1.5 x .065 wall rectangular tubing for carport frame?????

admin

Does anyone believe this would actually work?????[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbBo0I2-cX4&list=HL1351325512&feature=mh_lolz[/ame]
Reply:I've seen the metal frame fabric tent canopy's take high winds and heavy snow loads as well. The poles on my canopy are maybe .065 at best, though mine has large dia poles. The only issues being if these sorts of things aren't anchored very well, the wind usually picks them up and trashes them instantly, and if one support gets at all bent, the whole thing collapses with zero warning. I've seen it every time we have a deep snow when the cheap steel garden sheds collapse. All it will take is one member to start to bend and the whole thing will go down like a house of cards.The angle looks a lot steeper than 30 deg as well. Looks closer to a 45 deg angle from his drawing and the picts. using my 30/60/90 transparent drafting triangle I have on my desk right now. That would take a huge amount of the load and transfer it from a bending force into a compression force..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Originally Posted by DSWI've seen the metal frame fabric tent canopy's take high winds and heavy snow loads as well. The poles on my canopy are maybe .065 at best, though mine has large dia poles. The only issues being if these sorts of things aren't anchored very well, the wind usually picks them up and trashes them instantly, and if one support gets at all bent, the whole thing collapses with zero warning. I've seen it every time we have a deep snow when the cheap steel garden sheds collapse. All it will take is one member to start to bend and the whole thing will go down like a house of cards.The angle looks a lot steeper than 30 deg as well. Looks closer to a 45 deg angle from his drawing and the picts. using my 30/60/90 transparent drafting triangle I have on my desk right now. That would take a huge amount of the load and transfer it from a bending force into a compression force.
Reply:Light weight material to span long distances safely? Think truss as one possible option. Trusses aren't really something to design DIY, but you can buy premade I bar roof trusses with predetermined load ratings. Option 2 would be to go with tall rectangular box sections rather than "pipe". the taller the section, the more resistant to bending it is. In reality it's the same principal behind the truss as well. Get as much material as far away from the neutral axis of the "beam" as possible to gain the greatest resistance to bending for a similar weight. 4" tall tube even 1" wide is way stronger than 2" tube in bending. Take an 8'  2x4 and try to bend it the tall way, and then try to bend it in the flat orientation. Tall is much stronger, yet you didn't add any material to gain that strength. Take that same 2x4, rip it in half so you have 2 2x2's and separate the two with a thin sheet of plywood like an I, and you can use it to build floors spanning over 20' as long as the distance between the 2x's is tall enough. The basic idea behind both the taller tube and the truss.2nd idea would be to take a page out of history, and build a Quonset hut.  The idea there is that the ribs form an arch, one of the strongest shapes available. You just need to make sure to compensate for the lateral loads. When you try and squash a round arch, the sides want to push out. You need to either use ties to lock the two sides together so the tie goes into tension, or buttress the base with enough mass so that the sides can't move. If you go to a pointed arch instead, more of the force is directed downwards, and less buttressing is needed. The reason why Gothic arched churches could have larger windows and less massive walls than the previous round arched Romanesque churches.Last edited by DSW; 10-27-2012 at 11:33 PM..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Ok so with that being said what about if I built it with 2.5 x .120 wall tubing for the legs, and base, and the 2.5" sleeved over 1.25"x 1ft long studs at the base of the legs. Then made my roof supports out of 20ft long 3"  Jr Hot rolled I beams. Or 4" Jr I beams Horizontally.  Would that be sufficient structural integrity? Also would you still recommend running 5 legs or would 4 or 3 be enough?
Reply:I would love to see your progress. Beeen thing of doing the same thing in my backyard.http://www.muellerinc.com/gallery/bu...rt01_a.jpg.phpI went over and looked at one of the ones in the url above but by the time i got the size right way too expensive.
Reply:I was looking at materials again for this build. Would 2.5" x 2.5" x  .120 wall square tubing, or 2.5" x 1.5" x .120 wall rectangular tubing be better for this build?
Reply:Originally Posted by EzalycasaidI was looking at materials again for this build. Would 2.5" x 2.5" x  .120 wall square tubing, or 2.5" x 1.5" x .120 wall rectangular tubing be better for this build?
Reply:Originally Posted by noriteUsing rectangular  tubing with the narrow dimension as top and bottom allows enough strength to support roof loads with less weight compared to square sections.
Reply:Strength in bending on columns is based on a ratio of length to width/wall thickness. You could support a massive amount of weight on a small 6" long chunk of that light wall tube before it collapsed. Unfortunately something that short sort of limits you in what you can put under the canopy... Take the same tube, but make it 20' tall, and chances are it may not support even your weight if applied to the end before the tube buckles and collapses.To stiffen the column you can do one of three things ( or a combination there of). One make the column shorter to reduce the bending ratio. Two increase the width of the member, say going to 3" from 2". Or finally make the tube walls thicker. In general the 1st two will give you the best results. Simply adding wall thickness won't make huge changes past a certain point. You can easily bend a solid chunk of 2" if the length is long enough. Take a fraction of that steel, but make the column 6" wide, and even if it is .065 thick it will not bend. As far as reducing column height, that's more a function of your design. If your roof design will allow you to lower your columns, then that would help, but I doubt it's terribly practical in your instance..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Assuming you mean a base as in a foundation to stand your pipes on.14 gage, is pretty light for something that will lay on the ground and would rust out pretty quick.  I would get some 3" flat strip, 1/4" thick for a base, screwed to a wood PT 4x4 or 6x6 to get it up off the ground and away from moisture.If you have access to some scrap railroad track, invert it and weld your pipes to the bottom flange, it is heavy enough it won't rust out in your lifetime and is heavy enough it should help hold your structure down in a typical wind."The reason we are here is that we are not all there"SA 200Idealarc TM 300 300MM 200MM 25130a SpoolgunPrecision Tig 375Invertec V350 ProSC-32 CS 12 Wire FeederOxweld/Purox O/AArcAirHypertherm Powermax 85LN25
Reply:Originally Posted by KernWilliaThat would take a huge amount of the load and transfer it from a bending force into a compression force.
Reply:Im trying to figure out how wide my legs need to be appart. Im cutting two 11 foot long straights with 30 degree cuts at the top end and welding them together. What is the width at the bottom of the two 11 foot lengths? Heres a photo for reference. Attached ImagesLast edited by Ezalycasaid; 11-16-2012 at 01:43 AM.
Reply:Originally Posted by stanfidavidI went over and looked at one of the ones in the url above but by the time i got the size right way too expensive.
Reply:Originally Posted by EzalycasaidWhat is the width at the bottom of the two 11 foot lengths?
Reply:Originally Posted by KelvinGot trig?http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-trigright.asp
Reply:Originally Posted by EzalycasaidThank you, but that one doesnt work out for my situation. My C angle is 120 and my other 2 are 30. Im also an idiot so I dont know how to change or modify my information to back check the info.
Reply:Originally Posted by EzalycasaidThank you, but that one doesnt work out for my situation. My C angle is 120 and my other 2 are 30. Im also an idiot so I dont know how to change or modify my information to back check the info.
Reply:Originally Posted by EzalycasaidIm trying to figure out how wide my legs need to be appart. Im cutting two 11 foot long straights with 30 degree cuts at the top end and welding them together. What is the width at the bottom of the two 11 foot lengths? Heres a photo for reference.
Reply:Ok so I got some actual numbers. Its going to be 19ft wide by 20ft long, by 7-1/2ft tall at the sides and 12ft tall at the peek. Made some tube gussets at the top or trusses if u will, 3ft long and sides 2ft long. It took me 13hrs but I hand notched 80 notches, made 80 cuts, and so far welded a 1/4 of them. Using a chop saw, grinder and cutoff wheel. They could probably just have supported themselves without the tube gussets but I like overkill. I still have to buy and burry some railroad ties and leave them sticking out 2"s.Then buy some 3/8" x 3" wide steel plate as the base to put on top of the railroad ties.Screw them down to the railroad ties. From there I still have to cut 4ft tube lengths and use them to tie the frame pieces together laterally. Then Ill put some 2x4x20ft long wooden studs to anchor the metal roofing to running laterally on top of the frame. Anyway heres some pics of the progress.  First pic is of the top eve gussets, second is of the sides, and third is of the overall size. Attached Images
Reply:This is actually still going on. Waiting for an inspection on the frame right now. But I got the concrete poured 20 x 24 x 6" thick. Got the posts up and welded together. Got the 2x4x20, and 2x6x20 wood boards up. Also got the plywood up. Waiting on inspection to get the  metal siding on. All the boards are held to the tubing by 2-3/4" self taping screws... ALOT of them 370 to be exact. Anyway heres pics. Attached Images
Reply:You ain't gonna put sheet metal roofing on top of that OSB, are you?
Reply:Originally Posted by walkerweldYou ain't gonna put sheet metal roofing on top of that OSB, are you?
Reply:Thanks for keeping us updated.
Reply:Originally Posted by EzalycasaidI feel like your going to say this is a bad idea. Why shouldn't I do that?I assume this will be a welding shop/workshop.(?) I would have wanted a non-flammable structure. Blandex/OSB burns hot and fast with all that glue in it.I would have used steel "Hat" channel or tubing for purlins and girts, and attached the sheet metal to that. No wood= no Termite/decay issues and considerably less chance of a fire.There's a demo steel tube shop building in my area that is built of slip fit 2", 2.25" and 2.5 14ga galvanized square steel tubing. 5' O/C as I recall, and hat channel for purlins and girts. None of the hazards of wood, looks good, low price, and seems fairly strong for what it is.Having said all that...it's your building, build it your way and enjoy it.
Reply:What about if I put a plastic barrier between the metal and osb?
Reply:Just out of curiosity, why didn't you just build it using regular metal building techniques using purlines. Wouldn't you think they would have the labor and material figured out the best and still make a strong building? There would be a lot less fitting, welding and material with conventional methods and you would have saved time and money.
Reply:Originally Posted by BobJust out of curiosity, why didn't you just build it using regular metal building techniques using purlines. Wouldn't you think they would have the labor and material figured out the best and still make a strong building? There would be a lot less fitting, welding and material with conventional methods and you would have saved time and money.
Reply:Originally Posted by EzalycasaidWhat about if I put a plastic barrier between the metal and osb?
Reply:Go on Craigslist and try to pick up some left over asphalt shingles until you get enough for your roof, it might be different colors but it would be unique. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
Reply:Almost done. Attached Images
Reply:Still have some more storage to make, and some more supports to reinforce. But for the most part done. 20L x 24W x 13 Tall Attached Images