what settings for joing rods at right angles?

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I need to weld two 1/4" diameter aluminum rods together at right angles, into a T shape.I have notched (radiused) the end of the upright so there is no gap at the intersection.I want the narrowest weld I can get away with.Clearly I'm not going to use the suggested settings for a 1/4" fillet (not that my syncro 200 has the snot for that anyway), in fact the weld is a  fillet in some places and a butt weld in others, creating more confusion about what would be appropriate.What settings would you start with?JoeMiller Syncrowave 200Mac/Miller MW130 MIGKalamazoo bandsawCincinnati Arrow 500 VMCColchester Dominion 15 x 36 lathe with 2 axis DRO
Reply:111 views and no one has any opinion on what amperage to start at?It just seems like welding round to round changes things.The settings for 1/4" plate would turn 1/4" round stock into a molten blob in no time.Start reducing the amperage and there's not enough heat to weld the fillet.Question, if I start the weld on "the side" (where it is essentially a butt weld) will I be able to continue dragging the bead around "the end" (where it is a fillet) at an amperage significantly less than if I tried to start at the end (fillet) part of the weld?Regardless, I suspect there's no way I could do it in one pass (logistics aside, suppose I had a rotary table) being as the part wout turn to mush before I got all the way around, with so little mass to carry away the heat?C'mon I know some of you experts know just how to do this.JoeMiller Syncrowave 200Mac/Miller MW130 MIGKalamazoo bandsawCincinnati Arrow 500 VMCColchester Dominion 15 x 36 lathe with 2 axis DRO
Reply:need to tell what size and type of weld  rod you plan to use.miller thunderbolt 250vlincoln square wave tig 175 prolincoln idealarc mig sp250everlast tig 210EXTeverlast power plasma 50chicago electric (hf) 130 tig/90 arcchicago electric 90 amp flux wire3 sets oxy/acet
Reply:Im being serious bud, not being a wise guy. If you dont know how to weld that, keep practicing and let someone else doi it. When you know how to do it, you know how to do it. End of story, you wouldnt have to ask. I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:I can't speak for all those who've read the orig post but I for one am confused. With 5 digit$ worth of tools listed in your signature I'd think after a couple of trials on somesacrificial scrap you'd nail it pretty close.I'd think you have to use enough amperage like it's a butt weld and back off the pedal after the puddle started. Using something like 1/16 filler, or smaller, or no filler if the fit up can be made perfect. And having a second personspin the unit slowly against a grounded table after it's tacked or rigging up some way for you to rotate it you could do itclean in one pass. I imagine I am less experienced than you so my input can only be of so much value, but you asked for responses. I also think that you'd have an easier time controlling theheat on a 1/4" bar if it wasn't done in one full pass. I'd F up at least 6' of stock trying to get it neat and clean andwrite down my setting as I go and then look back through them.I'd then probably end up drilling and tapping down from the topof the tee and put a small machine screw down in there,fill the hole with jb weld and ask everyone if they could find my awesomely small weld!! How do you know the blacksmith's dog? When you hollar at him he makes a bolt for the door!
Reply:"I can't speak for all those who've read the orig post but I for one am confused. With 5 digit$ worth of tools listed in your signature I'd think after a couple of trials on somesacrificial scrap you'd nail it pretty close."As for how much money I've spent on equipment, that's rather immaterial to the question.I make six figures on my day job and just started welding as a hobby. I can afford to buy decent equipment... what does that have to do with my level of experience?"Im being serious bud, not being a wise guy. If you dont know how to weld that, keep practicing and let someone else doi it. When you know how to do it, you know how to do it. End of story, you wouldnt have to ask."Wow, that was helpful. Thanks for taking the time to reply. Could it be you didn't answer my question because you don't know? What did you hope to contribute with your answer? I had already welded 3 of them by the time I originally posted.1/16 2% lanthanated electrode, 1/16 4043 filler, 90A, 15 CFH.I just think the welds look hugely out of proportion to the stock size, and wanted to see what someone with experience would have suggested if they were attacking it. Apparently that was too much to ask. You see, as a machinist/tool and die maker in a past career, I could easily (and would happily) answer most intelligently posed and well articulated questions an inexperienced user might ask, such ashow fast shout I run a high speed steel drill in 01 tool steel orwhat is the faster machining strategy for blind pocketing in 6061 aluminum, should I drill then plunge straight in with the end mill or ramp in with a center cutting end mill.I guess in the future I won't even ask.JoeLast edited by scudzuki; 03-20-2012 at 12:31 AM.Miller Syncrowave 200Mac/Miller MW130 MIGKalamazoo bandsawCincinnati Arrow 500 VMCColchester Dominion 15 x 36 lathe with 2 axis DRO
Reply:That was not my intention Skud. I stated that I was not trying to be scarcastic, but a computer does not show expression. It seemed at least to me that you were confused as to what you should do, and in a panic to get the job done asap. That was my reason for my response. The way you pitched it madet see like you were unsure of yourself. Thats all bud. Glad you got it done, but at least on my alf there was a communication barrier there.I hate being bi-polar it's awsomeMy Heroes Have Always Been Cowboys
Reply:This is exactly the kind of thing that I pull my OA rig out for.  Simple to use, super clean weld bead, very tight control and on this size metal it is plenty fast for my taste.  I think I would go with a 0 or 00 victor torch at about 5psi on both gasses.Hobart LX235Victor 250 Oxy-Acetylene Rig (welding and cutting)Bobcat 773F-350, 1999, 4x4, 16' 10K# trailerOutdoor Wood Burner - 10 cords/year
Reply:As for how much money I've spent on equipment, that's rather immaterial to the question.Not exactly. For example take this hypothetical sentence: "I have a boatload of money and just bought a drag car that has ran in the six second range but I have an issue doing a proper burnout, anyone want to help?"I make six figures on my day job and just started welding as a hobby. I can afford to buy decent equipment...Then spend some of that money on quality courses and training. You did ask for replies even though many read your post and didn't reply. Or spend it on gas, consumables, and scrap and give it an honest effort. Trial and error has taught many, probably even a few machinists.Wow, that was helpful. Thanks for taking the time to reply. Could it be you didn't answer my question because you don't know? What did you hope to contribute with your answer?I'd imagine that he's suggesting that you try and practice the weld you're asking about. Obviously you haven't done much of that by your response of:I had already welded 3 of them by the time I originally posted.I just think the welds look hugely out of proportion to the stock size, and wanted to see what someone with experience would have suggested if they were attacking it. Apparently that was too much to ask. From me: I'd think you have to use enough amperage like it's abutt weld and back off the pedal after the puddle started.Using something like 1/16 filler, or smaller, or no filler if thefit up can be made perfect. And having a second personspin the unit slowly against a grounded table after it's tackedor rigging up some way for you to rotate it you could do itclean in one pass. I did try to keep your post current and supply a reply as best I could. As I stated I am also an inexperienced welder but do have fun with the trial and error aspect because I am constantly learning with every attempt, good or bad.I guess in the future I won't even ask.Feel free and comfortable to continue asking questions,but in the future but either get thick skin for the replies or put on your big girl panties first.Sorry If I am coming off as an a$$ (not trying to start a fued)How do you know the blacksmith's dog? When you hollar at him he makes a bolt for the door!
Reply:Not a pro Skud, but if you want me to opine...Change to a 3/32 Lanthanated or ceriated.  On your Synchro, you can't adjust AC frequency, so you're stuck with the arc you get.  Gring the tungsten to a point and tack it on the butt weld sides first.  If you keep your arc length tight, your bead may be smaller.   I'd turn your amps up to max and use the pedal to adjust.  I never thought I'd be doing the same, but I generally turn my machine up near max amps and use the pedal for almost all the adjustment like others here have said.  It just gives you more control.  Preheat with a propane torch if you want the bead to get going faster.  It's 1/4", but it's only bar so there's not much to pull heat away.Adjust your stick out for the correct stick out for the filet part of the weld.   Be prepared to dip the tungsten.  I find round tubing one of the toughest to control arc length on.  I think that with your machine, you're stuck with the bead you get.  If you had a Dynasty 350 with alot of balls and the option to crank the AC frequency to 400 Hz, you could probably get a tiny bead-but with alot more experience than either you or I have. Sorry to ramble.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Originally Posted by that'll_buff_outI'd think you have to use enough amperage like it's a butt weld and back off the pedal after the puddle started. Using something like 1/16 filler, or smaller, or no filler if the fit up can be made perfect.
Reply:scud,This is the type question/response that upsets the experienced welders. So many of the newcomers/hobby welders we see on the board are looking to be "spoon fed", rather than "giving it a try til they get it right".If you'd followed a "building block" process in learning tig fundamentals (heat control, arc length, tungsten size, filler used, etc, etc) you'd already be able to answer your own questions.The weld you describe is not an "easy weld" for a beginner.  Believe it or not, but how you approach it is somewhat machine (transformer/inverter) dependent.  Being as how you're using a transformer, the arc focus you see is what you get (no freq adjustment).Amps, arc length, and filler size (use as small as possible) are the things you can control.  No one can "tell you" the exact way to do it.What questions such as this do is generate a lot of response from posters who probably don't know any more than you do, giving you a bunch of BS advice that will only confuse you further.  That's occured here.Have you even tried the same weld with mild steel rod?  When you can do this weld, in your sleep, on mild steel, THEN it's time to tackle the aluminum.PS.  Telling someone to set their amps to max (for a delicate weld) is pure BS.  What you're doing in this case is "reducing" the amount of control you have over the weld.  When setting the machine to max, output, full pedal travel will control from 0-200A.  When set to say 120A, full pedal travel will control from 0-120A.  The pedal will be much more responsive to the amps you really need if set to about 10% more than you think you'll need,  This results in better amp control. (Hope that makes sense)Stop looking for "cookie cutter" solutions and melt some metal and find what works for you.There are definitely times when it's advisable to turn to the board's experience to gain insight into how to attack a difficult weld/process, but this isn't one of them.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:I dont really know anthing about tig to be any help with TIG, but I see this question as something relatively simple that someone COULD help him with but instead piled on for giggles. your observations that he should take a class or judging him based on tools is pretty petty. I doubt if I had a one off thing to make that was slightly past my depth I would want to take a class to get past it either. I didn't realize this board was so anti-hobbyist, good to know. in True  hypocritical fashion, People are told to buy the best you can afford, then when he does, you tell him his toys are too nice and he shouldn't need help. I really dont get the vibe of this forum sometimes, unless its intended for professionals only? sorry to thread jack, but glad you sorted your rods, its a shame the best advise on a starting point you could get was "figure it out for yourself", you weren't out of line for asking IMO. anyone know of a good pro-hobbyist welding/metalworking forum I can move to?Hobart Handler 190 Century 90amp on FluxCraftsman 200amp buzzbox
Reply:OK RYF,Since you asked/commented.Start with 1" aluminum rods.  Learn to be proficient there.  Amp control, tungsten prep, filler material, movement around the joint, etc.  When you can do this weld successfully, move down to smaller (more difficult) material.Don't enter a marathon until you can run a mile.I guess I missed it where ANYONE condemned him for his choice of machine.Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:To clarify my statements, I turn the amp control up to 50 amps above what you would weld with as a max.  So in this case, I'd have no problem turning my machine to 200A, stomping on the pedal to get the narrowest HAZ possible, then coming off the pedal to run a bead.Had to clarify after the usual comments from the "Wizard of Oz" of welding.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Originally Posted by RyfI dont really know anthing about tig to be any help with TIG, but I see this question as something relatively simple that someone COULD help him with but instead piled on for giggles. your observations that he should take a class or judging him based on tools is pretty petty. I doubt if I had a one off thing to make that was slightly past my depth I would want to take a class to get past it either. I didn't realize this board was so anti-hobbyist, good to know. in True  hypocritical fashion, People are told to buy the best you can afford, then when he does, you tell him his toys are too nice and he shouldn't need help. I really dont get the vibe of this forum sometimes, unless its intended for professionals only? sorry to thread jack, but glad you sorted your rods, its a shame the best advise on a starting point you could get was "figure it out for yourself", you weren't out of line for asking IMO. anyone know of a good pro-hobbyist welding/metalworking forum I can move to?
Reply:For those put off by some of the replies, my 2 centavos as a relative new comer to this board and a certified Bed Frame Welder (TM) (aka hobbyist) is don't come on here asking a question to be spoon fed and then get pissy when no one responds.   Maybe it's your stupid question. There seems to be a run of this kind of stuff going on and it's tiresome.  Put some friggin sweat equity into your question before posting things like this, and for the love of all things holy, stop making snide comments like "What, 111 views and no one has a reply?"Hell yes there's no replies, otherwise you'd SEE a reply. Asking questions is understandable AFTER you've RTFM and done a little researched and TRIED to do the weld.  How on earth did any of these experts become experts?  They screwed up some metal, ground it out and tried again.  Most welders I know of don't just set up and start burning iron on something they've never tried.  If you don't know enough about what you're doing to do the same, then TAKE SOME CLASSES.  But don't get all wet in the nose and crybaby about it.   Lazy people will get out of it exactly what they put into it.  And frankly they ought not even get that.Frankly, if it's so damn important then take your project to a pro and PAY for their experience.  Off my soap box.
Reply:Damn.I been cloned.Even though I gave it a thought, I tried to be very diplomatic (Politically correct).Syncro 250 DX Dynasty 200 DXMM 251 w/30A SG XMT 304 w/714 Feeder & Optima PulserHH187Dialarc 250 AC/DCHypertherm PM 1250Smith, Harris, Victor O/ASmith and Thermco Gas MixersAccess to a full fab shop with CNC Plasma, Water Jet, etc.
Reply:Originally Posted by Donoharmplease stop giving welding advise.
Reply:I understood the question as he was trying to figure out how to plan for the preheating that comes from welding something like that, I dont weld rod, I weld alot of tube and angle and thought it was an interesting question.I dont think asking for tips from people who are more experienced is being spoon fed, I think its respecting the knowledge possessed and looking to tap into that knowledge in a place that was created to do just that, share knowledge and ideas. would it have helped if he had posted pics? what are the defining lines between spoon feeding and mentoring?Hobart Handler 190 Century 90amp on FluxCraftsman 200amp buzzbox
Reply:Spoon feeding question: "C'mon I know some of you experts know just how to do this."Non-spoon feeding: "I tried out the weld on some scrap and am having trouble with ____ after using these settings.  Tried ____ but that didn't work because ____.  Any ideas?"Part of my tirade was instigated by another post by a real a-hole just yesterday/today.  There's some sense of entitlement that comes through on more and more posts lately that is really tiresome, and more important to the poster, that isn't going to generate much help.Entitled / Rude "111 views and no one has any opinion on what amperage to start at?"Appropriate "Bump - anyone have some suggestions or a reference?"
Reply:Thanks to all who have responded, and even more to those who have attempted to offer something more helpful than "go figure it out yourself".I'll come back in a few years when I've become proficient enough to not have to ask silly newb questions.Actually, by then, I won't need to come back.JoeMiller Syncrowave 200Mac/Miller MW130 MIGKalamazoo bandsawCincinnati Arrow 500 VMCColchester Dominion 15 x 36 lathe with 2 axis DRO
Reply:Grab your sack and read.  No one said go figure it out yourself, they said need more info, try some test welds, watch out you'll get some dumb answers unless you provide more info, and be polite (me).I sincerely hope you reconsider your attitude and hurt feelings.  I'm not the moderator of this place and far from the majority.  Plus plenty of people had some advice.  You at least owe it to the people YOU think were helpful to provide some feed back on what worked and what didn't.  If you don't do that, then, well, what conclusion should anyone draw?Seriously, good luck.  I actually mean it and wish you success.  Otherwise I would have completely skipped over and figured you weren't worth the time to type a response.
Reply:anyone ever see a cow try to get up and step on a tit?
Reply:Originally Posted by RodJGrab your sack and read.  No one said go figure it out yourself, they said need more info, try some test welds, watch out you'll get some dumb answers unless you provide more info, and be polite (me).I sincerely hope you reconsider your attitude and hurt feelings.  I'm not the moderator of this place and far from the majority.  Plus plenty of people had some advice.  You at least owe it to the people YOU think were helpful to provide some feed back on what worked and what didn't.  If you don't do that, then, well, what conclusion should anyone draw?Seriously, good luck.  I actually mean it and wish you success.  Otherwise I would have completely skipped over and figured you weren't worth the time to type a response."Welding Web-Welding Forum for Pro's and Enthusiasts"I think it's for everyone, hense the name.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:I realize the thread is a bit old and the project over but my thoughts...A welded 1/4" solid ally?You have 3 elements there maybe one is not ideal?Welded...your a machinist , wouldn't be hard for yourself to scallop and tap into one and drill and countersink the other?  Could well be stronger.Ally? Does it have to be Ally? SS will blend weld well with Tig and if strength is an issue you can do it with filler , the weld will look better , it will be smaller , your not going to be able to avoid a proportionally big weld in ALLY with 1/4" solid.1/4" can it be a bigger section at the weld then turned down?Just thoughtsBrettLast edited by Brett; 03-31-2012 at 06:25 PM.A good guess is better than a bad measurement
Reply:Well it looks like everybody has shown their A$$ on this topic.  This is typically a friendly and helpful site.  If you really want to be flamed go to  a site like Eclipse or something with a bunch of kids.  If you pick through the crap there is some good advice here.  Current settings tried and consumable etc when asking. Pictures are nice, it's hard to communicate everything in words, specially for those who don't read so good!  A little patience and humility to help stroke the ego of the cyber experts.  Everybody forgets they were a newb.  Welding takes skill and all the equipment in the world wont outdo experience and practice.  Oh and I would be remiss if I didn't recommend ceriated tungsten sharpened as the shiznit for welding aluminum.