Do we need to switch from flow meter to pressure regulator?

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Shop is TIG/MIG.All are running shielding gas from bulk packs (16 of the BIG Argon bottles, all hooked up in parallel, with 1 valve coming out that feeds the line that go to the welding stations).We just added 4 more TIG stations but we only have 1 quick-connect valve at that station.  Since everyone is going to be running at the same rate for shielding gas, could we not just run a pressure regulator right at the bulk pack, which would keep the same pressure in the line going out to the welders no matter if 1 person was welding at the time, or all 4 ?  Right now, that 1 quick-connect at the TIG station (that used to have just 1 TIG welder, now there's 4 there) used to have a flowmeter attached to it.  We can't split the line from 1-line to 4-lines AFTER the flow-meter, because we'd have to crank up the flow so high for the times that all 4 TIG machines were welding, and if only 1 was in use, it would be using (wasting) way too much gas.So would using a pressure regulator right up at the bulk pack allow us to just get rid of all the individual flow meters at each station?  Some people are too prone to cranking their gas up too high, so we'd like to be able to set it ONCE (at the bulk pack) and limit it there.  But with 6 TIG stations in total, there could be 1 person welding at any point in time, 2, 3, all 6, etc...  so we need each station to have the gas they require.So I thought a pressure regulator would keep x Psi in the line no matter how many machines were using it at any given point in time.  eg: If it was set to 15psi, it would provide 15psi to 1 welder if it was the only one on, and 15psi to all 6 welders if all 6 were going.Do I have this right?"A winner isn't someone who doesn't lose, a winner is someone who doesn't quit."
Reply:To me it sounds right but I'd call the boyz at the industrial gas company(not necessarily welding meatheads) and see what they have.There's more gas gadgetry out there than you could ever imagine.A mountain of stuff you'd never find without knowing the terminolgy or industrial/medical application--name of gadget.Bubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:Split it to 4 lines off the quick connect then connect each line to an individual flow meter1982 miller blue star 2E ac/dcHarbor freight flux core posVictor oa
Reply:When you add more outlets or stations without increasing the plumbing diameters, you will see the effects of pressure drop and loss of volume to each station if they are all running (flowing gas) simultaneously.If the multi bottle manifold system was engineered for a specific number of stations, without any consideration or contingency plans for growth/expansion..........the basic plumbing diameters may not have the capacity to maintain adequate flow volume, especially so if the additional stations are much further away from the original manifold point.
Reply:Originally Posted by walkerweldWhen you add more outlets or stations without increasing the plumbing diameters, you will see the effects of pressure drop and loss of volume to each station if they are all running (flowing gas) simultaneously.If the multi bottle manifold system was engineered for a specific number of stations, without any consideration or contingency plans for growth/expansion..........the basic plumbing diameters may not have the capacity to maintain adequate flow volume, especially so if the additional stations are much further away from the original manifold point.
Reply:I would not, under any circumstances, get rid of all of your flowmeters in favor of a single or multiple regulator(s).  All of your welding stations may currently be using the same cfh, but it may not always be that way.  Flowmeters are invaluable for helping diagnose problems at the individual machine and gun as well.  They eliminate a lot of head-scratching.  The only people in the welding world that I know of who prefer regulators to flowmeters are the bean counters.
Reply:Flow meters at each welding station, supported by piping/hoses of sufficient size (diameter) from the gas distribution set-up to those flow meters so that there is sufficient pressure and flow rate upstream of the flow meters so that the flow meters can actually meter correctly and deliver the desired flow rate at each welding station.Cause anything else is pretty much a bass-ackwards set-up.ex: flow meter is upstream of a T/Y/branch connection.  Let's say we set the flow meter to 20 cfh.  Then we would have 20 cfh going into the branch connection.  If (great big wopping IF) the flow paths down stream of the branch connection are -exactly- the same flow conditions, then each leg of the branch would get 20/2=10 cfh of flow if both are 'active' at the same time.  If there is -any- flow condition difference (longer or shorter pipe or hose, pipe-vs-hose, different fitting numbers and/or types, anything different at all) between the two legs, then the flow rates will no longer be equal.pssst, tech note time.  If (again, a rather big if there) you regulate the pressure in the distribution lines and put a calibrated and pretty darn accurate flow 'restriction' (aka calibrated orifice) in-line at each welding station, you have mostly made a flow-regulator.  But a flow regulator is not quite (close but not quite) the same thing as a flow meter (which actually measures the flow and not the 'calculated flow' like the regulated pressure and calibrated orifice does).  Ignoring any and all flow or pressure losses in the distribution piping/hoses.Just  put a flow meter at each welding station.  That is the only way to know what flow rate is occurring at that station.  The best laid schemes ... Gang oft agley ...
Reply:Now that you have realized and explained where the flow meters are located, I agree that there may not be sufficient volume of gas reaching both end stations if both stations are consuming gas simultaneously.I just had it in my mind that each station (welder) already had its own flow meter (from your opening post...."just get rid of all the individual flow meters at each station?").  Now you have something to work on.
Reply:In a perfect world we WOULD have a flow meter at each station (we DID, up until the last expansion), but for the time being I'm looking for a quick fix.  Also, in a perfect world, every person would have their flow rate a max of 20cfh which is all we need, but we REPEATEDLY find people using way too much gas.  We have a busy season (winter) where it's a revolving door with people coming and going, many of which have no idea what they're doing, and we often find flow gauges cranked up to 70+ cfh, wasting gas.Right now we have about 14 welding stations in our building (about 4 more in the other building), but 2 of the TIG stations are missing flow meters, so we've Y-split them *after* the flow meter because it was easy to do with the quick-connect Y-splitters we have.  Took 2 seconds.  Our place is notorious for slow-moving when it comes to doing things / getting things for the shop, so any 'temporary' fixes at my work would be pretty much considered permanent anywhere else.The only way I can think of right now is to limit the line pressure at the regulator at the bulk pack tanks, because if we have 4 people sharing 2 flow meters, if we want each welder to have 15 or 20cfh, we'd have to crank the flow meter (or flow regulator) up to 30 or 40cfh for the times when both are in use.  Which would mean the times only 1 person was welding, it would be giving 2x the required amount of gas.I KNOW I KNOW we should just have flow meters at each station.  We don't.   We WILL... but until then..."A winner isn't someone who doesn't lose, a winner is someone who doesn't quit."
Reply:Regulator at bulk pack and a flow meter at each station and call it a dayIf you,are so worried about gas waste watch your students closerMiller Xmt 350Lincoln Ln-25Ahp 200xSmith Gas Mixer AR/HTig is my Kung FuThrowing down dimes and weaving aboutInstagram http://instagram.com/[email protected]
Reply:Just tell em, 'We cannot do X, until we have Y equipment.' (If this is for a welding school) Teaching new welders to take shortcuts is going to send them out into the field with the mentality that shortcuts are ok, and that will get them, or someone else killed. (If it is for a job site) Without the equipment to measure the parameters used, we cannot guarantee the work was done correctly, and therefore we cannot guarantee it at all.Either way, the bean counters will (grudgingly) relent.  Probably sooner than later, too.MillerMatic 252Miller Xtreme 625Miller Digital Elite
Reply:Well you could put a regulator at the bulkpack and run at 50psi, and put flow restrictors at the stations. You can order them from netwelding.com . http://netwelding.com/Orifice_Flow_Control.htmCheck final flow at the station with a portable flowmeter also from netwelding.com.  http://netwelding.com/prod02.htm#Flow%20Gauge Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:When they installed piping in the shop I worked in the suggestion was made to just purchase the required fittings that have a sized orifice and set the pressure on the piping to 50 psi.  If you are running off a bank of bottles we had to resort to a proper large regulator with a heater included.  This was for an argon mix not CO2.  We never trusted the orifices and went to the expense of putting a flowmeter on every wire feeder.  You were always second guessing why suddenly porosity showed up.  Some of it was from freezing up at the large regulator.  With a flowmeter on the feeder that eliminated some of the suspects.   A hand held flow meter that you can put on a nozzle is invaluable in a shop.
Reply:Thanks for all the ideas and great replies guys. I can only tell the supervisor. After that it's up to them if they want to save thousands of dollars a month on gas...  :P"A winner isn't someone who doesn't lose, a winner is someone who doesn't quit."