New Vs. Used Lincoln AC225?

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I am looking to buy a stick welder, and have narrowed it down to the "buzzbox" as so many people call them. I am the type of person who prefers purchasing new, to guarantee the item has not be abused and is in great shape(as I take very good care of my tools). However, I was recently informed by someone that the new Lincolns use aluminum windings instead of copper, and that it makes them less durable, so I should by a used one instead. Does anyone know if there is any truth to this? There is one for sale that looks pretty rough for 115$ at a local used machinery shop. New they are 300$ at Lowes. Until the comment about the aluminum, I was willing to pay the 300$ and get the new one, figuring it would last longer than the used one, considering it is 30 years old... What do you guys think? Of course there is the third option, buying the AC/DC version...but this is for a farm, repair work, hard to justify the extra 250$ for the DC option you know?
Reply:They are so tough and plentiful I wouldn't buy a new one if I could avoid it.If it needs to look pretty, check out various welder resto threads in these forums. If the only way to get a DC version was buy it new, then I'd do what I did and cough up the extra cash. Mine has lasted since 1988 and MORE than paid for itself many times.Look at Miller, Dayton, and other machines too. Post the MODEL of those you are considering for specific advice on those.
Reply:I can't figure out how to screw up a buzz box unless it was burnt by running it way beyond it's duty cycle.  There's very little inside - transformer, a fan, some switches and wires.  If the seller will let you burn a few rods, you should be able to tell if anything's wrong.  Run it at various amps, see if it smells burnt before/during/after, and make sure the fan runs.Btw, however, my local craigslist is full of yahoos who think their old buzz box is worth the price of a new one.  For an old one, you should pay like $150 max especially the old 180 amp machines.  Nothing wrong with them, but less copper in the transformer.  Made for old rural areas with limited electric supply.The whip and ground cost a lot these days, so check to make sure those are in good shape and not getting warm / hot when you test it out.  Run your hand from terminal to the clamp and stinger. Also check the plug cord.  My old idealarc needed a new plug because the old one was getting hot.  If you find hot spots, that's not good and probably the biggest cost if the machine is otherwise working.  But if you find one with good leads for $100 and the leads are sufficiently long for where you need to work, then I'd buy it.Here's an example: http://austin.craigslist.org/tls/2982427411.html  The thing I would want on this machine is check that input cord.  Looks kinda small gauge.  The guy is using the cord to move the welder to the work.  The leads look to be not very long - maybe 10-15 feet.  However, if that machine runs and the fan runs, it should weld all day long for home and ranch work.Last edited by RodJ; 06-05-2012 at 08:06 PM.
Reply:You can get a used one for 50-75 bucks, why buy new. They are bulletproof and last forever.Disclaimer; "I am just an a$$hole welder, don't take it personally ."
Reply:Here's another overpriced one, but it's ac/dc. http://austin.craigslist.org/tls/3030763334.htmlGood welder, and probably runs fine, but the leads wont' reach outside your garage. Problem with the AC/DC is there are some fairly expensive rectifiers inside that can be blown.  I'd consider buying it if the price were $150 and it othwise worked, but I'm going to have to sink some money extending the leads unless you can bring the work to the welder.
Reply:I am still trying to fry a used buzzbox, but I just keep getting tired and sweaty.  Take a used one for a test run before you buy. If it welds, it is probably just fine.DC is a nice option. Attached ImagesCity of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:I'm pretty sure they haven't had copper windings for a while or never had at all.  There was a post by RickV about this.  Go used.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:As others have mentioned, those machines are hard to kill. If it welds, chances are you will have years and years of trouble free welding and so would your grand kids.If you search around on CL for a while it's possible to find some deals on AC/DC units for what you would pay new for an AC only machine. In many cases, those machines are even heavier duty units, like Idealarcs or Dialarcs.With electronics heavy machines like inverters, it can certainly be worth your money to buy new vs used in some cases. With older transformer machines there's really almost no moving parts other than switches to go bad. Like the Energizer Bunny, they just keep going, and going, and going....No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by tanglediverI am still trying to fry a used buzzbox, but I just keep getting tired and sweaty. .
Reply:Here's only one example, but it's relevant. My father tells me that my grandpa bought his AC buzz box USED in 1957. It's still going strong. They last a while.
Reply:I'd go used.  I bought mine used around 30 years ago and it is still going strong.  I have burned hundreds of rods (maybe thousands?) with it and never had a problem.MikeLast edited by b2major9th; 06-06-2012 at 03:34 PM.
Reply:My Lincoln AC180 is over 40 years old. Bought it new. It's still going strong although the range switch could use replacing but that sucker still welds as good as the day I bought it. Tough as nails.BUY THE DC. When I bought mine the DC was not available. I've given consideration to putting a conversion kit in mine to make it DC but all the effort just isn't worth it. I'd rather upgrade it with something a little more flexible and gas driven.I do mostly farm/ranch welding and it gets used a ton on welding pipe fences.You won't regret having it around.Glenn.Sign on East Texas payphone: Calls to God 40 cents......it's a local call...
Reply:If everyone wants to buy used, how does Lincoln sell new ones?
Reply:Come up with the difference to get the DC version. Its well worth the difference. DC 7018s run way better than AC 7018s. Lot more versatile.Making as much progress as a one legged duck in the middle of a pond, just going in circles.
Reply:Well Thanks everyone for the replies, I stumbled across something even better. Same shop that had the AC225, also had an Ideal Arc 250.....HAD being the operative word here. Now it's mine. It's old, but in decent shape for its age, and the owner said he GUARANTEED it to work, if not he would refund my money. How can I go wrong there? I will post pictures tomorrow hopefully. It came with about a 20' whip for the power cord, and about 40'(best guess) of lead on each tap. It's AC and DC, with switchable polarity, so the leads are bolted to the unit, I just flip a switch to change polarity. I paid 350$ for it...but I feel like I still got a good deal.
Reply:Originally Posted by devongarverWell Thanks everyone for the replies, I stumbled across something even better. Same shop that had the AC225, also had an Ideal Arc 250.....HAD being the operative word here. Now it's mine. It's old, but in decent shape for its age, and the owner said he GUARANTEED it to work, if not he would refund my money. How can I go wrong there? I will post pictures tomorrow hopefully. It came with about a 20' whip for the power cord, and about 40'(best guess) of lead on each tap. It's AC and DC, with switchable polarity, so the leads are bolted to the unit, I just flip a switch to change polarity. I paid 350$ for it...but I feel like I still got a good deal.
Reply:I paid $250 with short leads for that exact welder, no more than 10/15' on work/stinger and a 6' power cord.  Once I sunk $ to extend them I was probably into it $350 total and they're still not as long as the cords you got.  That's more than a fair deal these days.  Anything much lower and you would have to attend confession and say 10 Hail Mary's and 25 Lord's Prayer.  Plus you found it pretty quick and time is money.  Congratulations!  Amigo, you now have the Budweiser Brewing Working Clydesdale of stick welding. Welcome to the Red Side. ps, when you look at the model number, is there a C at the end?  if so, you got power factor correction (capacitors) too - bonus round pps, now keep that thing hidden from the meth addict copper thieves
Reply:Good thing I didn't suggest that, it would never have happened.Congrats! Attached ImagesLast edited by tanglediver; 06-07-2012 at 12:38 AM.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:They clean up nice too! Not a bad deal at all and that machine will weld circles around the buzzbox units.Good luck with your new machine! Papaps - Yes we want to see pictures of the old beastie.Lincoln Idealarc 250 (circa 1962)Lincoln Weldpak 155 w/Mig KitLincoln Squarewave TIG 175
Reply:Yes, that is the type. I am trying to send the pictures from my phone to my computer now, its being temperamental. Hopefully by tonight I will have them. Thanks guys.
Reply:And you can gouge and tig too , buy an LN-25 and mig .  Lots of fab shops only ues them .
Reply:Here are a few pictures....
Reply:Looks pretty good. A little dirt removal, clean up the current adjust wheel, and it will look great sitting in your garage.PapaLincoln Idealarc 250 (circa 1962)Lincoln Weldpak 155 w/Mig KitLincoln Squarewave TIG 175
Reply:Score. Nice price. Pavinsteelman is quite right. You can also use Hobart Heftys and other voltage-sensing feeders. (I got my Heftys from the liquidation of a contractor running them off SA engine drives and off Idealarcs etc in the shop.)If everyone wants to buy used, how does Lincoln sell new ones?
Reply:I would like to get a new ground clamp and electrode holder, I want quality, not cheap. Any suggestions?Originally Posted by devongarverI would like to get a new ground clamp and electrode holder, I want quality, not cheap. Any suggestions?
Reply:Originally Posted by devongarverI would like to get a new ground clamp and electrode holder, I want quality, not cheap. Any suggestions?
Reply:Ok thanks for the suggestions guys. I will look into it. Today I am going to be wiring an outlet from the panel to the garage and rearranging some breakers to add a new one for this welder. Fun Fun Fun!
Reply:Oh boy....So I got the new outlet wired in, and hooked up the welder, and prepped to weld. Scratch to start, and nothing happens. Not even a spark. The dial was set at 100 amps. AC. After 30 mins of trying every setting possible, cranked all the way up, adjusting and cleaning grounding clamp and grounding point, same with stinger, still the most I get is a few sparks, not even enough to start an arc. Needless to say I am upset. So now, my finish mower for my tractor is up in the air and in pieces(i was going to weld a part on it to fix it) and I don't have a welder that works. So the question is, do I try to figure out what is wrong and fix it, or do I return it?
Reply:After verifying my 240V connection to the machine, I would next question the switches.  (There's not a whole lot more on that machine.) With power off, have you cycled the power and polarity switches?  Tried a different polarity setting?  Switch contacts are a weak point due to use and oxidation or contamination.
Reply:Definitely take a look first.  As said, not a lot in there.Does the fan come on and run normal speed?  If not, you don't have 240v.  If 240, unplug and take the cover off, clean up the polarity contacts, cycle the switch back and forth with machine OFF.  Then with switch on on AC, turn it back on.  You want AC so to eliminate the DC rectifier as a potential issue.Check the connections on the whips inside the stinger, clamp, and at the machine.The wiring diagram / manual is easy to pull up on the Lincoln website.  Check and see if you have power factor correction capacitors in the machine.  If the four digit number ends in a "C" it should have a pair of them.  Of course, watch out on capacitors as you probably know they hold a charge.  Check to make sure the wires are all connected up on them and the power cord is good inside.If no luck, then I'd have to call the guy.  Hopefully some other brains will chime in.
Reply:Well I have done all of the above guys. I found that the machine was wired for 480, not 240, so I fixed that. Then the fan would come on with the power switch(didn't before). I have burned about 5 rods with it. I have the current cranked up to 250, and I have tried it on AC, DC positive and DC negative. All with the same results....NO BALLS. It will now strike an arc, though just barely, and then once it is going, it has a hard time keeping an arc. Now, maybe I am remembering wrong here, but I learned to weld on an AC225 in shop class in highschool, and all be damned if I couldn't bury that rod into 1/4" plate and melt a hole right through it if I wanted to. With this, if I even get close to puddle the arc goes out. Here is the interesting part. For about 10 seconds, the planets aligned and the machine almost seem to work correctly, on the AC setting, and I laid a nice bead. But that was it, couldn't get ti work again. Now, the groubd clamp and stinger are a little rough, but I have welded with MUCH worse with no ill effect. The leads are both at only 0.3 Ohms resistance, and I tightened all connections. I also looked at the contacts inside the cabinet and everything was surprisingly clean. I am not sure what the deal is. But I don't have time to screw around either. I am about to go buy a damn new welder and be done with it...
Reply:If you want to save on a ground clamp, just put a new lug on the end of the cable and clamp that to the work with any handy clamp. Plenty of contact area and dirt cheap.http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us...r-manuals.aspxOhming welding leads often doesn't work because  "one good strand" will give a good reading.One other trick is to cycle the rotary switch on machines which have been sitting MANY times to clean the contacts.Perhaps another weldingweb member is near you. Also, anyone know what the scrap worth on an Idealarc transformer is? If it's dead there would be customers for the good parts including sheet metal in the For Sale forum.Last edited by farmall; 06-09-2012 at 05:07 PM.
Reply:Take a peek inside and look for any possible loose connection.  Longshot, but ...
Reply:Bring it back.  Ask for your money back, then tell him you'll give him a hundred for it as a gamble.  That's a price that gives you latitude with arice for parts you may need.TA Arcmaster 300CM3XMT 304S22P12 suitcase feederX-Treme 12VSOptima pulserTA161SMaxstar 150STLHypertherm PM45OP setupStihl 020AVP, 039, 066 Magnum
Reply:Ok, you got past the 480/240 part. Good. You ohmed the leads, which means you have a meter. Next step... attach the meter across the welder output terminals set to DC volts for DC polarity or AC volts, in the AC polarity position. We need to know what you have for OCV...open circuit voltage. If it reads within spec, then something high resistance in the load is pulling the voltage way down under load. That could be in the leads or the stinger/ground clamp area.This is a great machine with simple innards. Don't give up on it just yet.Also, please put your location in your profile so we know where to steer you for additional help resources in your area. Maybe even another WW member.PapaLast edited by papaharley03; 06-09-2012 at 08:32 PM.Lincoln Idealarc 250 (circa 1962)Lincoln Weldpak 155 w/Mig KitLincoln Squarewave TIG 175
Reply:If it worked for a very short time, that argues that some connection or switch is intermittent.I'd consider disconnecting the stinger and looking inside where the cable enters it. Also I'd look into the cable lugs for fraying and corrosion, and WIGGLE the cables etc while trying to strike an arc.
Reply:A spray can of elecrical contact cleaner might not be a bad investment either. Stay away from the capacitors, if any!!! Unplug the welder, douche it down, run the switches through their cycles, let dry, which shouldn't take more than a minute, and have at it again to see if it helps.Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:First test the line voltage. You just wired that in, yes? Did you check your work?City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny
Reply:Wow....well it works now. Funny, all of the things you guys have mentioned to check or do, I did check or do already. I cleaned the contacts, checked connections, etc. Here's what happened. When I wired in the plug I used Black as X(Line 1), Red as Y(Line 2), White as Neutral, and Green as Ground. This is the wires in the S/O cord that was already wired to the machine when I got it. It just had the end cut off and bare wires so I added a plug. Unfortunately, I neglected to check to be sure that the wires in the machine were setup the same way. I just assumed everyone knows to used black and red as line, and white and green as neutral and ground. There was so much dirt on the wires than didn't come off when I blew out the cabinet with compressed air that you couldn't even see the wire color anyway. So when I first look at things, I saw what my brain wanted to see. So basically, all said and done, the damned thing was just wired wrong...BUT now I know how the machine will behave if I lose a leg of power lol! Thank you guys for all of your help! Oh and by the way, this thing welds GREAT now. I have only used it on AC now with it working, and I had no trouble striking an arc or running a decent bead. I haven't welded since I was 16 in shop class(I'm 26 now) so for it to weld as nice as it is in my inexperienced hands is fantastic. I can't wait until I actually know what I am doing haha! I bought about 6 books from the Lincoln foundations and have started reading them, so that will help.
Reply:Glad to hear your problems all worked out. Even happier to know that you decided to spend your money on a used instead of new welder, especially one as proficient as an Idealarc. Should be a good welder to leave to the grandkids someday.BTW, switch over to the DC side and shorten your learning curve...it will be much easier to strike and keep an arc.Last edited by WyoRoy; 06-10-2012 at 10:38 AM.Lincoln PrecisionTig 275Miller 251Miller DialArc 250Bridgeport millHossfeld bender & diesLogan shaperJet 14 X 40 latheSouth Bend 9" 'C'Hypertherm 900Ellis 3000 band saw21"Royersford ExcelsiorTwo shops, still too many tools.
Reply:I was certain ou're only getting 120v and to double check the wiring at the panel to the outlet.  I don't think I would ever have thought the power cord side was mis-wired, but some people are capable of screwing up a rock.   Way to hang in there and glad you rescued a good old gal.  You can get your manual here by typing in your code number 6933 and read the troubleshooting chart to confirm your diagnosis   http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us...r-manuals.aspxNow go set her at 250, strike and arc, and see if you can't punch right through 1/4" plate in about a half a second.  You're now part of the red blob club  Last edited by RodJ; 06-10-2012 at 10:54 AM.
Reply:By the way, new ones are about two thousand dollars and aren't an improvement, so you saved a penny or two.
Reply:Originally Posted by devongarverWow....well it works now. ...Oh and by the way, this thing welds GREAT now. I have only used it on AC now with it working, and I had no trouble striking an arc or running a decent bead.  I can't wait until I actually know what I am doing haha! I bought about 6 books from the Lincoln foundations and have started reading them, so that will help.
Reply:After looking over the inside, I am seeing it is actually a pretty simple setup. Most components will be rebuildable or replaceable with something new if they fail I think. I am happy things worked out with it, and very glad I saved a few thousand. I was looking at the brand new version and the only thing different is the case. For 2700$....I could by 9 of these used lol!
Reply:For 2700$....I could by 9 of these used lol!
Reply:Originally Posted by devongarverAfter looking over the inside, I am seeing it is actually a pretty simple setup. Most components will be rebuildable or replaceable with something new if they fail I think. I am happy things worked out with it, and very glad I saved a few thousand. I was looking at the brand new version and the only thing different is the case. For 2700$....I could by 9 of these used lol!
Reply:Get a big compressor and an AirArc torch, and standby for a serious firedrill!  http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&fe...&v=4PRF39gcUocLast edited by tanglediver; 06-12-2012 at 02:05 AM.City of L.A. Structural; Manual & Semi-Automatic;"Surely there is a mine for silver, and a place where gold is refined. Iron is taken from the earth, and copper is smelted from ore."Job 28:1,2Lincoln, Miller, Victor & ISV BibleDanny