Welding a fire hydrant.????

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So I was asked to weld some fire hydrants. A grounds manager for a condo ski resort area asked me if I could weld a tab on the main caps for all the fire hydrants on the resort. I guess the state wants them to only use the two smaller caps and says the mains must be welded so they cant be opened. So my question is has anyone done any welding on a fire hydrant before. I have not had the chance to spark test them yet but what research I have done makes me think they are probably going to be cast iron. I have never tried to weld a mild steel tab to cast before any ideas will the ni rod stick to the steel tab or just better to run 7018. It doesnt have to have alot of strenth. Any input is much appreciated.Last edited by KD Welding; 09-11-2012 at 11:37 PM.
Reply:Fire hydrants are grey cast iron.  You likely could use ni-rod however you should consider the fact that You are welding on a pressure vessel.  I think that the person from the State did not think this out very well.  I am sure you can give the hydrant a small bit of preheat , weld and peen but you risk burning the o-ring seals if you overheat it.  The other complication is cracking that may happen just after you weld or months after.  The only time it will be pressurized is when in use however that is the time when a fire fighting crew will not be happy that they have a cracked hydrant that is spraying water everywhere except into the fire hose attached.  If these hydrants are being used for snow making I would suggest that the large caps be tightened on then the flats of the cap be ground smooth/round so that a standard hydrant wrench cannot be used to remove them.
Reply:Can you drill the cap and pin it? Or maybe cross drill it and run a bolt through it?You could always put a locking cap on it.http://www.american-usa.com/products...ing-nozzle-capHere's a video:http://www.american-usa.com/resource...captivater-400Demonstration video:[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKnUpNGFnJo[/ame]
Reply:Adhesives would also come to mind for this. Red locktite or epoxy would probably work, and if you welded up or ground off the wrench fitting on the cap as suggested above that should take care of the issue..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Just make sure you have something around to put out a fire while welding.
Reply:I suspect that the person suggesting this is young and mis informed. I used to see this kind of stuff ALOT. Different and varying interpretations of some code or other. Do yourself and your customer a favor and find a non permanent way of satisfying the requirement beacause it will freqently change at some point down the road and you could concievably find your self in a lawsuit for tampering with a fire safty device. "SO tell this inquest ( and the deceath families) again (remember you are under oath) why you apparently took it upon yourself to tamper with a fire saftey device as important as a fire hydrant mr BLA BLA." I used to be in the fire saftey industy for 25 years and the "inquest" thing was in my mind every day, and I would have been very worried if it hadn't. Don't take this lightly fire saftey equipment is Very Important. Ps there are lots of locking options that can be used.Miller thunderbolt 250Decastar 135ERecovering tool-o-holic ESAB OAI have been interested or involved in Electrical, Fire Alarm, Auto, Marine, Welding, Electronics ETC to name a just a few. So YES you can own too many tools.
Reply:I would STONGLY suggest talking to the local fire department or fire marshall abopu this before you do anything.....
Reply:Is it a fire hydrant or a YARD hydrant for garden hose use?
Reply:Thanks for the input everyone. I was hit with the request yesterday and really had not had much time to think about it. Lots of good suggestions though. I have decided that I will meet with the town fire chief and I will not do the job unless I can build a nonpermanent lock out tag out type device that will clamp around the hydrant. I'll post pics of what I come up with. Im thinking something simple that blocks off the cap nut then clamp around the hydrant with a bolt or lock. Thanks again for all the input.
Reply:Quote "A grounds manager for a condo ski resort area asked me "No where does he state he saw the paper from the state of Vermont stating to "weld" the caps.There are no qualifications for the job of "grounds manager" except to be the owners wife's sister son who can't keep a job anywhere else.
Reply:I agree with DSW. Also you can try JB Weld."Where's Stick man????????" - 7A749"SHHHHHH!! I sent him over to snag that MIC-4 while tbone wasn't looking!" - duaneb55"I have bought a few of Tbone's things unlike Stick-Man who helps himself" - TozziWelding"Stick-man"
Reply:Ouch thats pretty harsh. The manager is actually a good friend of mine with many talents in many different areas. Just not welding. He doesn't deal with the state directly it has to be delt with through his boss and no parties are related to any of the investors. They had a broken hydrant that I did a demo on for his boss tonight to show them why cast is not ideal to weld on. Than added in a pressurized state it would be even more likely to crack. I started this thread to see if anyone knew A) What they were made of and B) If anyone had ever been asked to do something similar. I saw the paper work it was by state request however when I read it welding was only mentioned as a possible option. The person who wrote the letter obviously didn't understand the danger of welding them.
Reply:Originally Posted by Stick-manI agree with DSW. Also you can try JB Weld.
Reply:Just for general info why is it that they don't want this one port used?"The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life." -Theodore Roosevelt
Reply:We have this on are hydrants in town.https://www.weldingweb.com/images/attach/jpg.gif   https://www.weldingweb.com/images/attach/jpg.gif Attached Images
Reply:Originally Posted by SandyJust for general info why is it that they don't want this one port used?
Reply:I would think along the lines of the above pic and have a tab up and doun attached to a strap around and padlocked to the other side. that way you are involed and makeing money but no permanent alterations and the fd can cut the lock in an emergency fire situation. Talk to they with your idea and if approved build it then have them say in writing that its ok to install it. **** BUT get a waiver from the authorities saying that they approve it.****CYA (cover your azz). If handeled correctly you may become their go to guy, meaning if your professional and curtious about it you could get more business referals.Last edited by dumb as a stump; 09-15-2012 at 12:23 AM.Miller thunderbolt 250Decastar 135ERecovering tool-o-holic ESAB OAI have been interested or involved in Electrical, Fire Alarm, Auto, Marine, Welding, Electronics ETC to name a just a few. So YES you can own too many tools.
Reply:Originally Posted by dumb as a stumpI would think along the lines of the above pic and have a tab up and doun attached to a strap around and padlocked to the other side. that way you are involed and makeing money but no permanent alterations and the fd can cut the lock in an emergency fire situation. Talk to they with your idea and if approved build it then have them say in writing that its ok to install it. **** BUT get a waiver from the authorities saying that they approve it.****CYA (cover your azz). If handeled correctly you may become their go to guy, meaning if your professional and curtious about it you could get more business referals.
Reply:Originally Posted by sbchp355To the best of my knowledge the state water engineer thinks there is a chance that if the 4 in. mains are used that the water line could collapse due to the age of the line. So they only want the smaller lines to be used.TAB thanks for the pics. I have something along that line in mind. They gave me the broken hydrant to use as a model, should be fun.
Reply:I would assume a negative pressure there would suck the hose between the hydrant and the pump flat, and cut of the water completely.
Reply:They use special vacuum hose that's specifically reinforced for suction. It's a thick, pain in the *** to deal with hose.Miller: 200dx, Bobcat 225, Passport, Powermax 45, Milwaukee: Dry Saw, MagDrill, grinders