First experience with Local Welding/Gas shop

admin

New member here.  I have only been seriously interested in welding as hobby for the past few months.  Gotten most of my welder and welding supply on Craiglist and online.  Of course, eventually I have to get welding gas some locally.   Today was my first visit to all three local welding/gas shop.  For the most part, staff are all friendly and willing to help.  I thing I did noticed was two of the three shops I visited did not have price tag on any thing in the store.  I'm not sure if this is something of a norm in welding supply retail business.  Needless to say, it's a bit difficult to make purchasing decision without asking the staff to check on the price.  Now, when it comes to gas tank exchange, it's far more complicated than I have expected.  I have my own tank that I have procure from a private seller.  Gather from the reading I have doing, blank neck ring stand the best chance of being a true COC (Customer Own Cylinder).  Therefore, I made sure the tank I have purchased does indeed have a blank neck ring.  When it comes to exchanging the tank, naturally, I expected the shop to provide a tank with blank neck ring.  This is where it got interesting.  The shop I visited did not have any tank with a blank neck ring, so they gave me a tank with neck ring embossed with "Property of XXX company".   They explained to me that neck ring marking means nothing.  No to mention, the XXX has been out of business for years.  All local gas supplier knows if a tank is mark with XXX company, it's a COC.  A quick call to another local gas shop found the second would not fill a tank with company marking on the neck ring.  A third shop responded they may fill it but there is no guaranteed.  What a mess!!!  Is there an officially policy, or common practice when it comes to exchanging tank?  Does your LWS give you a a cylinder with blank neck ring if that's what you bought in for trade?  For those of us that are only doing this for hobby buying used equipment and tank, short of looking for a tank with blank neck ring, how can I be sure the tank is indeed COC if there is a company name embossed on the tank?  Thanks!!
Reply:ASM, the neck ring is to identify the owner of the tank if it is to be rented or leased to the end user. It's a means of identifying the company's assets. The cylinders have to be kept in test to ensure they are safe and will hold the proper pressure. The label on the tank designates the last one that filled it.   If they're willing to take your cylinder in exchange for one of their tested cylinders, ask them to set you up an account, (cash or charge) so it can be documented that it's a customer owned cylinder. Then there's no real issue with the name on the neck ring unless you decide to change gas companies. If you decide to change gas distributors, there are some Linde cylinders out there that most welding distributors will accept as long as they're not out of test. If you have an account and develop a relationship with them, they may be able to set up discounts that are tied to your account number.  The larger distributors have grown by acquisition and will generally accept any cylinders from those companies that they have acquired. They should have a list of the names available.  Hope this is helpful.
Reply:Posing your location will help. Some suppliers will fill a no name on neck tank. They may require you to leave it there and come back in days when your tank is refilled. There is one by me that exchanges a no name tank for another no name tank.
Reply:Thanks for the replies.  The place I visited does fill argon gas, which is what I was buying today.  In hindsight, I should have probably insist on having them filling the tank I already own.  However, the staff appears to prefer I exchange the tank instead.  I guess it may something to do with tagging my tank for later retrieval may require additional paper works.    Who knows.    I would have been ok with waiting a few days, even weeks to avoid the entire issue altogether.   After all, this is only a hobby. I had some free time tonight to think about the whole business structure of rental gas cylinder.  Perhaps one of you could enlighten me, but doesn't all rental contract require some sort of deposit?  If so, why would it even be a concern if a customer not return the rental tank and end up selling a rental cylinder to another private buyer?  After all, if the said customer does not return the tank, he would not have been able to get his deposit back.    In effect, he just paid full price of the cylinder.
Reply:These companies are mafias. Just find ones who play nice.It's a real racket. I'm glad I no longer have to deal with that either.Bubble gumTooth pixDuct tapeBlack glueGBMF hammerScrew gun --bad battery (see above)
Reply:There is a contract and rental fee usually for X number of years (1,3,5). Consequently in 15 or 20 years you may have matched the original purchase price of that cylinder from them.Now just quit dwelling on this issue and use them as your sole supplier till you learn this system. There are LOTS of threads in here on Cylinders, read them to be enlightened!I had Praxair/Linde for years, moved a couple of times, turned in a few leased bottles, ended up working for a Company that had a really cheap rate with Airgas, swapped my Praxair and didn't look back.Now I work at a different company, my closest Airgas doesn't seem to be able to link to my Airgas account in the old town, so prices are stupid, instead I plan ahead and make the additional 12 miles to the old Airgas supplier.As far as consumables not having prices, they are a Supply store in that respect, its assumed if you walk in, you are going to buy it as it is needed for your Job which means you are going to pay whatever.Its not like Shopping between Walmart and Tractor Supply or the "Big Box" Stores for the cheapest deal on gloves, hats or helmets.
Reply:You got it right in the first place. Blank ring is customer owned. Air gas wants  to play bait and switch when they can, and sell/rotate your blank elsewhere. Once you fall for their scheme you are a captive client. Don't fall for those lies. Never give up a blank neck bottle.Most reputable LWS will exchange with a blank or fill yours. In my case Sims Welding Supply will exchange myblank neck bottle and keep the hydro dates current for free. I have only paid for a hydro once in 35 years.Last edited by shovelon; 09-04-2014 at 08:29 AM.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Y'all seem to have a tough time getting gas. Down here I drive up exchange the bottle pay and leave. I've had tons of different neck rings. Don't have a contract or anything just a cash account withe the store. All the LWS in our area have no prices on items. After buyin enough you eventually get a good idea of what stuff costs and I always spend too much when I go in.Lincoln 305gLincoln 225 tombstone More tools than I can play with at one time
Reply:Originally Posted by millerkiller88Y'all seem to have a tough time getting gas. Down here I drive up exchange the bottle pay and leave. I've had tons of different neck rings. Don't have a contract or anything just a cash account withe the store. All the LWS in our area have no prices on items. After buyin enough you eventually get a good idea of what stuff costs and I always spend too much when I go in.
Reply:I'm telling ya they know how to get my money every time. Lincoln 305gLincoln 225 tombstone More tools than I can play with at one time
Reply:Hello, asm.As a hobbiest, I understand exactly what you are saying. After 8 years I try to do business with only one local supplier. Once you rotate your tank(s) to them it is not a headache anymore. Do business with the one that doesn't mind hobby welders. Set up an account and try to buy enough they know your name. The prices can and do vary greatly from store to store, and from salesman to salesman in the same store. Once you have an account, it is identified with what your pricing is (should be) based on your volume, the weather, your hair color, or something. Kind of like airplane tickets. Don't be afraid to ask the price, and then ask for a discount. Make them tell you No.BTW, most areas consider 125 cf and smaller as customer owned and will freely exchange regardless of the neck ring. Larger bottles are usually leased and they get much more selective if they will exchange.Burt _____________________Miller Syncrowave 250Millermatic 211Miller 375 Plasma Cutter Hobart Handler 12010FtDrillBit.com
Reply:Originally Posted by millerkiller88Y'all seem to have a tough time getting gas. Down here I drive up exchange the bottle pay and leave. I've had tons of different neck rings. Don't have a contract or anything just a cash account withe the store. All the LWS in our area have no prices on items. After buyin enough you eventually get a good idea of what stuff costs and I always spend too much when I go in.
Reply:Maybe a gas supplier will chime in here. But it is my understanding that by law if an LSW does an exchange and accepts some other chain's bottle, they are by law obligated to return it to that chain. Here Airgas, or Praxair will not accept the others bottle, hence the savvy customer knows that unnamed bottles are the way to go. An account does help greatly.Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR" MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li  ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.
Reply:Never had a problem with any bottle in Colorado.    Not sure if I will have an issue when I need my General Air 255cf neck ring bottle exchanged in Nevada. Also have a 150 praxair bottle.Tiger Sales:  AHP Distributor    www.tigersalesco.comAHP200x; AHP 160ST; MM350P,  Spoolmatic 30A; Everlast PowerTig 185; Thermal Dynamics 60i plasma.  For Sale:  Cobra Mig 250 w/ Push-pull gun.  Lincoln Wirematic 250
Reply:All my cylinders have a smooth collar. My LWS fills them onsite without even taking a deep breath even though they were recently bought by Praxair - same guys still work their.Acetylene is another story. They swap my cylinders but since there is no collar it is just painted with their name. They've never given me a problem.I get my cylinders tested myself because I want to maintain possession of them.GravelThe difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference.
Reply:Originally Posted by GravelAll my cylinders have a smooth collar. My LWS fills them onsite without even taking a deep breath even though they were recently bought by Praxair - same guys still work their.Acetylene is another story. They swap my cylinders but since there is no collar it is just painted with their name. They've never given me a problem.I get my cylinders tested myself because I want to maintain possession of them.
Reply:United on Sens Rd in La PorteGravelThe difference between theory and practice is that in theory there is no difference.
Reply:Originally Posted by millerkiller88Y'all seem to have a tough time getting gas. Down here I drive up exchange the bottle pay and leave. I've had tons of different neck rings. Don't have a contract or anything just a cash account withe the store. All the LWS in our area have no prices on items. After buyin enough you eventually get a good idea of what stuff costs and I always spend too much when I go in.
Reply:Drujinin, the two stores are only 12 miles apart and one can't find your account? Ask the other store for your account number and that should solve your problem.
Reply:Originally Posted by millerkiller88Y'all seem to have a tough time getting gas. Down here I drive up exchange the bottle pay and leave. I've had tons of different neck rings. Don't have a contract or anything just a cash account withe the store. All the LWS in our area have no prices on items. After buyin enough you eventually get a good idea of what stuff costs and I always spend too much when I go in.
Reply:Sorry Jim other town is in opposite direction.
Reply:I understand it's out of your way. The two stores belong to the same company, correct? If it's the same company, they will be on the same computer system. Call the one location and get your account number that you can use at the other location that closest to you.
Reply:Originally Posted by 'StangI agree with that. I live here in MO. All you need is something to show that you bought your bottles. I bought mine from my LWS. I just take them back and exchange them when I need a refill. I have had them with all kinds of markings on the neck. No problem!  240cf bottle of argon, $45.oo out the door. No questions! Got to love it!