OXY vs TIG weld planishing

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I was watching a metal shaping vid from across the pond and he had demonstrated that Oxy welding produces a weld bead that was easier to hammer on and in turn causes less distortion at the seam.Just wondering what others thought.Thanks
Reply:Originally Posted by Danny XI was watching a metal shaping vid from across the pond and he had demonstrated that Oxy welding produces a weld bead that was easier to hammer on and in turn causes less distortion at the seam.Just wondering what others thought.Thanks
Reply:Common question, unfortunately usually answered by people versed in only one method of welding. Being someone of some skill with both torch and tig and sheet work in general, it is true that the "gas" welds are easier to work out and move as desired. Less skilled people at the torch seem to make a mess of things and blame the tool, however many of the top sheet guys use it. I assume you are talking about steel as well, for aluminum its a no-brainer.
Reply:I wonder how much the difference was caused by using a different filler.RG45 (a typical gas welding rod) is certainly softer than ER70-S2 (a typical GTAW rod).
Reply:Aluminium discussed here... http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=39654Not really an oxy fuel versus TIG thread but there's a brief comparison here... http://weldingweb.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=23036Pretty much what Makoman said although i generally see the two processes as a bit more of a '6 of one half a dozen of the other' a lot of the time... with steel the difference in cooling rate appears to make the biggest difference with regards to workability of the panel. TIG with er70s-6 should (on paper) be harder than with er70s-2 due to the extra silicon but doesn't appear to be a noticable difference when planishing out welds. Can typically get away with less filler using oxyfuel so there's less excess material to lose as well but you're more likely to have a bit more distortion to work out. For a skilled panel beater distortion just isn't an issue (knowledge of where to place joints etc) most of the time and besides the torch is more useful for things like heat shrinking 'oil canned' spots annealing ally and the like so why bother dragging out the TIG...
Reply:I would concur with MakoMan's assessment.I'm guessing that the video was one of "The Rons" (Covell or Fournier, both of which produce the best informational videos on metalshaping).  I would also follow up on the filler selection for gas welding.  My preference is RG45.  It is softer and both crushes easier and files better than RG60 and definitely easier than ER70xx MIG or TIG wire.While it is true that TIG does induce a lower HAZ to the panel, there in is another flaw.  The gas welds tend to anneal better as they cool and therefore make a "softer" weld.  Back to Mako's contention about familiarity with the processes.  Heat and warpage control with a gas rig come with practice and time.  Since you are taking the time to "planish" your welds, I am assuming you wish to metal finish the panel?  If so then the warpage will decrease as you hammer the welds and stretch the metal back.  The warpage left in a panel is a function of the metal drawing into the weld as it cools.  Work in small increments, moving from weld site to weld site and planish the weld as you go.  Many million electrons have been massacred over the years discussing this topic and you will find their remains at places like the Metal Shapers Assn. www.allshops.org (archives) and the new forum http://metalshapers.org/roundtable/RogerOld, Tired, and GRUMPYSalesman will call, Batteries not included, Assembly is required, and FREE ADVICE IS WORTH EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAY FOR IT!Dial Arc 250HFThunderbolt 225 AC/DCAssorted A/O torches
Reply:Originally Posted by Rog02I would concur with MakoMan's assessment.I'm guessing that the video was one of "The Rons" (Covell or Fournier, both of which produce the best informational videos on metalshaping).  I would also follow up on the filler selection for gas welding.  My preference is RG45.  It is softer and both crushes easier and files better than RG60 and definitely easier than ER70xx MIG or TIG wire.While it is true that TIG does induce a lower HAZ to the panel, there in is another flaw.  The gas welds tend to anneal better as they cool and therefore make a "softer" weld.  Back to Mako's contention about familiarity with the processes.  Heat and warpage control with a gas rig come with practice and time.  Since you are taking the time to "planish" your welds, I am assuming you wish to metal finish the panel?  If so then the warpage will decrease as you hammer the welds and stretch the metal back.  The warpage left in a panel is a function of the metal drawing into the weld as it cools.  Work in small increments, moving from weld site to weld site and planish the weld as you go.  Many million electrons have been massacred over the years discussing this topic and you will find their remains at places like the Metal Shapers Assn. www.allshops.org (archives) and the new forum http://metalshapers.org/roundtable/
Reply:Thanks for the quick replies!“My preference is RG45. It is softer and both crushes easier and files better than RG60 and definitely easier than ER70xx MIG or TIG wire.”That’s kinda what I was trying to find out. Which would be easier to crush and grind afterward.The DVD is by David Garner and the Title is "Body Work Restoration".David used The [OXY] torch to tack sheets together. Than used fusion (I might have this part wrong) to join the pieces which admittedly he mentioned would leave some undercutting (no filler/rod). He went on in some places to use pieces of the aluminum he trimmed away as filler. I intend to use steel as opposed to aluminum.Emphasis seemed to be placed on the penetration effect as far as how even on either side of the panel which would cause distortion when planishing the weld. He used a body file to dress the weld down but wasn’t sure if Tig or Oxy would leave the weld more or less easier to work with.Anyhow this video was easy to understand. I’m looking forward to my hammers and dolly’s to arrive so I can put some of these methods to practice.
Reply:That was an interesting vid.  What he did show was correct as one method, but there is always more than one way to skin a door and in the 40 years I have been slapping tin, I have found that it is necessary to know more than one way to do everything.After watching the English video I found one by Kent White, AKA the TinMan.  It appears he has posted several instructional videos on his youtube channel.  http://www.youtube.com/user/tinmantechJust a word of caution about buying videos from overseas suppliers.  Equipment nomenclature, material specs, and just plain old English will be confusing unless you are fully comfortable living in the economy of the country of origin.  Over my lifetime as an airport bum I have been ex-pat a few times.  I got to apprentice on the English wheel under an old Scots Highlander that learned his craft wheeling leading edges for Spitfires during the "Blitz".  Communications was a struggle at best  My fiance is a lovely Scots lass that loves to point out that while she speaks "The Queen's English" I on the other hand tend to yabber fluent "Redneck"RogerOld, Tired, and GRUMPYSalesman will call, Batteries not included, Assembly is required, and FREE ADVICE IS WORTH EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAY FOR IT!Dial Arc 250HFThunderbolt 225 AC/DCAssorted A/O torches
Reply:Does RG45 filler rod come in diameters smaller than 1/16"?  (If so, does anyone know a source?)  Thx
Reply:No, 1/16 is it, and I cant see why anything smaller would be useful. The filler acts as a heat sink while welding and having an ultra small filler can lead to a larger HAZ.
Reply:When TIG welding body panels with a tight fit-up, a smaller diameter filler wire can reduce panel warping and distortion, because it can allow a smaller puddle and lower heat input.
Reply:Originally Posted by jakeruWhen TIG welding body panels with a tight fit-up, a smaller diameter filler wire can reduce panel warping and distortion, because it can allow a smaller puddle and lower heat input.
Reply:Originally Posted by Donald BranscomThat may be true, but the oxy -actelene welding on sheet steel in itself could cause a lot of warpage/distortion compared to TIG welding which has less heat input.Depends on how the torch was adjusted also.That question would have to answered by someone very skilled and experienced with a planishing hammer.Interesting question.You said "weld bead" what was the filler metal being used?Would have been nice to have a link to that video. If it was on the internet.
Reply:Originally Posted by Danny XI was watching a metal shaping vid from across the pond and he had demonstrated that Oxy welding produces a weld bead that was easier to hammer on and in turn causes less distortion at the seam.Just wondering what others thought.Thanks
Reply:Originally Posted by makoman1860Yes, thats tig. RG45 is an O/A filler, the world is a bit different. BTW dont use RG45 with tig, it does not contain all the deoxidizers and such that the tig process needs to function well.
Reply:Originally Posted by Rog02While it is true that TIG does induce a lower HAZ to the panel, there in is another flaw.  The gas welds tend to anneal better as they cool and therefore make a "softer" weld.