beginning welder asking machine advice

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Hello,I'm looking to buy my first welder and I would like to ask some advice. I have done some stick welding in high school and I'm taking a welding course at the local college that includes oxy, stick, tig, and mig. I'm really enjoying stick and tig so I'd like machine that does both. We use Miller syncrowave 200's and 250's for tig at school and Lincoln idealarc's for stick, but I haven't tried the syncrowave with a stick. I want to buy a good welder once, so I have been looking into buying a used Miller syncrowave or Lincoln square wave. I'm willing to spend $1,000-2,000 on the machine it self. This would be almost strictly for learning and home hobby stuff. My questions are, will these machines perform well on stick, am I over looking some other good options, and any other advice you guys have for beginning welders? Thank you for reading.
Reply:The two big questions are...Do you need or want to do AC tig for Aluminum.Do you have the space and power availability for a transformer machine.These are where the price difference jumps.  If you just want to do steel, and never aluminum, there are affordable multiprocess machines out there now that will Stick/Tig/Stick.Both machines listed will Tig and Stick very well.  Both transformers and, depending on which model you pick, can require upwards of 100 amps to power (sometimes even more).  Both square wave, so crisper puddle on Aluminum.  Almost all Constant Current machines (CC) will do both TIG and Stick.  You'll need a machine with Constant Voltage (CV) if you ever want to add mig to the mix.  No one in the real world makes a non-engine drive Squarewave machine that is CC and CV (I actually think Lincoln did make some super expensive one or and add on-not 100%). Miller made the Shopmaster which is CC/CV, but it's a sine wave machine that needs add ons to work correctly.  I'm of the personal opinion that a Syncro 250 (90's era) and a Millermatic 200 mig are all anyone needs in their shop if they're a hobby guy.  They would both serve you well, have limited electronics to break, and are nearly bulletproof.  You can likely get both used for around $2000-2500 and be done.Last edited by Drf255; 08-26-2014 at 05:48 AM.
Reply:We bought an older Syncrowave 250 a few years back for $850.  By the time we got a torch, flowmeter, foot pedal and water cooler, it came to around $1,400. (without gas cylinder). You might consider the Thermal Arc/TWECO 186 AC/DC TIG and Stick Welder.  Including the current $100 rebate, you can get one with a pedal for $1,710."USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:Syncrowaves are very nice machines both for tig and stick. My personal machine is a Syncro 200 at the house, and the tech school has 8 or 9 Syncro 250's we use to teach stick and tig with..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Thank you guys for the crazy fast responseI do want to weld aluminum and any other metal I can learn. I need a life time long skill to work on or I go nuts, a person needs a hobby I guess.I'm having some electrical work done in the garage, so I was thinking that upping my 240v to 60 amps would cover me up to a 200amp machine. DSW how much power do you run to your unit?I have used a Syncrowave 200 and 250 so I have a feel for their size. I'm down sizing the motorcycle collection, by my figures 3 bikes gets me at least one welders worth of space. My work bench will need some modification or I'll add a separate welding table.I had only glanced at Thermal Arc/TWECO, I'll go back and do some more reading.Thanks for your time.
Reply:Get a Thermal Arc 186.  Then buy an old Dialarc 250 stick welder for $250.-$300.  You can sit the little inverter on top of it.  Real hard to balance a little welder on a round-top Idealarc. "USMCPOP" First-born son: KIA  Iraq 1/26/05Syncrowave 250 w/ Coolmate 3Dialarc 250, Idealarc 250SP-175 +Firepower TIG 160S (gave the TA 161 STL to the son)Lincwelder AC180C (1952)Victor & Smith O/A torchesMiller spot welder
Reply:I couldn't find the TA 186 for $1,710, but $1,760 is damn close. Not to mention the thread on here about the TA 186 was a little scary, till the end, then it was sad and a little funny. I think that's my machine, may even order one today.*edit*If ever get skilled enough to add welding to my list of job skills the Thermal Arc's portability is a huge plus.Last edited by Motordad; 08-26-2014 at 03:55 PM.
Reply:Originally Posted by OldendumGet a Thermal Arc 186.  Then buy an old Dialarc 250 stick welder for $250.-$300.  You can sit the little inverter on top of it.  Real hard to balance a little welder on a round-top Idealarc.
Reply:i have an Idealarc 250/250 tig... Nice unit for tig and stick. AC/DC but using a foot pedal it would pop a 50 amp breaker. I had to go to a 100 amp and have no troubles... Deals can be had on older transformers, just make sure you have or are willing to accommodate their power needs- Christian M.C3 Welding & Fabrication - CNC Plasma Cutting-Mobile Welding-Custom welding and fabwww.c3welding.com
Reply:My Syncrowave 200 is run off a 50 amp circuit and I've never tripped the breaker even welding alum at 200 amps. The air cooled torch I use helps me keep the duty cycle down. A Syncro 250 would run on the lower end on 50 amps, but 60 would be better and to go balls to the wall, you'd want closer to 100..No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth! Ronald Reagan
Reply:Thanks for the power info DSW, I didn't realize that moving from the 200 to the 250 was such a large increase in power draw.Anything that needs 100 amps is probably off the table, but I will find out how much more it cost than adding a 60 amp 240v to the garage.
Reply:Not sure about the 200, but the Syncro 250 puts out over 300 amps of arc.If you get one with Power Factor Correction, it will blow a 50 amp breaker at IDLE.  Yes, at idle.  Remove the PFC caps, and you can go to 225 amps output on a 50.  That was my personal experience.  I have an inverter now, but I'd still go Tranny if I had the space and power.  If you're looking for a machine that will last you the rest of your life.  The bells and whistles of the new inverters are nice, but tig is 90% Indian and 10% arrow.  Zap is one of the best tig welders I've ever seen work and he does it all with a 30+ year old sine wave transformer machine.
Reply:I had a guy come give an estimate on putting in a circuit for the welder and going over 50 amps is got going to happen at a price I'm willing to pay. With the power restriction may options are:Miller Syncrowave 200Lincoln Square Wave 175Thermal Arc 186and maybe the Miller Syncrowave 180 sdI don't know much about the 180 sd, it looks like the base unit in the syncrowave line. I keep seeing the syncrowave 180 sd and 200 for nearly the same asking price on craigslist and the 200 seems to have more features, not that I want or need all the bells and whistles, but at the same price I'll take the better machine.I think that's enough of the details sorted to let me go look at machines I know I will be able to run.I'll make a post when find my future machine.Thank you to all those who responded, your input has been invaluable.
Reply:Originally Posted by AKweldshopWhats wrong with the thermal arc stick??? ...
Reply:I went with the Thermal Arc 186 because it seems like a nice machine for the money and will work with my power budget. I called a second electrician about doing the work and he seemed to think that more power was possible with little extra cost. Originally Posted by OldendumGet a Thermal Arc 186.  Then buy an old Dialarc 250 stick welder for $250.-$300.  You can sit the little inverter on top of it.  Real hard to balance a little welder on a round-top Idealarc.