making a bead

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I am having a problem doing a nice overlapping bead. I can only seem to get a long worm style bead doing any style. I have tried running slow wire speed almost to the point where it starts popping and way high speed. I dont know if i should be doing big loop or small loop style or a big w style weld. I could use alittle help on the subject and what is the cost between c25 and co2.I am running a hobart handler 187 .030 mig co2
Reply:Picts would help. It's a lot easier to try and make suggestions if we can actually see the beads. Don't forget to include the settings, material thickness etc.If I had to take a blind stab it this, I'd guess you are moving to fast and are not waiting for the puddle to build up from issues I've seen others have. Picts would really tell the story..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:ok i will get pics tomarrow but i can tell you the specs on welder.wire speed 30 heat 3 steel 1/8 inch i can see the pool real good and it looks like im doing everything right but after it dont look right.
Reply:Your settings are too low to start with most likely. 3 / 30 is the setting suggested for 1/8" with .035 FC wire. all the suggestions for 1/8" with gas are in the 5/ 30-80 range depending on wire size. You should probably be around 5/50 with your wire / gas..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by mafiacustomzI am having a problem doing a nice overlapping bead. I can only seem to get a long worm style bead doing any style. I have tried running slow wire speed almost to the point where it starts popping and way high speed. I dont know if i should be doing big loop or small loop style or a big w style weld. I could use alittle help on the subject and what is the cost between c25 and co2.I am running a hobart handler 187 .030 mig co2
Reply:well you didnt read the first post i put wire size and gas .030 mig with co2 and you dont use gas with flux wire thats a waste of gas
Reply:Originally Posted by mafiacustomzwell you didnt read the first post i put wire size and gas .030 mig with co2 and you dont use gas with flux wire thats a waste of gas
Reply:Until you get used to your machine try just making tack welds......make a tack....move your torch a bit and make another tack  (Over lapping the tack before the first one by half )  this will get you used to moving the torch after you start welding with the trigger pulled on all  the time....also watch some you tube vids of wire feed welding techniques...and push the torch instead of pull for gas coverage.......After you get good you can use other styles....  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:cuopebuilder,are you saying that you cant run straight co2 with solid wire?  you have to have a c25 mix?
Reply:It can be run, but typically it gives more (too much) penetration on thinner materials and IMHO does not produce as nice a bead as as a mix. The other mistake a lot of guys with hobby machines make is that they don't change the polarity when they switch from a shielded wire to a solid wire. "Anybody can talk $h!t behind a monitor, I let the quality of my work speak for itself"Lincoln Square Wave 255 and 355 Tig Lincoln 255 Power-Mig w/ spool gun Koike 5 x 10 CNC plasma Hyd-Mech DM-10 bandsaw Ineco QB-76 NC tube bender
Reply:i thought you were meaning it couldn't be done.  misunderstood your post.  thanks for clearing it up
Reply:Originally Posted by CoupebuilderAre you running flux core with that? That would be the only reason to run the CO2. If you are running solid wire (no flux) you should be running a C25 mix. The gas cost is not very much IIRC but I havent needed CO2 for some time. Pics would obviously help.
Reply:I worked at a "Black Iron Shop"  in the 90s that did primarily bridge retro fit work and they used dual shield........super hot and lots of fumes......The guys went through thick gloves in a week cool welds though and lots of slag laying around when done....I guess I'm spoiled with my Aluminum tig parts.....  Miller Dynasty 350Twenty Six HammersThree Crow BarsBig Rock
Reply:It's a lot easier to try and make suggestions if we can actually see the beads.
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabYou don't run gas with "flux core" wire.You run gas with "dual-shield" wire or solid wire.There is a large difference between "flux core" and "dual shield" wires and you wouldn't be running dual-shield on a Hobart 187.
Reply:Originally Posted by CoupebuilderI will beg to differ, really a matter of semantics and nothing to do with the OP so I am through after this. Here is info from two manufacturers websites and dozens more I would be happy to post. I have not run it in ages and I try to keep my mouth shut on matters I am not 100% familiar with. The Hobart usually comes with a small spool of flux core wire out of the box as do many others. DESCRIPTION: : Royalfil GS-15RB is an all position flux cored wire-having stable and smooth arc with good slag detachability using CO2 shieldAWS E71T-1 is a flux-cored wire designed to be used with CO2 gas and it’s available for all-position welding with both single and multiple pass welds on mild and 490N/mm2 high tensile steels. It provides good impact properties, less fume, stable arc, good slag release. Typical applications include shipbuilding, storage vessels, structural fabrication, machinery and piping etc.
Reply:From reading the article, it calls gas-shielded flux-cored wire what many people here call "dual shield". It looks like you are both right, just using different terms. Either way that is a good article, I learned a few things from it.
Reply:Actually I do, and I have run both, however they are both flux core wires. One is self shielding and one is gas shielded. It was a generalization. I will make sure I spell it out completely in the future so as not to confuse anyone. I'm sure we can argue about this all day but I would prefer to use my time constructively. Are we finished? "Anybody can talk $h!t behind a monitor, I let the quality of my work speak for itself"Lincoln Square Wave 255 and 355 Tig Lincoln 255 Power-Mig w/ spool gun Koike 5 x 10 CNC plasma Hyd-Mech DM-10 bandsaw Ineco QB-76 NC tube bender
Reply:Originally Posted by CoupebuilderI'm sure we can argue about this all day but I would prefer to use my time constructively.
Reply:well i guess i will put myself back into the mix. The hobart wire that came with the welder is 1lb of flux core wire NO GAS. I am not using flux core wire I am using forney .030 soild mig wire with co2 (full tank was free) after the tank is empty i will go to c25 or what ever the name is argon/co2. I think some how everyone has got stuck on the wire but we need to talk about the weld i will get pics today sometime. I will put this again i can not get a over lapping bead just the long smooth bead with any style speed or heat.
Reply:Oh come on you don't want to spend hours to delve into the minutiae of various mig wire lol?  Post some pics so we can help. Can't beat frre co2 and it has its place,  but I think you will find the bead much better with the c25 mix. With your thinner practice material it may just be too hot with the co2 to manipulate very well. Typically I weld fairly slow with lower than suggested machine settings and achieve a nice row of dimes look. "Anybody can talk $h!t behind a monitor, I let the quality of my work speak for itself"Lincoln Square Wave 255 and 355 Tig Lincoln 255 Power-Mig w/ spool gun Koike 5 x 10 CNC plasma Hyd-Mech DM-10 bandsaw Ineco QB-76 NC tube bender
Reply:thats what im looking for is the dime look the co2 might be 2 high heat to make a nice bead of dimes but it was free and i will use it till its gone. I hope i can swap the co2 for c25 without buying tank and all just the price of a refill.
Reply:Should be able to swap if its from your LWS. Don't get hung up on the row of dimes look at first, in the hands of  someone new it can be very dangerous as you can lay down what looks like a perfect weld and still be very cold. ZTFab does a pretty good job with that even if he is a grumpy, worrisome sob . Worry about good penetration, watching the puddle, learning how to make and recognize a strong weld first. The row of dimes will come in time. "Anybody can talk $h!t behind a monitor, I let the quality of my work speak for itself"Lincoln Square Wave 255 and 355 Tig Lincoln 255 Power-Mig w/ spool gun Koike 5 x 10 CNC plasma Hyd-Mech DM-10 bandsaw Ineco QB-76 NC tube bender
Reply:Originally Posted by Coupebuilder ZTFab does a pretty good job with that even if he is a grumpy, worrisome sob .
Reply:Originally Posted by ZTFabHey...speak for yourself! Coupe maybe wrong about me (and many other things )  but he is correct about learning how to make a sound weld first. Learn the basics first then the advanced techniques will follow and be easier to master.Originally Posted by CoupebuilderI was wrong about you, I thought you were a kind,caring, compassionate soul who loved his fellow weld-webbers. Now I know better. Ohhh wait you mean this forum ISN"T sponsored by Oprah?
Reply:Hmmmm I would have guessed Kleenex...you proved me wrong again, you bazzterd! "Anybody can talk $h!t behind a monitor, I let the quality of my work speak for itself"Lincoln Square Wave 255 and 355 Tig Lincoln 255 Power-Mig w/ spool gun Koike 5 x 10 CNC plasma Hyd-Mech DM-10 bandsaw Ineco QB-76 NC tube bender
Reply:Originally Posted by Coupebuilder.you proved me wrong again, you bazzterd!
Reply:Ok in the first 1 it was at welder spec 5 heat 60 wire speedIn this 1 i was trying slower speed, push pull, e, and half moon nothing good as you can see
Reply:My suggestion would be to quit worying about using fancy oscillations. You're making the process of running a  sound weld bead more complicated then needed. Until you learn how to read the weld puddle, your soundest welds are going to be produced by traveling straight along with a little side to side weave/wiggle, if needed.My attached weld bead  on 1/8" was produced with a Handler 187 running an .030 solid wire and CO². If I remember right I just traveled straight along the joint. Any side to side motion would have been a slight wiggle. At the time,  I was testing the 187 out with CO². Compared to how the unit runs with C25 I wasn't impressed, and switched back over to C25 after the hour long session was over, and never used CO² on the unit again.For comparison I attached a C25 weld bead too. Attached ImagesESAB Migmaster 250 Hobart Ironman 230Multimatic 215TWECO Fabricator 181i & 211iHH125EZ - nice little fluxcore only unitMaxstar 150 STH - very nice
Reply:I always wondered what kind of difference, if any using co2 vs c25 would make, thanks for posting these pics.Mastering others is strength, mastering yourself is true power.
Reply:ya thats what i was thinking its the gas after i use up all the co2 im going c25 but 800 psi of co2 will last some time.
Reply:well when i was out getting a 11lb spool of mig i checked on c25 prices 60cf $37.95 so when the co2 runs out i will switch to c25.
Reply:Mafia, 1st pict you posted wasn't bad overall. I'd turn the wire down slightly as the bead has a taller profile than I'd want myself. I'd shoot for 50 and see how it looked. Your travel speed is inconsistent in that 1st pict. 2nd pict center bead looks a bit more consistent, but the pict is so blury it's hard to make out any details.As always Dan, your beads show what a good mig bead should look like. For those learning, take note of the ruler straight top and bottom toes of his welds. This shows someone who is very consistent in his travel. Also look at how nice and even the bead is top to bottom. Not concave, not convex, and the toes are well wetted in. Forget all the fancy BS and practice until your welds can look like this, and everything else from that point on will be easy. Also take note he took the time to sand the material down to bare metal on both welds..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:i think its alittle easyer with a T-joint thin a flat side of some square tube. I took the pic with a camera phone i dont have a camera. I would like to add in the first pic i did not do a push pass like you should i was pulling like i was using flux cord. I think its funny you think the 2nd weld on the 2nd pic looks good i was doing a push pull style or down up i guess thats what you would call it.I would like to add the guy at the welding store asked if i was running 30 cfh of co2 when welding i thought only 5-7 cfh of co2.
Reply:Nah, flat should be about the easiest thing to do.  T-joints can be a bit more difficult.  Once you get the hang of it both will become very easy, but Dan's second picture is still a super nice mig weld!