closing up sheetmetal screw holes

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hey all. I took a visor off of my truck which left (10) screw holes in the roof. The screws are around .031" diameter screws. Would I be able to just fill those holes in with a mig welder and grind them smooth? Right now I put the the screws back in with some silicone sealant.I am concernd with blowing though it and making a bigger hole.I have no way of measuring to know how think the metal is up there.I have an Eastwood 135 with .023 steel mig wire and 75/25 Argon/CO2.Thanks!
Reply:The big problem will probably be distortion.   The welds will shrink, distorting the panel.    You could perhaps hit the welds with a hammer to stretch them back out, but that assumes some sheet metal skill, which it sounds like you don't have.I sure would not weld the holes shut, you are just asking for trouble.Richard Originally Posted by mkattshey all. I took a visor off of my truck which left (10) screw holes in the roof. The screws are around .031" diameter screws. Would I be able to just fill those holes in with a mig welder and grind them smooth? Right now I put the the screws back in with some silicone sealant.I am concernd with blowing though it and making a bigger hole.I have no way of measuring to know how think the metal is up there.I have an Eastwood 135 with .023 steel mig wire and 75/25 Argon/CO2.Thanks!
Reply:I def do NOT have "skills". This is my first adventure into body work. But, the saving grace here is my truck is a "beater/experiment" wher eI don't much care if it looks pretty. Heck, I roughed up the factory paint with 80 grit and rattle canned the whole thing to a satin black. Eventually I intend to cover the whole cab with bed liner. It is a daily driver, but will also see trails and rocks so a pretty paint job is out of the question. If it gets nicked and dinged, I will just repaint that spot! haha.So as long as I can plug the whole permanetly and grind is semi smooth, I will be happy with the result. My only fear was blowing thru the sheet metal and making the hole bigger.Eastwood Mig135
Reply:Its a beater. Pound and fold a piece of copper pipe flat to use as a backer. Leave about a six inch "handle". Put someone on the outside with the backer. Climb in the truck and weld the  holes up with a quick little circle. Nothing to grind.Actually, do it that way even if it's a restore job.Bubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:Best time to practice is on a beater Try one with the screw hole the size it is.  Try another by drilling it out a little bigger to clean the hole up and make it easier to weld.In either case, use the copper backer you hammered out of old pipe.Oh, and experiment with different settings, different size holes and using the backer on scrap first.Have fun Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:First off, is there any insulating material up in the roof within the cab?  Plastic or cloth ceiling????  Remove that first before welding (aka:fire).  Otherwise I would avoid mig and just sand it smooth with a 120 grit flap disc and use a dab of "Bondo" auto body repair.  That's what it's for.  When dry, hand sand it smooth and since the truck is a "beater," just hit it with your rattle can paint.  Easy.Lincoln Power Mig 216Lincoln AC/DC-225/125Miller  625 X-Treme PlasmaMiller 211 Forney 95FI-A 301HF 91110Victor Journeyman O/PMilwaukee DaytonMakita  Baileigh NRA Life Member
Reply:Originally Posted by SuperArcFirst off, is there any insulating material up in the roof within the cab?  Plastic or cloth ceiling????  Remove that first before welding (aka:fire).  Otherwise I would avoid mig and just sand it smooth with a 120 grit flap disc and use a dab of "Bondo" auto body repair.  That's what it's for.  When dry, hand sand it smooth and since the truck is a "beater," just hit it with your rattle can paint.  Easy.
Reply:Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Bubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:There is a headliner there that will pull down during the welding. Having never had the headliner down I don't know if I will have access to the holes on the inside.I don't want to use bondo. I'd rather practice welding them. I did plan on using bodt filler to smooth it out though. But id rather have it solidly plugged than use bondo that may shake out over time. If I can get to the holes from the inside what about running a screw in from the inside and welding from the outside then grinding it smooth?Read that from another sight while googling "welding sheet metal screw holes".Appreciate all the input!
Reply:Originally Posted by mkattsThere is a headliner there that will pull down during the welding. Having never had the headliner down I don't know if I will have access to the holes on the inside.I don't want to use bondo. I'd rather practice welding them. I did plan on using bodt filler to smooth it out though. But id rather have it solidly plugged than use bondo that may shake out over time. If I can get to the holes from the inside what about running a screw in from the inside and welding from the outside then grinding it smooth?Read that from another sight while googling "welding sheet metal screw holes".Appreciate all the input!
Reply:Haha. No thanks on using lead.
Reply:Ok. Thanks! I'll try it that way with the copper. Will have to get creative with how to hold it in place. Nobody to lend a hand. I'm sure I can come up with something. The holes on the A pillars will be a challenge.  I know there is no access to that outside wall to get something behind it. May have just try it. I did get some 18 guage steel today. So I will practice a bit on that.
Reply:I would put the screws in the holes leaving some of the head evposed, then cut the head off flush with the body. The cutting wheel should skin the paint off down to bare metal, yhen weld the spot where the hole was . The backer thing works well but in your situation it would be a PITA to bet to that area.Miller xmt304,  Miller S22 p12, Miier Maxstar SD, Miller 252 w 30A, Miller super32p12, Lincoln Ranger 9, Thermal Arc 181I with spoolgun, Hypertherm 10000 ,Smith torches. Esab 161lts miniarc.
Reply:I am assuming this is a visor that was over the windshield? If so welding around the windshield is Not a good idea, you should remove the windshield (or have it removed)  least the heat cause the windshield to crack on you. If you sand down the area where the holes are to bare metal and use a good brand of short strand fiberglass filler and push it into the holes and then sand the filler level with the rest of the sheet metal and refinish (paint) it will last far longer than you most likely plan on owning the truck.
Reply:The welds will shrink, distorting the panel.
Reply:Fiberglass is an.idea I hadn't considered. Will have to think about that one too. Thanks!
Reply:Originally Posted by hazelbeizThe welds will shrink, distorting the panel
Reply:Remember to protect the glass from sparks - the sparks will etch the glass.My old boss sparked all over his wife's car windshield while grinding one day - ruined it.Dave J.Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance. ~George Bernard Shaw~ Syncro 350Invertec v250-sThermal Arc 161 and 300MM210DialarcTried being normal once, didn't take....I think it was a Tuesday.
Reply:Originally Posted by mkattsI def do NOT have "skills". This is my first adventure into body work. But, the saving grace here is my truck is a "beater/experiment" wher eI don't much care if it looks pretty. Heck, I roughed up the factory paint with 80 grit and rattle canned the whole thing to a satin black. Eventually I intend to cover the whole cab with bed liner. It is a daily driver, but will also see trails and rocks so a pretty paint job is out of the question. If it gets nicked and dinged, I will just repaint that spot! haha.So as long as I can plug the whole permanetly and grind is semi smooth, I will be happy with the result. My only fear was blowing thru the sheet metal and making the hole bigger.
Reply:Originally Posted by Sputter FizzleBased on the above information you should drill some holes in your wife's car to practice on.
Reply:Braze over the holes with silicon bronze rod and a TIG or OA torch and some borax. You won't get the distortion of welding, and it'll work just fine and takes paint great.
Reply:i would suggest some off the shelf chemical filler, unless you are looking for a welding project. There are machinable "steel" paste and puttys in addition to bondo.
Reply:I had the same,  and took a small ball peen hammer, and put the ball on the hole and tapped it and dinged it below the surface of the sheet metal  and then (I used Geocel, a excellent clear caulk, cures hard and is paintable) figured it I would ever repaint I would do the body filler and paint, it has been that way for about 10 years now, If your going to weld find a old door panel or hood or such and practice first,  don't start out on your truck or car,  and it is amazing on how long a car can burn,  my son was working on making a demo derby car, a number of years ago and set one on fire, cutting or welding, before he got all the interior out,  I do not think it ever was ran in the Derby,
Reply:I had to close up a bunch of holes that had been drilled in the hood of a forklift.  I accessed the underside of the hood and sanded the paint away around each hole about 3/4" around the hole.Then I stuck some Scotch tape over the holes on the top side of the hood.  Then I flipped the hood upside down again and mixed some JB Weld and applied it over each hole, forcing it to flow against the tape using a small plastic squeegee.  When it cured, there was just a very slight bump over each hole on the outside of the hood.  I sanded the bumps slightly and painted the spots with some touch up spray paint.  Not really "show quality" stuff but would work OK for an old beater ride.
Reply:Take your clue from post #8 . . . solder is the way to close the holes . . . they are small enough . . . anything smaller than 1/8 inch.  You can use regular 50/50 lead core solder and a large soldering gun or iron.  No need to remove the windshield, no shrinking.  Before starting, I would hammer the burr anound the hole flat, then just clean, solder and file smooth.Dynasty 300DXSmith He/Ar gas mixerMM350PHobart Handler 120Smith LW7, MW5, AW1AOriginally Posted by mkattsFiberglass is an.idea I hadn't considered. Will have to think about that one too. Thanks!
Reply:I will consider every solution that the nice people here have taken their time to reply with. Right this minute I'm considering the kb weld route. Would be the cheapest and fastest solution if it works.
Reply:JB should work fine.  Here's some (okay, a lot) of pointers on epoxy that might help.1.  Get the mixing ratio exact as you can and make twice as much as you think you need.  The more you mix, the less error in the ratio.  If you're "off" you will either get a brittle or overly soft cure, neither of which you want.2.  When you mix it, a chemical reaction starts and it accellerates.  Once it starts to set up on you, and you're not done filling holes, toss that batch and mix a new batch to finish up.3.  Epoxy is very sensitive to temperatures in how fast the reaction goes and how long it takes to cure.  If it's hot out it will start "kicking" (setting up) faster.  On the other hand, if it's cold out it can take a long time to cure.  Let it cure for a good day or two before you start sanding it, longer if the weather is cooler.  Don't even try in cold weather (whatever the package says is "cold")4.  It's cheap and easy to sand down, so over fill on both sides of the hole.  You want it to set up like the shape of a rivet so it stays put.5.  It can be a little runny, so if you can put a loose square of tape over the bottom, it'll help keep it in place and allow the JB to mushroom out but not sag.6.  You might also look at epoxy putty (or some of Bondo products).  It's simply super thickened epoxy or polyester that you work like play dough to mix the two clay like parts.  Sets up the same.7.  Once it sets up and you go to sanding, wear a mask.  Most folks aren't allergic but can be and you can also build up an allergy to epoxy.  Best not to breath the dust unless it's fully cured, like over a week in warm weather.Good luck.  I get your desire to weld the holes, but I really think you'll find the epoxy / bondo route a LOT less frustrating.  Plus if it goes badly, it's soooo easy to sand or file it off and not have made a mess.
Reply:Nice. Thanks!
Reply:Rodj      The 'fiberglass' I suggested is SHORT strand fiberglass BODY filler such as UPOL Fiberal or Evercoats products readily available at any auto parts store and not what you are thinking of such as you'd use on a boat with mat or cloth. We have a person here that has from his posts very little body work experience and most likely few available tools. Myself I would use lead solder to fill the holes such as was suggested earlier using a soldering iron. But the OP appears to have some aversion to lead. Short strand fiberglass body filler is MUCH more forgiving for a novice with respect to getting the activator metered out precisely than is something like an epoxy unless the epoxy is metered via an application 'gun'. The short strand fiberglass filler also typically has no talc in it- being just resin and the fiberglass thus waterproof. With a putty spreader you can easily force it in the holes and the glass will hook on the edges of the hole to both hold it in place and keep from dripping out the back side.   The UPOL product I mentioned comes in a squeeze tube so it is very easy to squeeze out just what you need. Spreads easily and sands nicely and all that I now use. And for this application would be comparable in ease of use to JB weld or similar.
Reply:Ah, very cool.  I have not used that.  The way I viewed it, I imagined separate fiberglass embedded (imbedded?) in epoxy.  Makes sense that they have a premix short strand product. Sounds like it just acts as a bulk filler to make the epoxy non sagging instead of structural like woven glass would. There are some epoxies that are more tolerant of mixing ratios but I just wanted him to know that it's important. I'm going to look for that product as I have used Bondo in the past to repair rotted spots of clap board on my old house.  A waterproof filler would be much better for outdoor application.Yes, I used Bondo on my house... And I was the one poking fun atstone OP... My bad.  DOH! Thanks!
Reply:For the record, I don't have an aversion to lead. I was focused mainly on not having a torch or the wood spoon, or flux, etc, etc. I have auto mechanic experience. Been working on cars since I could crawl. I have mechanics tools, but just now starting very simple body work type stuff and I am not looking to make a show car. I just want them water tight and I will hit them with primer and satin black when it sures. But at the same time, I want to use it as a learing tool since I don't really care it's not glass smooth.There are as many choices for a solution to this as there are people on this forum.I appreciate everyone's input.For the first go round, I am going to use JB Weld and see how it goes. I am hoping I can get to these holes from the inside once I pull down the headliner. That way, once it cures, I ca spray it with water and watch for leaks.Eastwood Mig135