Plasma cutter question?

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I am looking at getting a hypertherm 380.  Online it goes for $986.00 with free shipping.  I went to the welding shop today and asked what the best price they could offer was.  First he came at me with 1148.00.  I told him i know you can do better then that....after a lot of haggling i got him down 1085.00 but these prices are plus tax.  Online has no tax for me.  I asked him what his cost for the machine is and he told me 965.00.  Dont really know who to buy from, I like to give these shops business so they will stay in business but on the other hand money is money.  The more i save the more consumables and other stuff i can get with it.  I would think he could get lower then that to keep me happy.   I will continue to buy the parts that wear out from them, i dont know.  But i guess he needs to make money to make it worth his while.  Anyone else deal with this, any suggestions?
Reply:A lot of these internet guys ship directly from the factory.  You place the order and they send it in to the manufacturer to ship direct to you.  So they don't even need a brick and mortar store.  That is how they offer the ridiculously low prices.I know what you mean, that money is money.  But I also know that the guys at the local store have helped me out with things more than I'd care to admit.  I picked up a used Hypertherm 1100 for about what you are looking at the 380 for.  I was having some issues with it, so I stopped by to see if they had any advice.  Just happened that a rep from Hypertherm was going to be in the next week.  They had me bring my equipment in and the rep went over everything, adjusted a few things, and even replaced a couple parts.  So it was almost like getting a factory semi-reconditioned machine.  Then spent about an hour with me going over settings and helping me with my technique.  Of course, they ended up selling me a bunch of consumables and stuff, but when I look at the difference between their prices and the online prices it would not have come close to the hourly rate for the "instruction" that I got.  They definitely got a regular customer out of the deal.  I realize I won't spend a whole lot of money there, but I'll point anyone I know to them if they ask where to buy welding equipment.Now a lot depends on the store.  I had dealt with one store in the past that really could not be bothered with the little guy.  They'd take my money if I came in and bought something off the shelf.  But never wanted to spend any time helping me if I couldn't find something or needed advice.  So I drifted to some of the online dealers.But the local AirGas store has been most helpful.  If I were looking at your purchase, I'd spend the extra $100 and buy local and consider that money as keeping someone in business that I'd know would be there when I had a question.
Reply:I've always struggled with that decision: online or local.  Recently, I've made more of my purchases via the local shop.  1.  If there are problems, I can return it without having to ship it.  2.  If I have questions, I know who to call.  3.  They give you more attention when you come back in for replacement parts.  4.  It keeps the money in the local economy.  5.  I get it that day and I don't have to wait!
Reply:CUSTOMER SERVICE IS EVERYTHING !! I would deal with the people who will be there next year for your needs.RG
Reply:Thanks guys, thats kind of the way i feel about it too but i like to buy tools, so the more i save the more i can get  .  How did you get your cutter so cheap patoyota?  I have been talking to a lot of people about plasma cutters and i am getting the same as i get with welders.  Save up and get the most machine i can, the 380 is a little on the light side i think.  90 percent of the time it will do everything i want but then theres the other 10 percent.
Reply:Just one thing to note...all states have a use tax that is coupled with the sales tax.  Any new item purchase from an online (or out-of-state) retailer is technically subject to your state's use tax, if you are NOT charged sales tax.  It's just the use tax requires you to actively go and pay the tax (like everyone does that, right?).  So, the sale is not tax free, just tax-unpaid.  I am not passing judgement here (and I am admitting to nothing, just in case the IRS is tapping my phone )...just FYI.On the subject of local firms...I am constantly finding myself in this situation for more than just welding purchases.  If you are looking for followup customer service, or you depend on these folks for lots of stuff, it is in your best interest to support these businesses.  However, the reason the internet has become the "new world marketplace" (at least to a large degree) is that it reduces the cost of information, so, much of online customer service is self-administered and is just a matter of the individual's willingness to do research.If your idea of customer service is being able to stand across a counter and converse with a person, you will have to pay for this...they have saleries, overhead and a customer service counter they have to cover in the price of the stuff they sell.If, on the other hand, you are not that interested in the "personal touch" service some local places provide, then you get to choose that also, and in the process maybe get a lower price...mainly because they dont do the extra stuff.  I also see/read folks complain a lot when they dont get customer service from one of these places...but you get what you pay for, right.  When I go to wal-mart, I dont expect detailed knowledge on every product...not even on ANY product.  The way I see it there really is no right or wrong choice here.  It's personal preference.If the hands-on approach (demos, testing, touching the stuff) is demanded by local weldors, these businesses will survive and even thrive.  If not, mail order will become dominant.  There is also room in between.  The market decides, and you and everyone else are part of the process.These are choices that we all make...they will have market consequences.Last edited by smithboy; 12-28-2005 at 08:12 PM.Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:BlownNova:  I picked up my 1100 along with the MM250X from a shop that was going out of business.  I literally looked for a couple years and was just about to the point of laying down the cash on a new MM210 when I saw the ad in the paper for the MM250X.  I went to check it out and the 1100 was off in the corner.  I asked if it was for sale too and another guy had said he wanted it but he never heard from him again.  So I asked what he wanted if I paid cash for the two of them and got a pretty good deal.  It was just the luck of being in the right place at the right time.Smithboy: I agree totally with what you are saying.  There are things I'll buy online just because I cannot get the service locally.  I'm a Mac user computer-wise.  Locally there is nobody that deals with Macs.  So I'll deal with a few select places online that do cater to Macs to support them just like I'd support someone local.  I'll also support the local shops over places like Wal-Mart and the other box stores where the employees are just there and about the only answer you can get out of them on anything is "I don't know."
Reply:When I purchased my TIG  (Lincoln 185) I went into my local shop and haggled over price comparing it to ebay prices.  He got to a $53 difference and I decided I would pay $53 extra for buying it local and I did.  He made it so worth it when he gave me all extras at cost, like a new auto darkening helmet, variety of filler rod, gas bottle and gas, consumables, etc.  I did the math and ended saving $300 because of the deals he made.  Tried the same thing when I got my plasma (Hypertherm 380) and he was over a $130 off and this time there was no extras to buy, I got it from a ebay seller and no hard feelings with the local welder he appreciated the chance, so try it, ask about the pricing but remember its not always just purchase price, sometimes they can give you breaks in other ways later because you are a good customer.
Reply:I spoke to a dude at Airgas the other day who said that they had "meet and beat pricing".  For any item that you find online for a given price, they will meet it and then beat it for 10% of the difference.  I'm going to get a Hypertherm 1000 at some point soon, so I'll be able to verify this.This was the same guy that also gave me a larger argon cylinder for just the price of the fill, so it was a pleasant experience at the Airgas near my friend's house.  At the one closest to my place, the staff are grumpy and unhelpful and consistently quote me bogus pricing ($80 to fill/replace a 20CF argon cylinder) or charge me more for an item than it was marked.I couldn't care less whether brick and mortar stores dry up and go away.  The benefit to retail store is that they keep stuff in inventory that's immediately available.  Unfortunately, they never seem to keep anything I need in inventory, particularly the rare and unique items like TIG consumables.  It's not like anyone really ever needs a collet or a new nozzle for their torch.-Heath
Reply:I know this is late response but I just got a good deal on the Hypertherm 600by getting a cheap price at one online store and then ordering from another that met that price, was a big store and nearer. Since then I've bght lots more stuff form the. Hey,.. they wldnt do it if it wasnt profitable. thats the bottom line. Happy New Year.
Reply:Wow!  "I couldn't care less whether brick and mortar stores dry up and go away."  That's a chilling thought, Halbritt.  As a self-taught welder, I've learned a LOT by just browsing the nearby welding supply stores, thumbing through the literature racks, and talking with the counter people and other customers.  I would hate to see my local brick and mortar stores dry up and blow away.  In fact, I got a shock just a few days ago when I went to the nearest welding store site and found a sign on the door of the now vacant space saying that it had been bought out by a larger dealer much further away.I did a lot of online and pavement shopping  for a 40 amp plasma cutter a couple of years ago and got a lot of info on comparative features from local shops including the one that just closed.  While I did end up buying on ebay, my justification was that it was a unit that had been dropped and cosmetically damaged and I was taking a chance on internal damage (which did not happen, it turned out).  I do buy parts, accessories, and consumables locally by intent.  My perspective is that we must pay some premium to keep local shops in business.  They are providing valuable services by stocking stuff we find we need late friday afternoon, educating us (well, me anyway), and providing cylinder handling services.  You are going to find it a real pain in the *** to exchange your cylinders online.The analogy I use is my local, independent bookstores.  They are under tremendous economic pressure from Barnes and Noble and that other one.  Online shopping is simply no substitute for a nice evening browse at my local independent bookstores.  Both in the bookstore and the welding store, I am supporting my community culturally, through taxes, by keeping neighbors employed, and by keeping my money circulating in the local economy.  (As an aside, check out the new WalMart movie for some sobering facts about big-box retailers and their affects on employees, local merchants, and local economies.)awright
Reply:Awright,No big box or online store will ever be able to completely replace all mom and pop operations.  The vast array of wants cant be contained in a single building, no matter how large the floor space....but, to compete, any business is going to have to find their niche and be creative to keep it.  As I have said earlier, capitalism is Darwinism on steroids for buisness.  We make a big deal about it being the BEST way to organize an economy (because it is self-organizing and efficient) but there are constant casualties...many times it's the little and weak...sometimes, it's the big and formerly strong (Delta, Ford, GM).Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:Ive bought most of my major welding purchases online due to the fact that it left money in my wallet for other things.I also hate the thought of the day comming when I am no longer able to walk into my local welding shop , have a cup of REAL coffee, shoot the breeze with some pretty knowledgable guys, peruse the "new and improved" whatzitz and buy 5lbs of 6013 rod just because I have the urge.Change is usually for the good but, it's seldom pleasant. Sometimes is for the bad .........and terminal."I need this parade like I need a hole in the head"~John F.Kennedy
Reply:I'm a self-taught welder as well and still dread having to visit any of the local shops.  I have a theory about why they suck so much.  It seems that the truly local mom and pop stores are being pushed out of business by folks like Praxair and Airgas.  The primary business for both of these companies is gas sales, which will always guarantee a need for a local presence in a given market.  Unfortunately, they also have an economy of scale that allows them to undercut the smaller, independent businesses.Internet sales of welding supplies will likely add more pressure to the independent businesses and I suspect will eventually eliminate them entirely.-Heath
Reply:Being an old retired associate director of purchasing of a major university, I have an affinity for pricing things.  I bought my Lincoln 215 amp MIG welder online for several reasons.  1.  The local shops couldn't, or didn't, give me any information that was helpful in selecting what I needed.  I got all I needed by talking to a local tech school welding instructor, my daughter-in-law's father and grandfather, who taught welding, and off the internet.2.  I did my research on the prices I could get locally and on the internet. The local shops were given the opportunity to price the same unit, and were higher in price by a pretty good chunk.  I always ask at any store when I find something of consequence I want to buy, "What do you want for it?"  That is a throwaway question, as I know they will come back with their marked price, so the next one is, "OK, now, what will you take for it?"  If they are still high I go so far as to give them my best price and ask if they can beat it.  If they can even match it I'll buy locally, but if they won't budge or don't come close I go to the net.  3.  As someone mentioned earlier, I got the unit online with shipping included and no sales tax, which locally would have added 7% to the cost.  The same web site also sell consumables, although it takes a few days to get them.  I went ahead and bought a 10 pound spool of flux core wire because I could get it at lower cost, shipping included, and no sales tax.  I must say, however, Lowe's and Home Depot also sell the wire and one of them has the wire at even less cost than the internet site I used, so I'll buy it there from now on. As for consumables, by their very nature, you know you will need them, so if you cannot live without having fast access to something, buy one to use and a spare to keep on the shelf.  When you have to use the one on the shelf order another one to put on the shelf.  Those things you can do without for several days, order as needed, if you wish.  At the price of gas and diesel now it beats jumping in your truck and running to the local shop, which in my case is just over 20 miles from me.  I like to buy locally, but I refuse to buy anywhere I can't get a break on price.  I bought a new Dodge 1 ton diesel 4x4 truck online and saved $5,000.00 on it over local and other dealers.  Worth it?  You bet.  I hadn't bought a new truck since about 1971 so you can imagine the sticker shock.  It took me 2 years to decide I was going to spend even that much for a new truck.  And had I not gotten that price I probably wouldn't have bought a truck and I needed one badly to haul cow trailers and loads on the farm with.
Reply:Bmaige,Your post reminds me of my dad.  He never bought a new truck, but his newest one is a 1981 chevy c30 dualy.  He still owns and drives his 1974 model also...He is also a cattleman.  Thriftiness in that industry is a religion.  I'll have to show him your post.Thanks,Smithboy...if it ain't broke, you ain't tryin'.
Reply:b,thats the way i do it to. Try to buy form the local guys but many times they dont have it or wont come down, like on the plsma cutter i bhght. I saved abt $200 on that.As for the trucks, ill never buy a new one. my 88 GMC 3500 454ci works like a champ. Yeah it burns gas but i just use it to haul and its paid for the day i got it used with 45k miles.Good post.BR
Reply:Here's a good example of why I like to buy local when I can.My MM175 stopped feeding wire this weekend, so I brought it into the local store.  Normally, I would have had to drop it off and wait for Miller to send them the parts.  The manager saw that I had to make a special trip, so he cracked open the case while I was waiting.  Turns out they had the circuit board in stock and within 15 minutes, I was back on the road.  He also told me that even though they are a qualified repair center, they primarily work on boxes under warranty that were purchased at their store.  He saved me another trip.
Reply:I had shopped trucks used for some time, and found the used ones comparably equipped were priced at very nearly what a new one cost.  In fact, I got my new one at less cost than some of the used ones that I saw.You have to be thrifty to make any money on cows.  They are bringing a good price now, but the inputs are bringing an even better price.  Fertilizer, fuel, equipment, equipment parts, tractor tires,  even fencing is high.  And if you can't do your own repairs you are really in a world of hurt.  Farming is one business it pays to watch your pennies.