Water coolers for welders

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I just bought a Miller Welder 330ST Aircrafter stick TIG AC DC and have an option for a water cooler for an extra $250. My question is if its worth getting? I'm not sure what it does. Does it help with the longevity of the machine? Also, is that a good price for it? thanks, josh
Reply:Originally Posted by josh930I just bought a Miller Welder 330ST Aircrafter stick TIG AC DC and have an option for a water cooler for an extra $250. My question is if its worth getting? I'm not sure what it does. Does it help with the longevity of the machine? Also, is that a good price for it? thanks, josh
Reply:JoshIt depends on how much tig welding you are going to do. The cooler is a closed system that allows you to put coolant into the it. The cooler pumps and recirculates the coolant from torch to cooler.  The cooler keeps your coolant at a temperature that will keep the torch cool. It is like the radiator in a car. If you aren't going to do a lot of tig welding, then you can run a water hose to your torch.  Though your water would be going down the drain after it leave the torch.If you are doing very little tig and mostly steel, then you might get away with no cooler at all.Do a search for threads describing homemade cooling systems, I seem to recall there being a couple.Compare prices on ebay.
Reply:Awesome, Thanks alot guys. The car radiator was the first thing I thought of when I first heard the term. Thanks for clearing that up.
Reply:Watercooling is for people who weld thick metals or weld for long periods at a time.
Reply:cool, thanks. He also said that it doesnt come with the tig gun and pedal. Any clue where I can get this at a decent price. Also, is there a specific one? ThanksLast edited by josh930; 11-05-2006 at 02:34 AM.
Reply:You can try ebay.If you want to weld aluminum, you should get that water cooler and a water cooled torch rated for 3-400 amps.You can probably get by with a torch rated for slightly less than your maximum current if you are not pushing the duty cycle.Make sure you get a name brand torch, I just bought a Chinese torch and it has oddball fittings on it.
Reply:Originally Posted by 76GMC1500Watercooling is for people who weld thick metals or weld for long periods at a time.
Reply:Originally Posted by josh930He also said that it doesnt come with the tig gun and pedal. Any clue where I can get this at a decent price. Also, is there a specific one? Thanks
Reply:I have a vintage Lincoln Idealarc 250 TIG/Stick. It has a home-built stainless steel water tank with a Coca Cola carbonator pump. It sure works great. If you're interested in TIG, get yourself the water-cooled torch and a tank. You'll be glad you did. Those air-cooled torches get really hot after a few minutes. Definitely, if you do aluminum, you'll want the water-cooled system. OBTW, I run 7 gallons of water to one gallon of GM Dex-cool in a 15 gallon tank. The water never even gets warm. The coolant keeps it from growing algae. You really are going to need a foot pedal, and a torch, too. I wonder why it doesn't have them from the factory?
Reply:It was a used welder I bought and I guess the owner wanted to keep them for his other welder. Do you guys have any web sites (besides ebay) If I need to get anything. Is $250 good for a water cooler/pump?Also, how about this for a tig torch.....http://store.weldingdepot.com/cgi/we...t/WP18-25.htmlDo these usually come with lines or just the torch?Is a pedal a pedal or are there differences? Does it control water flow as well?Thanks, your posting good pointsLast edited by josh930; 11-05-2006 at 04:57 PM.
Reply:Or is this package deal good. Seems a little pricey.... http://store.cyberweld.com/350ampwattig.html
Reply:Do these water coolers use a radiator and a fan or are they just a pump and a tank?   If it's just a pump and a tank, would it be wrong to use a 5 gal bucket and some kinda submersible 110v electric pump, like maybe for a fish tank?   They want like $500 and up for most of the water coolers I've seen so far.   There doesn't appear to be that much difference in the cost of the torches for air -vs- water...
Reply:To be honest with you I'm not sure. I've heard of the home made ones with a pump, radiator and fans but this guy is talking about a miller cooler which I'm not sure what it consists of. I'll have to do a search.Anyone have a recommendation on a torch?
Reply:Originally Posted by DesertRider33Do these water coolers use a radiator and a fan or are they just a pump and a tank?   If it's just a pump and a tank, would it be wrong to use a 5 gal bucket and some kinda submersible 110v electric pump, like maybe for a fish tank?   They want like $500 and up for most of the water coolers I've seen so far.   There doesn't appear to be that much difference in the cost of the torches for air -vs- water...
Reply:if the cooler that comes with the welder is the miller version and is working, get it it will save you a multitude of truble. $250 is an exelent $ for a miller cooler.yes there are diferences between the foot controles they need to be for the welder in question, or atleast the type, in order to get the conection plug and resistance corect.also tig torches are rated at 100% duty cycles and most welders are not so you can usualy get a torch rated below the welder as a 350 amp welder will usualy only be rated to 300 or less amps at 100%go to the miller site and download the owners manule and see what its duty cycle rating it and get the torch acording to that.many people even with the smaller 185 amp welders prefer the air cooled torches as it gives them smaller torches and a great deal more comfort, even the 185's get hot fast and no one wants to TIG weld in stick welding gloves.congrats on the new welder, enjoy summer is here, plant a tree for mother earth. if you dont have time or space, sponcer some one else to plant one for you.feel free to shoot me a PM or e-mail me at [email][email protected] i got lots of time.
Reply:Thanks for the congrats. Ths welder is 300 amps, 32 volts at 60% duty cycle. So would a 250a rated torch be a bit under for what the welder can push?
Reply:no i would think a 250 would be about right. if the welder is 60% at 300 then it is likely about 80-90% at 250, the toch being rated at 100% at 250 amps should do fine. the dyn200 uses a 150amp torch for the same reason. summer is here, plant a tree for mother earth. if you dont have time or space, sponcer some one else to plant one for you.feel free to shoot me a PM or e-mail me at [email][email protected] i got lots of time.
Reply:just in case you dont understand duty cycle its rated in 10 minumit cycles. so if its rated for 60% that means it can run at that amperage for 6 minuits then cool for 4 min. anything running at a 100% duty cycle can run continuesly all day as it will run for the 10min. with no cool down. as the amps climb the cycle drops. so at 350amps its reated at 40% so you can only weld for 4 min. then cool for 6min. this is based on continuose run so if you are only doing a 1 min. weld then stop to move the part and start again the duty cycle gets  reset per the cool down wile moving the part.keeping that in mind the torch being reated for 100% at 250 amps it can run hotter just for shorter times, like 300 amps at a 70% duty cycle.welders are sold by the top amps it can put out, usualy at 40% duty cycle, wile torches are rated at 100% duty cycle, well below its max.its all about the marketing of the welder manufacurers. summer is here, plant a tree for mother earth. if you dont have time or space, sponcer some one else to plant one for you.feel free to shoot me a PM or e-mail me at [email][email protected] i got lots of time.
Reply:i hope that didnt make it more confusing. =8^(-) summer is here, plant a tree for mother earth. if you dont have time or space, sponcer some one else to plant one for you.feel free to shoot me a PM or e-mail me at [email][email protected] i got lots of time.
Reply:As for the current rating, you have to look at the usage of the welder.If you are going to use it mostly for steel and never turn it past 200 amps, obviously a 250 amp torch would be fine.If you want to turn it up to 350 and weld aluminum, you will have to either get a 350 amp torch or make sure you weld at a low duty cycle, like 2 minutes welding, 8 minutes not welding.I have never timed myself, but in the welding I have done, it must have been rare for me to exceed 50 or 70% duty cycle.  I'm sure it would be different in a mass production setting, but I only did low volume general fabrication.
Reply:Thanks for the info on the coolers!   Looks like I'll go ahead and get the water cooled torch and make my own cooler to save some money!On heating up the torch and duty cycle... I've never had my MIG welder shut down on me for exceeding the duty cycle, but I have melted the torch before...
Reply:not shore how ya pulled that one off unless some one put a smaller torch on it for a special use and never put it back when you got it. lots of times people will put smaller mig guns on if they primarily do thiner work like for body repair and have truble manuvering the larger stock gun. that could be the case. or it is possible the manufacturer used a smaller gun to save $$ and went too small, this would likely not be the case with the big namers but is verry possible with some of the cheaper imports.if you make a torch cooler be shoure to use a coolant antyfreese in it as it has a anty fungus to keep the algy groth out. also a truck heater core is a nice lil raideator for the project and is only about $20 mine was $18.95 i think. do a little reserch befor you pass on the $250 cooler that could come with the welder as parts will start to add up quickly when you start buying tubbing and clamps and fittings, and fans,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, sit down draw up a plan and figure in every thing including the fittings to atach to the torch they were like $5 eack at the LWS. not trying to discurage the idea, just want you to be shore of the full $$$ tag going in. my cooler included a flow meeter to show me water was flowing threw the toch, not much $$ there the part was strait out of the miller cooler for $15 but the fittings added up fast.good luck  and be shore to show us the cooler progress as many want to do the same and extra ideas are always good. summer is here, plant a tree for mother earth. if you dont have time or space, sponcer some one else to plant one for you.feel free to shoot me a PM or e-mail me at [email][email protected] i got lots of time.
Reply:I was just going to put automotive coolant and water mixed 50/50 in a clean 5 gal bucket, drop a submersible 110v fish tank pump into it, put a lid on it with a vent hole and 2 holes for the supply hose to come out and the return hose to go in and connect the hoses to the torch.   I figured I would use whatever kind of clear plastic hose I can find at the home center or pool supply.  Would that do the trick?
Reply:i have herd the fish tank pumps dont move enough watter, try a lil pond pump like walmart sells in the garden section. summer is here, plant a tree for mother earth. if you dont have time or space, sponcer some one else to plant one for you.feel free to shoot me a PM or e-mail me at [email][email protected] i got lots of time.In the old days, all tigs had two solenoids - one for gas and one for water. The second solenoid was intended for water hose from faucet, or 'city water'. Water only cooled torch - had nothing to do with the welder - and only flowed while welding and during post flow. The most common error was to use the solenoid with a circulator - you are paying to circulate water, let it circulate - if not, pump is working into dead short in electrical terms. When not welding, that is.     If someone offered you a good circulator with stainless, radiator and Procon pump for 250.00, I would think that might be a good deal. If you have a choice of pumps, stay away from the bronze gear pumps as you are looking at a frightening cost to repair/replace pump - not to mention the irritating noise from unit. The carbon vane Procon pump can be replaced very reasonably.
Reply:Be careful about using a pool pump or machine coolant recirc. pump for torch cooling.  They generally will not produce enough pressure to push enough water through the relatively small lines and passages in the torch head to provide rated cooling.  They are designed for higher volume at very low head (pressure).  They may work for very reduced duty cycle, but then it is up to you to be sure you don't melt your torch or power cable (which is also cooled by the water, allowing the use of smaller, more flexible cable).I spent the last week visiting my daughter's family in the LA area and took a few days for my usual hunting and gathering at area surplus stores.  C&H Sales in Pasadena (www.candhsales.com) has brand new Little Giant Model 35-OM pumps that will produce higher pressure than usual for a small, centrifugal 115VAC pump.  I THINK the nominal pressure for torch cooling pumps is about 45 PSI, and this pump will produce about 35 PSI at cutoff, and about 30 PSI at 50 gallons per hour flow.  I HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT THE ADEQUACY OF THIS FOR TORCH COOLING, but I think it will be far better than a pump designed for pools or machine coolant or condensate.  Do your own research.The good news is the catalog price is $25.00.  Even better and worse news is that if you have a friend living in the area, they are (tragically) having a going out of business sale and they will sell them over the counter for half price.  I bought one for possible torch cooling purposes and they are, in fact, brand new.  I don't know how many they have in stock, but they had a half dozen out on display.  Sorry, I can't buy one for you.  I live 500 miles away.Notice that they are universal motors with non-replaceable brushes rated for 500 to 1000 hours of life.  Not adequate for a commercial shop, but probably fine for a hobbiest (that's equivalent to 1/4 to 1/2 year at 8 hours per day, 5 days a week).  Just set it up to go on with the torch trigger and timing relays so you don't let it run unattended and unnecessarily.I have absolutely no connection with C&H Sales other than being a very satisfied customer for many years.Catalog listing is at:   http://www.candhsales.biz/cgi-bin/sh...EGS.htm#PC2600Catalog listing is:   115 VAC LITTLE GIANT HIGH PRESSURE PUMP. Model #35-OM. 1.25 amp. 3/8" OD barbed ports. 4" wide x 6.9" long. Stock #PC2600 $25.00Spec sheet is at:   http://www.lgpc.com/ProductFiles/OM/993313.pdfProduct data sheet is at:   http://www.lgpc.com/ProductFiles/Spe...5168_35-OM.pdfOf course, your best bet is to use a carbonator pump like the big boys use in their commercial coolers.  But at this price, it's not much of a gamble to try out the 35-OM.awright
Reply:I just bought a used Miller Gold Star 330A/BP TIG welder with a Linde WC-5 water cooler. Questions: The water in the cooler tank is a light brown color and with rust on the cap. With winter freezes coming on should I drain the water and replenish with a 50/50 water to anti-freeze mix? Also should should I run the mix throught the unit, prior to letting it sit? I will not be using the unit for a few weeks, and don't want to risk freeze damage to the unit. Also what is the suggested cleaning method? The tank appears to be S.Steel.
Reply:Originally Posted by motogreenI just bought a used Miller Gold Star 330A/BP TIG welder with a Linde WC-5 water cooler. Questions: The water in the cooler tank is a light brown color and with rust on the cap. With winter freezes coming on should I drain the water and replenish with a 50/50 water to anti-freeze mix? Also should should I run the mix throught the unit, prior to letting it sit? I will not be using the unit for a few weeks, and don't want to risk freeze damage to the unit. Also what is the suggested cleaning method? The tank appears to be S.Steel.
Reply:Thanks, my friend.
Reply:i would also be shore to run it a bit when you put the final mix in befor putting it away to make shore you have cooler throwout the hole system befor shutting it down.also dump and rinse out the tank befor running the rinse water, you want to get as much of the rust and crap out of the tank as you can befor runnig it so you dont pump crap into the pump and lines if you can avoid it. also disconect the torch and let it shoot some clear water out befor reataching it so you dont pump crap up into the head of the torch.congrats on the new tig unit. summer is here, plant a tree for mother earth. if you dont have time or space, sponcer some one else to plant one for you.feel free to shoot me a PM or e-mail me at [email][email protected] i got lots of time.
Reply:One year the water cooler froze on my welding machine. I got it all thawed out and removed a bit more than half of the water and added pink camper/RV type anti-freeze to the system and it has been fine ever since. No cooling issues at all.
Reply:Originally Posted by alanakerOne year the water cooler froze on my welding machine. I got it all thawed out and removed a bit more than half of the water and added pink camper/RV type anti-freeze to the system and it has been fine ever since. No cooling issues at all.
Reply:Keep in mind that the 250 dollar cooler will pay for itself very quickly if you do a fair amount of welding with it. You won't use near as many consumables, collet bodies, and tungsten. Also check what coolant you are using and putting through your torch if you decide to build a cooler. Some coolants interfere with the high freq. Some may gunk up your torch more than others. You may also void your warranty either for the welder or the torch so be careful. Bill
Reply:Bill, remember that there seem to be about equal numbers of hobbiests (like me) and professional welders participating in these forums.  One of the really nice things about Welding Web is this interaction and sharing of ideas, suggestions, and interest in welding, whether for fun or profit.lots of us hobbiests lust for professional capabilities, but can't justify purchases of new equipment because the investment will NEVER pay for itself in monetary terms.  But we can justify investment of time in creating and enjoying "home-brew" equipment that does almost as good a job as brand new professional grade equipment.Can you really buy a blue or red torch cooler for $250?  Maybe I shouldn't have bought that replacement carbonator pump and rebuilt my blue cooler after all.awright
Reply:it would be werth the investment to rebuild one if given the chance. i colected the parts to build one and was close to the $200 mark, and i still have to put it togather. summer is here, plant a tree for mother earth. if you dont have time or space, sponcer some one else to plant one for you.feel free to shoot me a PM or e-mail me at [email][email protected] i got lots of time.
Reply:HI, my first post.If this is a really stupid idea, please say simply that without a lot of flame.I'd like to go water cooled. Sure I can afford the whole shebang, but my tinkering side needs itching and there are always a couple of ten dollar dehumidifiers at the local Goodwill. Radiator, fan, motor, compressor/pump, tubing and fittings, electrical...  just about everything you'd need inside to cobble something up.Does anyone know off hand any of the following?Are fittings on a water cooled torch/cable strictly proprietary?Can anyone confirm the typical gpm/psi of a commercial unit? If the compressor itself wouldn't handle water flow, a little bronze pump would fit quite nicely on the shaft of the fan motor. I realize that I'd have to bring the dehumidifier down to the nearest heating/cooling guys to have the freon removed.Like I said.  Cost isn't really the point, except that it's so satisfying  to see just what you can do with twenty five bucks sometimes - and rescue some old machine in the bargain. It would be a "cool" project.. no?   :wince:Last edited by heehaw; 01-02-2007 at 02:09 PM.
Reply:heehaw, I'm a little confused about how you propose to adapt a dehumidifier to water cooling a torch.  The small, home-type dehumidifiers I am familiar with are basically a refrigeration unit with a fan and a condensate tray.  If there is a pump in the units you are looking at, it will probably be a very low flow, low head pump to dribble away the condensate and will not be adequate to pressurize a torch.  The dehumidifier I restored had no pump - just a removable bucket.A torch cooler doesn't use a refrigeration compressor and you can't make a refrigeration compressor pump water (at least not for more than a few strokes).  Everything in the compressor from the materials to the passage sizes and valves and the hermetically sealed lubrication system are not compatible with pumping water (if that's what you had in mind), and you don't need refrigeration to adequately cool the cooling water.  In many hobbiest applications you can get along with cooling by natural air convection over the walls of a metal water tank.  If that is not sufficient for the work you do, a small fan-cooled radiator will handle the heat load.  That's what's in the commercial small water coolers/circulators.You could use the fan from a dehumidifier, but I doubt the passages in the radiator are large enough for the water flow your torch needs.  But compare the ID of the radiator tubing with the passage size in your torch to see if the radiator is at least as large. The radiator tubing is usually quite small because it only has to pass a small amount of refrigerant.I've seen others report that about 45 PSI is optimum water pressure for torches.  Check with your torch manufacturer for specs.  I mention in an earlier post of this thread an inexpensive pump that appears to me to be ALMOST as good as the carbonator pumps normally used in torch coolers, and certainly better than the garden pool pumps many guys consider.I don't know about the proprietary nature of the hose fittings, but you can buy the adapters at your local welding supply.Have fun.awright
Reply:you can get the conectors for the torch to screw into at the LWS for about $3 each its got a threaded side and a hose clamp side to atach to your cooling lines. as aposed to a dehumidifyer you might look into a humidifyer for parts but in general if you want to take the time to build one thre are many ways to do it. its not rocket sciance after all its just a tank a pump a fan and a small radeator. pipe them all togather and go for it. you can even order the flow gage for the miller cooler for $15 if you want one of them in the systen.(i did) i got my radeator from a ford truck heater core. brand new in the box $19 its about 10"X10"X2.5" its a nice size for a small cooler and it did not take long to rig up a mounting bracket compleat with a fan shroud. some where i have a set of coller plans being sold on e-bay i'll have to find them so i can give them out to guys on here that want them, heck i supose i could even list them in my store for a few $'s to get them out there at a more reasonable price them they are going for now. i dont see them as a $30 set of plans but not bad for say $10. if i had payed $30 i would have felt riped off but for $10 i think its got enough info to be werth it.i'll look for them again. summer is here, plant a tree for mother earth. if you dont have time or space, sponcer some one else to plant one for you.feel free to shoot me a PM or e-mail me at [email][email protected] i got lots of time.
Reply:Would not the following then have pretty much everything you need minusa radiator and fan? QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.com/Big-Mac-McCanns-...QQcmdZViewItem..in fact, for anything less than 200 amps, this unit itself might be sufficient without any radiator at all.Last edited by heehaw; 01-13-2007 at 06:54 PM.
Reply:yep every thing except a fitting or 2 to hook up to your torch, and yes with a 200Amp welder you would likely be fine without a raideator although it would not be hard to add one into the system. just pick up a heater core from any auto store and add it in. summer is here, plant a tree for mother earth. if you dont have time or space, sponcer some one else to plant one for you.feel free to shoot me a PM or e-mail me at [email][email protected] i got lots of time.
Reply:There are a couple of threads on coolants to use.  Cost is a concern, as well as the possibility of additives in auto antifreeze that may not be recommended for a tig cooler.  Why not just a good name brand of 2.50/gal blue windshield washer fluid?  Probably a high enough concentration of glycol to keep bacteria at bay and cheap enough to just replace once in a while when needed.
Reply:Blue windshield fluid would work but so does a dilute mixture of anti-freeze. I've been using GM Dex-Cool for more than ten years in my homemade tank.I used to use a thin solution of soluble oil because that's what the previous owner used, but I soon discovered that it will grown algae unless you use Lysol or some other similar product to kill the algae. After that I just use coolant and it works fine.Miller Millermatic 252Miller Syncrowave 200Liincoln AC-DC 225Victor O-A Set