finely adjust the angle of my tungsten grind would really help my welding skills.
Reply:x3 on the sharpie.I use to use a angle grinder and holding the tungsten against the shield to keep it steady and then rolled it with fingers.  It worked.  And you can sharpen pencils with your pocket knife.The Sharpie is like using a professional pencil sharpener.  Nice uniform point (even on all sides) and if (ok, 'when') I dip it, I resharpen to the exact same point I had 10 seconds earlier.The more money you pay on sharpeners, you get things like precision adjustable angles.  If you have a shop with multiple people welding and each needing a different angle, the sharpie is not the one.  If the procedure calls for an exact angle, sharpie is not the one.Con Fuse!Miller Dynasty 350Millermatic 350P-Spoolmatic 30AMiller Multimatic 200Hypertherm PowerMax 1000G3Miller Maxstar 200DX
Reply:Originally Posted by con_fuse9x3 on the sharpie.The more money you pay on sharpeners, you get things like precision adjustable angles.  If you have a shop with multiple people welding and each needing a different angle, the sharpie is not the one.  If the procedure calls for an exact angle, sharpie is not the one.
Reply:Has anyone tried to make a drexel head attachment for grinding Tungsten?It looks like the Drexel diamond drums are about a buck a piece.  In my minds eye, I'm seeing something that mounts to the dremel head, the diamond drum, and a piece with a hole in it the same diameter as a 17 series collet holders inside diameter.  I think a piece of 1/4" aluminum angle would be stiff enough fr the base.  Then you can install whatever collet you want over whatever size tungsten and grind away through the same size hole.  Perhaps this should be a group build project?I may try and post results.  Even if it is an open design, I can't see it costing more than $30 to make.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Originally Posted by Drf255Has anyone tried to make a drexel head attachment for grinding Tungsten?It looks like the Drexel diamond drums are about a buck a piece.  In my minds eye, I'm seeing something that mounts to the dremel head, the diamond drum, and a piece with a hole in it the same diameter as a 17 series collet holders inside diameter.  I think a piece of 1/4" aluminum angle would be stiff enough fr the base.  Then you can install whatever collet you want over whatever size tungsten and grind away through the same size hole.
Reply:Those drums look pretty cool.  I wonder how a "Hollow Ground" tip would be?I see diamond wheels pretty cheap, but I am now spoiled by the sharpie.Friday night I sharpened about 50 1/16" tungstens in a half an hour.  Most I used the sharpie.  Some were just barely contaminated, some had a huge ball that I cut off and  a few had to be cleaned up on a fine belt sander before going into the sharpie.1/16" sharpens much quicker than 3/32.   1/8" seems huge.  I keep my torch cleaned and tweaked so I can just turn the back cap and the contaminted tungsten falls out.  I then install a new one and keep right on welding.   For this to work,  I have to remove the color coding paint.DavidLast edited by David R; 02-12-2012 at 10:43 AM.Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:Originally Posted by LarryOTungsten in a cordless drill on a bench grinder gives me the the best consistency.Had a machinist make these for me some years ago. It's a knurled part that duplicates a collet body and accepts a standard collet. I have two of the most common size I use. Took a full size back cap and turn off the fins. You can use it by hand or put it in a cordless on slow speed and run it against your bench grinder.
Reply:I'm gonna give it a shot when I get a chance.  My dremel has a removable collar to install accessories.  I only have the regular sanding drums. I'm figuring on using a hole saw on one end of the angle Alum, then using a pilot hole unit i get the angle of the collet right.  Then drill the hole the size of a collet body, and tap it to accept the collet body thread where the cups thread on.  This should allow collet installation and then pushing any size tungsten I want in.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:My Rube Goldberg half hour attempt, but you get the picture:TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Above post moved to project section.  Trying to remove.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Awesome post.which way does the stone turn?DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:The stone turns into the tungsten.  The other hole makes the stone turn away from the tungsten and pulls the tungsten in.Diamond dremel drums are on order.  I will post results when I get them if anyone cares.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:my suggestion..bench grinder and $5 draftsman's leadholder..any angle you want..i just hold it between thumb and forefinger until they get too short.. Attached Images
Reply:I usually over-complicate things, but to sharpen tungstens, I generally roll the tungsten between my fingers while grinding it on a bench grinder.Works great, and since the diameter of the tungsten is smaller than the diameter of a Ronco WhizBang™ Tungsten Sharpening Holder Gizmo® it makes a more symmetrical point.It also saves the extra steps of putting the tungsten into, and taking the tungsten out of, the Ronco WhizBang™ Tungsten Sharpening Holder Gizmo®.
Reply:I use one of these to sharpen my tungsten. All it has ever been used for. I sharpen it on the grinding wheel then polish it with the scotch-brite type material on the other side. Works pretty well for what I do.http://www.harborfreight.com/bench-g...aft-43533.htmlBrad GeorgeCurrent Equipment:AIRCO Heliwelder IV 300Amp Model - Total Awesomeness!Old 120v Hobart Handler MIGVarious grinders, cutting tools, hammers, clamps, ect..."I'm an amateur welder with lots left to learn..."
Reply:Originally Posted by backpurgeX 2 . Sharpen a whole pack of tunsten at both ends, throw them in tungsten keeper and go to work and make coin. I guess I'm too cheap to buy one of these things. Can't see where they save a guy enough time to justify the price.
Reply:Originally Posted by dstevensTHere's a serious question....  all you guys dissing dedicated grinders, a) at what level do you GTAW weld?  Cert?  For a living?  b) how many of you have actually used them and compared to a bench grinder?
Reply:Originally Posted by weldbeadthe guy that taught me uses a bench grinder ..hes a pretty good pro..
Reply:This thread reminds me of those golfers you see who spend more time shopping for, buying, and then justifying the purchase of Whizbang™ Military-Grade Unobtainium® Golf Clubs ... than actually, like, hitting the little white ball and trying to make it fall in the hole.They've got a new, more expensive set of clubs every time you see them ... yet their score never seems to improve.
Reply:I  have used a sharpie for 2 years.1/8 on the left, 1/16" on the right.   Each one has about 50 or so prepared  electrodes.I never claimed to be a pro.The fine finish makes for a more focused arc.  Less wandering.  I could see the difference right away from when I used to do them on the bench grinder with a drill. When those trays are full of  fouled electrodes the sharpie looks pretty good.Smaller diameter are easier on the wheel in the sharpie.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:I still think that when I am either dipping the tungsten, sticking the filler to it, or getting that sparky bubbly porosity and splattering (from poor cleaning) all over the tungsten my HTP handheld grinder fixes me back up and running faster than the time spent waiting for thetungsten to cool.I realize I may be in the minority and I am surely not old school and am teaching myself. But it's fast and convenient.... andexpensive, yes. But so is 7-11 for what they selland they do a good business. Not saying It's the right thing for everyoneor a good buy but it has helped me. To David R'spoint I only see improved returns on the investment as I get busier and need aboatload of tungstens ready to go. Or, morelikely, have a boatload of tungstens ready for clean-up.As a side note, I gave up golf on rental clubsbecause I can't afford to keep losing my balls! How do you know the blacksmith's dog? When you hollar at him he makes a bolt for the door!
Reply:i have a bosch 3 x 21 in. belt sander that i turn upside down, it sits perfectly flat that way, hit the trigger lock and grind away.this is the last week i'll be using that, although it has worked well, i'm going to order the sharpie myself.   i can't believe i have been out in the field without one of these things;  and it will fit anywhere.  the price?  about the cost of a quality drill and i've bought a lot of them.to that guy that says he's not a pro;  you're getting paid for what you do and that bench top does not look like a beginner's work space;   looks pro to me.
Reply:Originally Posted by KelvinThis thread reminds me of those golfers you see who spend more time shopping for, buying, and then justifying the purchase of Whizbang™ Military-Grade Unobtainium® Golf Clubs ... than actually, like, hitting the little white ball and trying to make it fall in the hole.They've got a new, more expensive set of clubs every time you see them ... yet their score never seems to improve.
Reply:You guys keep mentioning that these sharpeners save a lot of time.  Just keep practicing & you won't need to sharpen as muchI'll use 1-5 tips in a day & I probably take a whole of 5 minutes to sharpen them.  I guess I'll just save the money, & buy a more useful tool.  The dremel gizmo looks handy.200+ clams is way too expensive for the task it does.A cheesy HD drill doctor is 1/2 of that & far more useful for a new fabricator.  I like the pin vise 9er.Buy American, or don't whine when you end up on the bread line.
Reply:now he's gonna tell us sharpening drill bits by hand is unproductive...you should skip the welding school go straight to a biz school ,you are clearly management stuff p.s. yes, I was sarcastic--------------------------------------------------------------www.becmotors.nlyup, I quit welding.. joined welder anonymous
Reply:Originally Posted by dstevensThat zooming noise is the point of the thread flying over your head.  The golf club analogy is non sequiter.  Do you even play?  What is your handicap? If I may ask, at what level are you GTAW certified and what do you weld?  The high production fab shops here and the pro (and even semi pro) race teams use dedicated grinders or chemical.  Many of these guys have been welding for 30 plus years.  And there is a reason.  It's faster, cheaper and more efficient.  You can still forge steel with a bellows and an anvil but he guys getting **** done for a living are using large presses.  It's 2012 dude.  Time to get on the modern tool bandwagon.  There are a lot of small shops, one guy service trucks that still use a bench grinder.  Good for you you guys. That;s a dying art, there are tools that do it better and at lower long term costs. Bigger, high production shops went to dedicated grinders a while back.  If I have a shop and I'm paying you 30 bucks an hour to weld, I don't want to pay you for 60 secs to prep an electrode when in 20 secs with a thousand dollar tool, you can be more consistent, faster, and waste less material.Go to Leavitt, go to Lefthander, Hendrick, Gibbs, they aren't using bench grinders or robots for GTAW welding but they are using dedicated tungsten grinders for hand held work.  And a lot of it.  How many of you guys that are the dedicated grinder naysayers are doing that level of work?  Or doing any professional work?  You hand grind tungsten?  Good for you.  But what you fail to grok is that the high end of the industry have moved on.  Instead of looking at it as a process that adds value you see manual grinding as some neanderthal badge of honor that in high volume situations is a poor business practice.So I ask again.  You dedicated grinder naysayers, show what you have.  Let's see some grinds, some beads, some client lists.  Are you doing  real, big time work.  Or are you taking out your ***.
Reply:no more hair raising, knuckle shaving nine inch grinder grinds, no more looking for styrofoam cups for water, no more burned fingers, get rid of the bosch belt sander.only took a few decades to come around, but i'm down now. Attached Images
Reply:mine has the same drive motor but a little different head.  You CAN burn your fingers, I use the tungsten until I can't fit,Enjoy your new toy!Real world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:definitely a worthwhile purchase dave;  i've ground every piece of tungsten i could find.  you're right though, they can get hot. Attached Images
Reply:Try then with  out the flat,  I find it a more focused arc,.You should see a more defined arc compared to a bench grinder.DavidReal world weldin.  When I grow up I want to be a tig weldor.
Reply:I guess I can't justify spending all that money for a grinder. I use a $30 bench grinder and hold the tungsten with my hand. I don't need a holder or anything. Am I doing it wrong? LolTorchmate 2x2 CNC with Flashcut CNC controlsHypertherm Powermax45 Esab ET220i Razorweld 195 MigRazorweld 200ac/dc TigTormach 770, Tormach xstechRazorweld, Vipercut/Vipermig, SSC Foot Pedal Dealer