This Is What You Get For Steel In A New $400K Condo

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I am just amazed at the crap people get away with, this is the steel in my MIL's new condoYou think they would run the beam over to the wall and have it in a pocket right?This butchered mess of crapDisclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:I've seen a lot of goofy *** **** like that.  Usually what causes it, is the house was originally designed to sit on a slab, so the load bearing walls are all over the damn place.  Then when a customer wants that house built, but with a basement, they go and scribble in some beams on the print, get an engineer's stamp on it (or not), and go to town.You didn't build that.'85 Miller AEAD-200LE
Reply:Looks like someone needs to fix that, I wouldn't want to be in a place with work like that holding it up. If you are able to see that, what about all the stuff you can't see?Airco Ac/Dc 300 HeliwelderMillerMatic 200 (stolen)Miller Maxstar 150STLMiller AEAD200LE (welding and generating power) Hobart MIG
Reply:Is the last pic stacks of metal or wood? Not that it really matters just wondering.
Reply:That stack of shims in the last picture makes you wanna puke!!  If the load is great enough to warrant that huge I-beam, then those shims amount to no more than soda crackers.  Wonder if they have any earthquakes in that area??
Reply:Damn Tozzi, and think, these people are getting paid for that excuse of work!!  You know, it's said that that is done in this country.  I can remember when tradesmen were proud of their work and their work was their signature.  Who is really at fault?  The tradesman, the inspector, the engineer?  Is the pride in workmenship have no impotence?  Just my thoughts.  Best  Bob
Reply:Hmmm looks like ****. If thats NY than it will probably rust away before anything else, with all that water they got.
Reply:Union work?I hope not.Last edited by tnjind; 11-04-2012 at 05:57 PM.Tim Beeker.
Reply:That certainly would not fly around here.Ian TannerKawasaki KX450 and many other fine tools
Reply:My guess is the beam pocket was originally figured on using wood, probably gluelams. At some point the change was made to go with steel instead. I'd guess so they could either eliminate a column in the basement, or so they could get more head room in a finished basement. Column in the bay bump out also says a change was made for some reason. Again I'm guessing they wanted to pull out a column that was in the original plans, but after they'd already poured the walls.  Again I'd bet on a carpenters fix, because most concrete guys wouldn't have a big issue cutting out a beam pocket after the wall was poured if need be. Cost  for the pocket might have been a factor also, but I'd still bet on the carpenter doing the job.Long bolts ( probably carriage bolts) and the bubblegum welds says the steel was done by the carpenters.Oh and I've seen a lot worse in homes costing WAY more money. I'll comment on that later after I get back from dinner.....No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Pic 1. Column doesn't even look plumb. Pic2. No lock washers or jamb nut. Course with quality weldments like that......... bolts are redundant.  Pic 3. "Short beam". OK it's laying there. The correct lenght would add $$$. SOOOO......... why not? Pic 4. The shims have bird poop on them to keep them nice, straight and in place??? All pic's......... Inspector was so impressed by the paint, he/she didn't "see" the rest!
Reply:That's what happen when you let granny build her own condo!  She should have hired a professional!
Reply:I worked one summer on a $3mill house in Rehoboth Beach Delaware. We got called in to complete all the trim and do the punch list after the original GC and his framers got canned. The foundation was so off it wasn't even funny. Missing 10 feet out of the floor plan... The framers just tossed the lumber down where the 1st floor plan showed and chopped the missing 10' off one side of the house. The problem was the beam in the crawlspace didn't line up with any of the piers or actually sit on the exterior wall on one side ( they shoved a 4x4 under it at the ext wall on the rat slab to support it) since the foundation guys cut the 10' out of several different areas of the house. That meant none of the columns on the first floor were supported by anything. No big deal, they were only to hold up the 2nd and 3rd floor anyhow... The 2nd floor had a belly in it so large I could get my bicep under my 6' level. Kitchen cabinets that hung from the ceiling were a nightmare to hang under that belly. There was also a 2x6 wall that was supposed to contain 2 structural 6x6 LVL columns... only they built the wall out of 2x4's and there weren't any columns or studs where the plans showed the 6x6's should be... Those were just the start of the issues....I pity the person who ended up buying the home. I've worked on a few other high dollar nightmares. Usually caused by guys who got the job with the lowest bid, and had zero idea what they were doing... Then the customer wants to know why it costs so much to fix all someone else's F ups. Unfortunately like that Delaware home many times it's almost impossible short of demoing the home at that point..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWLong bolts ( probably carriage bolts) and the bubblegum welds says the steel was done by the carpenters..
Reply:I agree with DSW, a poor substitute for where wood should have been. There is no pillaster under the beam pocket, the columns are all mollyhawked over the place. Kinda screws up the whole clear span with steel thought. The beam that ends in the bumpout just has a lally in the space now. Whatever, not my fight, I already put my 2 wooden nickles in on the subject. The fit and finish on the unit sucks, and I get a stare of death when I start picking stuff apart.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Originally Posted by TozziWeldingI am just amazed at the crap people get away with, this is the steel in my MIL's new condo(images)You think they would run the beam over to the wall and have it in a pocket right?(images)This butchered mess of crap. (image)
Reply:Tozzi:Personally I think your photographs should be published in the Boston Globe as evidence that the code inspectors are on the take.  What a corrupt bunch of useless bungholes.- MondoMember, AWSLincoln ProMIG 140Lincoln AC TombstoneCraftsman Lathe 12 x 24 c1935Atlas MFC Horizontal MillCraftsman Commercial Lathe 12 x 36 c1970- - - I'll just keep on keepin' on.
Reply:Originally Posted by MondoThe problem isn't a lack of pride in craftsmanship by the people doing the work, I'll bet the people doing that work think they did well because they just don't know how to do things right.  The problem is a lack of pride in the workmanship at the corporate management level.  They don't have any pride in the workmanship of their labor force, they have pride only in the bottom line on a ledger sheet and damn the "expense" to get there!
Reply:GOOD : FAST : CHEAPChoose two
Reply:I didn't know birds could crap upside down."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Originally Posted by KnotboredGOOD : FAST : CHEAPChoose two
Reply:Originally Posted by TozziWelding...There is no pillaster under the beam pocket, the columns are all mollyhawked over the place. ....
Reply:Like I said before... The ****'s probably all over the place because the above structure was designed to sit on a slab, so they just stuck beams under all the saggy spots and called it a day.You didn't build that.'85 Miller AEAD-200LE
Reply:Originally Posted by TozziWeldingThis butchered mess of crap
Reply:Run!  And call for a professional!It doesn’t have to be that way.I served my appreticeship in a residential shop. (Local 130 Plumbers)  It's a shame, but those are sometimes the norm. I know it's horrible but everyone is under the gun by generals and contractors. Hurry up so we can make more money. I'm sorry your Mom got that crap. I refuse to butch anything in and have gotten laid off for being that way.
Reply:looks like tile baker board or hardiplank siding - the concrete / cellulose hybrid stuff that cannot rot.  Dont think there is any approved structural use for it, let alone supporting an I beam.You would think the economy the way it is, that the hacks would be out of work and the tradesmen with heads on their shoulders would be working... seems like tjis is evidence it is the other way around.miller syncrowave 250hobart handler 140home made 400 amp engine driven in progress...
Reply:sorry tozzi i did that job I was drunk the time
Reply:Must be in Brockton.Miller Syncrowave 180Miller 211 w/ spool-gunLincoln Ac/Dc buzzboxCutmaster 38 plasmaVictor,Smith's,and Craftsman (Harris) O/A torches.DeWalt Multi cutterFiber Metal helmets(old school)Enough Snap-On to be a dealer
Reply:That brings new meaning to add a shim. Amazing, yea, the threads might only be cut from all thread rod. Is that 1/2'' ?  Well, they did paint the steel.
Reply:im going to be the voice of dissent here, i dont really see a problem.  it looks like absolute sh$t, and i would never, ever leave something like this, but that doesnt mean it isnt structurally sound.  the shim pack isnt pretty, but its where it needs to be and it is tacked together.  the tack welds combined with the load, those shims arent going to work themselves out. i can imagine a situation where shims were hammered into place to get the beam level, then once it was level, there wasnt enough room in the poket to knock them into alignment. as far as the extension of the beam to a pocket, those extra feet may well have translated into a deeper beam which could add considerable cost as well as loss of headroom.  i cant tell if the columns are out of plumb or if its the pics, that gives me the greatest concern.  that and the exposed bolts, are there any pieces of flesh and hair left clinging to any of those? gives me the heebee jeebees just thinking about snagging my head on one of those..its fun to theorize about how evil contractors that dont give a sh%t about anything are responsible and cheap people who dont care about making it right are ruining everything, but there are million different scenerios that could have led up to this, but really all the info we have is these pictures.  these pics tell me that its ugly as hell, but more importantly, they tell me the structure is still standing. of course i could be completely wrong and this whole thing is deathtrap waiting to happen, but i cant say for sure given what i see.
Reply:Originally Posted by rusty rippleim going to be the voice of dissent here, i dont really see a problem.  it looks like absolute sh$t, and i would never, ever leave something like this, but that doesnt mean it isnt structurally sound.  ....
Reply:Originally Posted by infrosorry tozzi i did that job I was drunk the time
Reply:LOL and people ask me why I don't do private work.  Not hard to tell that job went to the lowest bidder...Beck's Welding and Fabrication, Inc.-Misc. Metals Fabrication & Installation-
Reply:Obviously ugly but most of it is in compression straight down, should be alright, wouldn't put a side load on it or challenge a Tornado. LOL not much pride out there today."Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"Lincoln Idealarc 250 AC/DCMillermatic 251   Syncrowave 300   30A spoolgunLincoln MP210Hypertherm 45(2) LN 25(2) Lincoln Weldanpower 225 CV(4) SA200   1 short hood    SA250    SAM 400
Reply:Originally Posted by MondoShoddy workmanship in visible locations is a flashing beacon warning of what may be lurking in places that can't be seen.
Reply:Be glad you dont live in earthquake country.      The proper way to have made that "work" would have been a short stub column under there.    crap like this is the reason for third party inspection.Vantage 500's LN-25's, VI-400's, cobramatics, Miller migs, synch 350 LX, Powcon inverters, XMT's, 250 Ton Acurrpress 12' brake, 1/4" 10' Atlantic shear,Koikie plasma table W/ esab plasmas. marvel & hyd-mech saws, pirrana & metal muncher punches.
Reply:Did she buy the condo already built or did see buy it before it was built?ala Mike Holmes, that cant be minimum code..tackleexperts.comwww.necessityjigs.comhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/mach...dingequipment/
Reply:the pockets are probably for the right size steel but the contractor had "a piece in his shop" for the job.Miller thunderbolt 250Decastar 135ERecovering tool-o-holic ESAB OAI have been interested or involved in Electrical, Fire Alarm, Auto, Marine, Welding, Electronics ETC to name a just a few. So YES you can own too many tools.
Reply:This was all new, Toll or should I say Troll Brothers. I am not impressed, I would have alteast made a pup column where the pack of shims is, and cut the damn butter bolts they put in. Whatever, the gas piping looks nice, someone caredDisclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Toll Brothers.  Wow.  Several years ago I made an adjustable Lolly column for them.  It was inverted so they could stick it  the screw into a hole and  put concrete around it .  It only had metal tabs  on top to be folded over the  flange of beam, no welding involved in installation.  Only made one for them,  They found somebody selling them for the price I paid for metal.
Reply:Originally Posted by brucerDid she buy the condo already built or did see buy it before it was built?ala Mike Holmes, that cant be minimum code..
Reply:I've done so much rework on Troll bros. homes for customers it's not even funny. I had one customer who had 2 floor joists that they had cut clean thru, probably while framing the 2nd floor. All they did was toss the sub floor over it. No attempt to sister the damaged joists or replace them. Customer couldn't understand why their floor tile in the 1st floor kitchen kept cracking directly above the damage...Those homes look beautiful, but are built like $hit. The siding is attached to "structural cardboard". If you want to break into a Toll Bros. home, all you really need is a utility knife. Cut off the vinyl siding, cut thru the foil faced cardboard "sheathing", remove the insulation, and cut out the drywall and you are in. Stucco homes, a drywall saw would work faster than the utility knife to get thru the stucco and foam board over the card board. A big part of the reason we need drywall inspections around here is that the Toll brothers homes use drywall as their shear wall and it's a significant part of the homes structural integrity. No big surprise that when roofs fail in big storms and the walls get wet, the houses come tumbling down like many newer homes did in Katrina.Last edited by DSW; 11-12-2012 at 05:31 AM..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Very poor workmanship and very poor welding.Someone should go to jail.  Cheeeeeesssshhhh!!!!!AWS certified welding inspectorAWS certified welder
Reply:Originally Posted by TozziWeldingThe sad thing Bruce, is that is one of her favorite shows.
Reply:I'm surprised a building inspector would risk being on the take this day and time.  My wife sold a home in east Tennessee that passed inspection, and she had no issues with the home.  It was a small house that was roughly 80 years old.  A family of four purchased the home, and after a year they had some major plumbing issues with the guest bathroom.  The family had a plumber come out and completely replace all the pipes under the house.  It was around $8,000.00 to replace everything (conventional foundation).  The family hired a lawyer tried to sue my wife and the home inspector.  My wife never had any issues because she was the only one living in the house.  The judge dismissed my wife (thank goodness!), but the home inspector had to foot the bill.  I bet that guy's liability insurance went through the roof!
Reply:Municipal building inspectors are different than home inspectors as far as liability is concerned around here. I've frequently had building inspectors insist that we do things wrong simply because they don't have a clue. A family up the street from me tried to take the local building inspector to court over major issues with the addition on the home they had just bought. Even though the inspector passed the shoddy work, they have zero liability and can't be held accountable in court. The court said only the contractor was liable for the problems and he went out of business, so the home owner is screwed.As far as inspectors being on the take, I'd bet at least 1/2 the inspectors in the city of Philly will take a bribe to look the other way. I remember a few years back a local station caught 13 out of the 14  city plumbing inspectors taking money... My guess is that number 14 was on vacation when the sting happened..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:DSW, I did a gas piping job for a plumber buddy of mine. I asked the inspector what code or standard I was to weld the piping to, and all he said was "as long as it don't leak I don't care". So that is what we are dealing with.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Originally Posted by TozziWeldingDSW, I did a gas piping job for a plumber buddy of mine. I asked the inspector what code or standard I was to weld the piping to, and all he said was "as long as it don't leak I don't care". So that is what we are dealing with.
Reply:Originally Posted by SeanMurphy265I'm surprised a building inspector would risk being on the take this day and time.