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I am looking to stick weld but I don't have an oven. Then I read here that 6010 rod doesn't need to be kept warm where as 7018 does (I live in rainy vancouver too btw). Thing is, I can't remember the difference between 6010 and 7018. Can anybody tell me how they weld?
Reply:Oven not needed for stick welding, get a stick welder. SORRY, I had to say it before someone else. Here's what MILLER says, http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...ode-selection/This one explains it too, Good reading. http://www.thefabricator.com/article...-6011-and-7018
Reply:7014 is a good substitute for 7018 that isn't as picky about storage. It's not quite as ductile as 7018 is, but is usually better than 6010.For typical "hobby" applications, you don't always "need" an oven for 7018. If you take some basic precautions like keeping it stored in a rod tube and not leaving the tube open all the time, just taking out what you need, you can cut down on moisture absorption. There are a number of other suggested methods to slow or limit moisture absorption that have been discussed here in the past numerous times. One guy I know opens up the larger sealed cans, then vacuum seals the rods in small 1 to 5 lb packages for later use. Some guys will use desiccant to help limit moisture uptake. These aren't "Code", but are fine for average use. Best bet is to buy in smaller quantities as needed vs buying say 50 lbs and then having it sit. It may cost a bit more, but you end up ahead in the long run since you usually have fresher rods that way, and don't waste rods because you have to toss them.7018, even improperly stored is more than good enough for many noncritical projects. However it can become erratic in how it runs if it soaks up too much moisture. Then you can always toss whats left..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:I think 5P would do you well if just getting started. I don't have an oven for my 7018 but I do store it properly. Remember it's not in an oven when you buy it. The chances of boxed rod(cardboard with plastic bag) being perfectly sealed is slim. Don't get it wet, keep dry. If your making that many critical welds you can probably afford an oven. IMHOArcon Workhorse 300MSPowcon 400SMTPowcon SM400 x 2Powcon SM3001968 SA200 Redface1978 SA250 DieselMiller Super 32P FeederPre 1927 American 14" High Duty LatheK&T Milwaukee 2H Horizontal MillBryan
Reply:Those two rods don't really compare to each other. They do different jobs. Keep the 7018 in an oven and see how well they burn, pretty smooth stuff. City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:1008.Look for Lincoln E7018LHRH R=Resistance to moisture.Might as well piss'em off. Get a box of 3/32 Hilco Red Extra and call it a day.The whiners about 6013 are using the Kmart rods.I hate Lincolns L46 as much as the next guy.Bubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:Thanks Guys, appreciate the help. Great articles too. I keep forgetting how good that Miller site is.I think i'll go for a small box of 7018 unless we decided to use rusty old metal in which case I'll grab a box of 6010.
Reply:Originally Posted by tanglediverThose two rods don't really compare to each other. They do different jobs. Keep the 7018 in an oven and see how well they burn, pretty smooth stuff.
Reply:You haven't mentioned what type of welding machine you have. If you have an AC only, you won't be able to use either of the rods you mentioned. 6011 is a good subtitute for 6010, and will run on AC or DC. And as DSW mentioned, the 7014 is a good, easy to use rod. And it will run well on either AC or DC.
Reply:Originally Posted by eastexanIf you have an AC only, you won't be able to use either of the rods you mentioned.
Reply:I'm not to sure upon this but I believe I've read from various sources the differences between 6010 and 7018 are numerous: 6010 is designed to be a high penetration rod and is preferred for root passes, the down side to 6010 is that it has a lower amount of flux coating than 7018 so it becomes a harder rod to run. From personal experience I think 6010 is hard to run in a "dragging technique" I use more of an oscillation technique. It takes some skill to run 6010 in all positions I believe it is also a fast freeze rod, hence the reason you can't really see a huge amount of slag when welding it.7018 on the other hand I believe is either considered a low-mid penetration rod. The upside to 7018 would be that it can take more tensile strength than a 6010 since it's rated for 60,000 psi. It's also a very smooth running rod you can use a drag technique and get a beautiful bead. It has a higher amount of flux coating compared to 6010 hence the reason when running vertical up it looks like the filler metal is dripping all over the place but it's actually the slag.In conclusion I'm not to sure on this but personally i would run a 6010 for the root pass and hot pass (nice amount of penetration) then run a 7018 for fill and cap passes. My theory is that 6010 and 7018 both have great characteristics but they have some faults....so if you combine both of them together you'd be able to get a superior quality weld?
Reply:Originally Posted by aav1996In conclusion I'm not to sure on this but personally i would run a 6010 for the root pass and hot pass (nice amount of penetration) then run a 7018 for fill and cap passes. My theory is that 6010 and 7018 both have great characteristics but they have some faults....so if you combine both of them together you'd be able to get a superior quality weld?
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWNot completely true. While it is true 6010 won't run well at all off AC, some 7018 rods will run off some AC machines. Typically 7018AC rods will run better than regular 7018 rods off AC machines. However just because a rod runs well off one AC machine, doesn't mean it will run well off all machines in AC. Some AC machines just seem to work better than others running 7018. Just because you have an AC only stick machine, doesn't automatically rule out being able to use 7018.
Reply:Ovens are meant to keep the moisture out of the 7018 rods by creating heat therefore evaporating the moisture.... So would my mom's oven work for that?
Reply:If she don't beat your ash it will do very well! Originally Posted by aav1996Ovens are meant to keep the moisture out of the 7018 rods by creating heat therefore evaporating the moisture.... So would my mom's oven work for that?
Reply:Originally Posted by aav1996Ovens are meant to keep the moisture out of the 7018 rods by creating heat therefore evaporating the moisture.... So would my mom's oven work for that?
Reply:Unless you plan to store them in mud puddles, 7018 that's absorbed atmospheric moisture will still weld and look respectable. I have a 50-lb box that's been open for 5 years, that I'm slowly using up on those true 'farm code' jobs that come along from time to time. They've been damp enough that the stubs are rusty and always mini-weld themselves to the stinger when you strike an arc. They're the kind of rods that you don't feel bad tossing a 6" stub into the scrap bucket if it's most convenient. If we were to get honest answers, I'd expect nearly every welder here, professional and otherwise, has such a box hanging around the shop somewhere.When/if you're far enough along that you need genuine low-hydrogen properties, skip the cardboard boxes of 7018 and go straight for a sealed tin of Lincoln Excalibur or something similar. But in the meantime, don't worry too much about the oven.For the rusty metal you listed in your last post, you might as well clean it up with a grinder before you weld it. It's a good habit to be in regardless of what type of rod you're planning to use.
Reply:Originally Posted by tbone550Unless you plan to store them in mud puddles, 7018 that's absorbed atmospheric moisture will still weld and look respectable. I have a 50-lb box that's been open for 5 years, that I'm slowly using up on those true 'farm code' jobs that come along from time to time. They've been damp enough that the stubs are rusty and always mini-weld themselves to the stinger when you strike an arc. They're the kind of rods that you don't feel bad tossing a 6" stub into the scrap bucket if it's most convenient.
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWIs your mom really going o let you run her oven full time just to keep your rods warm? Some how I doubt that. If you are talking about drying "damp" rods, most ovens won't go high enough. If I remember right, Lincoln's directions for drying rods is to leave them at 700 deg for an hour or so and then hold them at 250 for storage. Most rod ovens don't even go high enough to dry rods, only store them. Also remember if it's a gas oven, simply burning natural gas creates moisture, the exact thing you are trying to remove, so using one is pointless.
Reply:Originally Posted by MinnesotaDaveMy box is at least ten years old (and was free) and is only good for 'yard code' welds and practice - farm code is too high
Reply:Originally Posted by tbone550Since we're admitting things, I'll also admit I have two more 50-lb cardboard boxes of them that are so nasty that I only use them for some extra weight in my car when it's snowy. The rest of the year they sit in the garage beside the car, ready for next winter.
Reply:I've played around a little bit with open root pipe welding with 7018. Attached ImagesDont pay any attention to meIm just a hobbyist!CarlDynasty 300V350-Pro w/pulseSG Spool gun1937 IdealArc-300PowerArc 200ST3 SA-200sVantage 400
Reply:I thought I'd throw in a comment on this one...........Years ago when I lived in Chicago I worked as a maintenance welder in the Steel mills (1970's). I remember going out on a job once with an old timer (we would get sent out in teams to the various departments with a little golf cart looking welding rigs). Anyway, we had to weld on some soaking pit covers. These are made from like 12" square slabs of iron shaped into a rectangular cover similar to a kitchen pan lid in concept. It kept the heat in while the raw ingots (fresh from the melt shop where they actually made the steel) "soaked" in these deep "ovens" called soaking pits, until bright red which were then taken out and run through a series of rollers (or dies depending on the shape intended, angle, I-beam, etc.) to make the final product.Anyway, the heat and cool cycle of 24 hour operation would burn the metal so that it wood literally "peel" apart and these covers would lose their welded joints and would begin to come apart. Our job on that project was to hammer the burnt metal away which had the same characteristics as heavily rusted metal. Some of it would come off readily upon being pounded and the hard stuff would have to be "cleaned" off with a torch and large tip. The heat on the burnt metal would cause it to expand at a different rate than the base metal and it would literally fly off. We would have to wear face shields as the stuff (which was hot enough to burn your skin would hit you from the force). The heavy chunks just fell to the ground, the lighter stuff flew like low velocity shrapnel in all directions.To the point.......We would use 3/16" rods (6010 and 7018 and Jet rod) to weld these things back together and sometimes we would go through a 50 pound box of rod between several of us in a shift easily. One day we ran out of rod which meant going back to the shop (this particular mill was like a half square mile) which we didn't want to do especially since it was close to quitting time. The old timer found a partially used up box of some 7018 3/16" rod that had been sitting out from some other job for who knows how long and was damp (no, it was wet) too. For those that don't know, steel mill work is almost like working outdoors as the facility is basically an open air production environment with a roof so water, snow, etc. would come into them from the sides. So he cranks up our welder, put a rod in the stinger and grounded the rod and literally dried it on the spot as steam hissed out of it and cracks formed on the coating as it did so. Once the sizzling stopped the rod was dry and we used them and were able to finish the job. I had never seen that done before that and for what we were welding it worked just fine. How about that when a rod oven isn't available?By the way, the guy I went out on that job with had been welding since he was a kid. He would tell us how they used to roll bare, wet rods in lime powder to coat them and use them for stick welding that way.Anyway, hope this wasn't too long a story.Tony
Reply:So he cranks up our welder, put a rod in the stinger and grounded the rod and literally dried it on the spot as steam hissed out of it and cracks formed on the coating as it did so. Once the sizzling stopped the rod was dry and we used them and were able to finish the job. I had never seen that done before that and for what we were welding it worked just fine. How about that when a rod oven isn't available?I have done this many times, and it can be done if you have suspect rod or were welding outside and some rod dropped in the snow, I've never had to crank up the welder just stick the rod and watch the rod, when then steam stops break it off of the piece and have at it.Swanny
Reply:Seems interesting that a bunch of "Garage/Hobby" welders would feel that 7018 and 6010 are the only rod made and must be kept in an oven.Before the Tradesmen jump down my throat, I understand your comments are here too.I've read this with great interest as it is nice to see that 6011, 6013 and 7014 are recommended also.Originally Posted by drujininSeems interesting that a bunch of "Garage/Hobby" welders would feel that 7018 and 6010 are the only rod made and must be kept in an oven.Before the Tradesmen jump down my throat, I understand your comments are here too.I've read this with great interest as it is nice to see that 6011, 6013 and 7014 are recommended also.
Reply:I would use 7018 i have used them "wet" alot and they run just fine. A rod oven is more of a precaution.Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by crazyweldinfoolI would use 7018 i have used them "wet" alot and they run just fine. A rod oven is more of a precaution.Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk
Reply:Originally Posted by drujininSeems interesting that a bunch of "Garage/Hobby" welders would feel that 7018 and 6010 are the only rod made and must be kept in an oven.Before the Tradesmen jump down my throat, I understand your comments are here too.I've read this with great interest as it is nice to see that 6011, 6013 and 7014 are recommended also.
Reply:@ MinnesotaDave - thanks for the Lincoln link/vid. Very helpful in my 3G test preparations. Charlie's an awesome welding instructor!"Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Sometimes what you are trying to say does not translate well into typed words.I see a lot of mis-information posted as Gospel every day.Some times it is posted in Well Meaning, other times it is a Bunch of Narrow Minded Mis-Information.It needs to be realized that some people believe that what they read is the only way, not necessarily the correct way for the application at hand.Everyday when I open this Forum I see people saying oven dried 7018 is the only way.No one ever asks the person if it is a low carbon steel part on a rusty old piece of machinery or a high tensile critical steel part.In the old days Limited Input AC Welders were marketed to Home Owners, Farmers, Small Businesses in the attempt to gain Market share.These days most of the posts seem to dwell on the newest latest and greatest biggest Welder currently available along with the Best Rod on the Market.Research is time consuming, most people don't have the patience to sit down and research a product that fits their current application and need.This is why tons of foreign made tools and equipment are sold everyday in "Big Box Stores".Me?I started welding on a Lincoln 225AC, then went to a Lincoln 180AC (black face), then a few years on an engine driven Miller DC, to a Miller Thunderbolt (top crank) with a Lincoln Weldenpower on the truck to a Miller Dial-Arc still with the Lincoln for portability. Though I do have a line on a Miller portable possibly???Point is Welding rod when I started out usually said Fleet-Weld on it or Jet-Weld, 6011 and 6013 along with 7014 and Ni-Rod occasionally, on to the dozen or so manufacturers of welding consumables currently available to day.I weld a lot in a years time, sometimes not much for a month, then suddenly a bunch of fabrications and repairs at a time. This includes Cast Iron, Stainless, Low Carbon steel and High Carbon Steel along with the padding/hard facing projects that arise.Am I an Expert? No!Do I believe that 7018 must be oven dried? Yes, depending on the circumstances and application at the time. Do I believe DC and 7018 are the only way to weld? No! It has its applications. (lots of stuff is welded with AC and 60 series rod everyday)Also I apologize to the Original Poster for going off on a tangent as maybe indeed I mis-read something in his post concerning application.
Reply:This is simple math. The Difference between 7018 and 6010 is 10,000 pounds. Period.Now what are their relative attributes and applications is a different story. And also how you treat them, one is a whip rod while the other is a drag rod.
Reply:Core knowledge on "7018" nomenclature: http://www.hobartbrothers.com/news/1...he-Basics.html"Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:never underestimate what a red-neck country boy can do or get done. not a welder by trade but have "stuck" stuff together that pro welders laughed and said never work most of it is still working after 20 plus years. auto trans was my trade. raced them for 12-15 years. at least half of the high dollar stuff sold for the mid 10 sec. 1/4 mile is not necessary. have one tq trans that i built in mid 70s that still works to prove it.it won a championship a few years back. high dollar should be better but not always necessary.
Reply:One thousand and eight is the difference.
Reply:Originally Posted by walkerOne thousand and eight is the difference.
Reply:Very interestingThanks guysDoing the best I can with what I got
Reply:@ MN Dave - based on your comment, you need to devour Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid. GEB's a '79 class right up your alley bro."Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Originally Posted by drujininSometimes what you are trying to say does not translate well into typed words.I see a lot of mis-information posted as Gospel every day.Some times it is posted in Well Meaning, other times it is a Bunch of Narrow Minded Mis-Information.It needs to be realized that some people believe that what they read is the only way, not necessarily the correct way for the application at hand.Everyday when I open this Forum I see people saying oven dried 7018 is the only way.No one ever asks the person if it is a low carbon steel part on a rusty old piece of machinery or a high tensile critical steel part.In the old days Limited Input AC Welders were marketed to Home Owners, Farmers, Small Businesses in the attempt to gain Market share.These days most of the posts seem to dwell on the newest latest and greatest biggest Welder currently available along with the Best Rod on the Market.Research is time consuming, most people don't have the patience to sit down and research a product that fits their current application and need.This is why tons of foreign made tools and equipment are sold everyday in "Big Box Stores".Me?I started welding on a Lincoln 225AC, then went to a Lincoln 180AC (black face), then a few years on an engine driven Miller DC, to a Miller Thunderbolt (top crank) with a Lincoln Weldenpower on the truck to a Miller Dial-Arc still with the Lincoln for portability. Though I do have a line on a Miller portable possibly???Point is Welding rod when I started out usually said Fleet-Weld on it or Jet-Weld, 6011 and 6013 along with 7014 and Ni-Rod occasionally, on to the dozen or so manufacturers of welding consumables currently available to day.I weld a lot in a years time, sometimes not much for a month, then suddenly a bunch of fabrications and repairs at a time. This includes Cast Iron, Stainless, Low Carbon steel and High Carbon Steel along with the padding/hard facing projects that arise.Am I an Expert? No!Do I believe that 7018 must be oven dried? Yes, depending on the circumstances and application at the time. Do I believe DC and 7018 are the only way to weld? No! It has its applications. (lots of stuff is welded with AC and 60 series rod everyday)Also I apologize to the Original Poster for going off on a tangent as maybe indeed I mis-read something in his post concerning application.
Reply:Originally Posted by ManoKai@ MN Dave - based on your comment, you need to devour Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid. GEB's a '79 class right up your alley bro.
Reply:^^ complemented bro ^^"Discovery is to see what everybody else has seen, and to think what nobody else has thought" - Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
Reply:Originally Posted by ManoKai^^ complemented bro ^^ |
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发表于 2021-8-31 23:16:12